Originally posted by rnaa
The BIRTH CERTIFICATE, which is printed on an piece of paper is CERTIFIED. That is what makes it a CERTIFICATE. It has the Official Seal of the State
of Hawai'i. It has the signature of the authorized State Department of Health Official. That is what makes it CERTIFIED.
You mean the raised seal that is not visible at all in the picture an has ONLY been mentioned by an anonymous person working for Factcheck?
Yes we can see the bleed through of an official stamp, but we cannot see any raised seal, even the
picture on factcheck
doesn't show the seal clearly enough to prove that it
is the Hawaii seal
The Obama Campaign has had the document scanned and allowed it to be fingered and handled and photographed from several angles for the sole
purpose of transparency in the face of your doubts.
Dr. Fukino has further verified that the hospital registration still exists, and that she has verified that it lists his birth place as Honolulu
That is all that there is to certify and affirm. Period. There is nothing else that makes any sense in the context. Period.
and yet, Ron Polarik, In a phone call to Dr. Alvin Onaka, the Hawaii State Registrar and Head of the Office of Health Status Monitoring (OSHM), of
which Vital Records is a part. Dr. Ron Polarik posed as a writer doing geneology research, knowing that if he portrayed himyself as yet another
investigator seeking information on Obama's birth records, that he would be immediately shot down. Strictly speaking, he was collecting vital record
information on Obama's heritage, after all.
He proceeded to ask Dr. Onaka questions about the COLB that only he, or a manager in Vital Records, would know. These are questions that
Communications Officer, Janice Okubo does not know or anyone else not connected with Vital Records. Polarik did this as a way to corroborate his
conversation with Onaka.
Polarik asked Dr. Onaka if the COLBs are stamped using a machine or by hand. He said, "Both." Hawaii uses a machine that applies the Seal and
stamps electronically and simultaneously. That's why they appear to be placed in the same position, from year to year -- except in years where the
large Seal design is used. He said that they use a desktop Seal embosser, similar to what notaries use, but much longer, so as to place the Seal
higher up on the paper.
Polarik then asked him, "Why is the border on 2007 COLB different from the 2008 COLB, why is the Seal larger, and why is your signature stamp located
off to the side instead of directly under the Seal? He told Polarik that they alternate the Seal design and border design, and when the Seal (the
larger one) doesn't leave enough room to place the signature stamp below it, it's put off to the side. Evidently, this larger Seal is what is
applied by hand, as in every case where it has been used, the Seal impression appears in a different spot on the paper.
Then, Polarik slipped in the the following question. He asked him if Janice Okubo had confirmed that his office produced a 2007 Certification of Live
Birth, date-stamped June 6, 2007, with Obama's birth information on it, and he quickly replied:
"Absolutely not. No one in our office confirmed it."
That promptly ended the conversation as Dr. Onaka was not going to respond to any more questions from Polarik. Since then, Hawaii has not answered
anymore questions about Obama's birth record from anyone.
Furthermore, Department spokesperson Janice Okubo has made the following explanations:
So when Fukino says she has seen the original vital record, she means she has seen the original hospital document.
Why does that HAVE to be the only conclusion? There are different ways that a person was allowed to receive a CoLB in Hawaii in 1961:
1. In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were three different birth certificates that were obtainable:
a. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the
facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act
in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
b. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or mid wife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, an adult
could, upon testimony, file a "Delayed Certificate," that required endorsement on the Delayed Certificate of a summary statement of the evidence
submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing, which evidence must be kept in a special permanent file. The statute provided that the
probative value of the Delayed Certificate must be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is
offered as evidence. (See Section 57-18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in
effect in 1961).
c. If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed
before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject person) if the
Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of
the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
Just because they see a vital record does not mean they saw a hospital issued long form BC, even if they saw "A" Birth Certificate, it does not
necessarily mean that it was from Hawaii since
In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory or State of
Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth certificate for a
person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual had declared the Territory
or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.
We have seen a picture of a CoLB issued in 2007. We have 2 carefully worded statements from the State of Hawaii that reflect that there is a Birth
File and an original Birth Certificate within the file, yet we still do not know if it was a late (delayed) filing, or an unattended birth (which has
no way of being verified).
Hawaii also allows for amendings to BC's including people of foreign birth
Amended certifications of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who
already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign
When she says that original vital record says that Obama was born in Hawaii, she is saying that the computer data entry was accurate and that
an OFFICIAL CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE printed from that computer data will say that he is born in Hawai' and is therefor accurate. Therefore, the
OFFICIAL CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE issued to Obama is accurate, true, contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for
transactions requiring a birth certificate, and the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state’s current certification of live birth “as an
official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements.
Except that she never does say he was born in Hawaii in This Statement
on the Politifact site
, they even quote
The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obama's birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said.
"I guess the big issue that's being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature," Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those
things are on the back of the document. "Because they scanned the front … you wouldn't see those things."
Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received.
And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? "When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of
the embossed image through it."
Still, she acknowledges: "I don't know that it's possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents."
Of course, you may be thinking of the statement issued on 7/27/09
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the
Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing
further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
Which leads one to wonder, since we have no "official" definition of "Natural-Born Citizen" how did Fukino come to that conclusion & what evidence
was used by her to base that determination on? Could she possibly have used Senate
as her evidence?
[edit on 11/1/09 by redhatty]