AP Headline from 2004? "Kenyan-born Obama"

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Your denying several real facts in order to support your idea.

First, every citizen in this country has the constitutional right to representation. So it doesn't matter how much he is spending on lawyers defending himself. The fact is he has every right to defend himself.

Secondly, trying to forcibly remove the 4th Amendment by attempting to force the president to give the public, (people who by the way, never voted for a president in their entire life)

THEN your also still relying on the already failed argument that people when they go for jobs have to show their birth certificate in order to get that job. Well The flaw in that argument is that people do not have to show their supporting documents to everyone at the job. Only the people that are authorized to view them.

That person? Nancy Pelosi. She was the Chairman of the DNC and vetted Obama and made sure that he was constitutionally eligible. Because she sent out a statement to each and every state saying that he was eligible and each and every state accepted that affidavit as true and genuine. Obama satisfied every constitutional requirement needed to run for the office of the Presidency.

So again, why do birthers hate the bill of rights?

reply to post by whatukno


Actually my friend, employment laws are employment laws.

Constitutional eligibility is constitutional eligibility.

Your attempts to deflect from that are just that. The facts speak for themselves.

Obama is spending millions of dollars in dozens of lawsuits and not just hiring a lawyer but dozens of lawyers to keep from having to show the source document that would establish his eligibility.

Not only is it shameless but it's tacky and a sign of a real lack of class and integrity and charachter.

I can't even imagine how anyone could defend such pitiful actions from the person who is supposed to be the leader of the free world.

It's OK for a guy to have to show his birth certificate to get a job for 7.00 an hour at McDonalds mopping floors but it's beneath the man who wants to run the whole country to have to do what millions of average Americans do every year?

Yeah right.

You call that an argument. I call that insane desperation.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


He could spend his money on Mexican midget wrestling for all anyone should care. There is no proof that Obama has spent any tax payer money on his defense fees.

Like I said before, it's not like he was poor when he went into office.

Again, why do birthers want to destroy the constitution?

It's an important question because it is the fundamental flaw in the birther argument.

Thinking that Obama is guilty, because he has lawyers defending him against baseless accusations is flawed beyond all reality.

And demanding that Obama divulge personal papers without a warrant in an unreasonable search is beyond the realm of the powers of the people. It's unconstitutional it's also fascist. When it's already been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii it's just wrong to keep pressing the issue.

So again, why do birthers want to destroy the constitution?

reply to post by whatukno


Sure lets bring NAFTA into it too and talk about hiring Mexican Midget Wrestlers in a desperate attempt to deflect from the fact that:

Barrack Hussein Obama is spending millions of dollars in dozens of court cases and is hiring scores of attorneys in a desperate and failing bid to usurp the power and prestige of the office of the United States of America as a foreign born non-American and to supress his Hawaiian Birth Certificate that the State of Hawaii in 1961 allowed anyone born any where in the world to receive one whether they were born there or not.

In his case not. Which is why he is spending millions of dollars in dozens of court cases and hiring scores of attorneys to keep the Government that he is illegally running from finding out his fraud and trying him for treason and executing him.

wow, this issue is still being talked about? lol, someone are not used to loose i recon. Get over it and get on with your lifes...

www.snopes.com...

Just want to sidetrack a bit from this enlightening and exhilarating discussion with my bestest birther buddy ProtoplasmicTraveler here for a moment, to bring you something that actually has more to do with the OP than ProtoplasmicTraveler's great dissertation into why the president does not deserve bill of rights protections:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c80eabc67a7c.jpg[/atsimg]

Thanks to shug7272 we now know this article is a HOAX and that it was an addition made singularly by a publication that had some national pride in a candidate with Kenyan roots.

Back to your regularly scheduled claptrap into why birthers hate the Constitution...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by whatukno

 

... his Hawaiian Birth Certificate that the State of Hawaii in 1961 allowed anyone born any where in the world to receive one whether they were born there or not.

This is wrong and you know it. That makes it a purposeful lie.

Hawai'i could not issue such a birth certificate for at least a decade, and even then it had to list the actual place of birth. This is an unimpeachable fact and can be easily cross-checked.

It has been explained to you in this thread and probably many others.

You have no excuse to repeat this lie, it is just damaging to the credibility of your complaint and embarrassing to those on your side.

I understand there are penalties on ATS for purposeful lying. You might want to be careful not to draw attention to yourself in this manner or the moderators might see fit to take some action.


[edit on 25/10/2009 by rnaa]

reply to post by whatukno


Lovely. Now explain the other 5 papers which called him Kenyan born?
The Nigerian Observer
USAfrica
AllAfrica.com
GraphicGhana.com
The Ghana Times

The Nigerian Observer — “Americans will today go to the polls to elect their next President with Democratic Party candidate, Senator Barack Obama largely favoured to win. The Kenyan-born Senator will…”
USAfrica — “Kenyan-born OBAMA makes history…wins presidential nomination of U. S. Democratic party; eyes on White House…”
AllAfrica.com — ” Little wonder then why Kenyan-born Barack Obama, America’s first Black President…”
GraphicGhana.com — “For Ghana, Obama’s visit will be a celebration of another milestone in African history as it hosts the first-ever African-American President on this presidential visit to the continent of his birth.” The same article, with the same quote, appeared in ModernGhana.com.
The Ghana Times — “So far, the odds favour the once underdog in American politics, Obama, the African-American Senator from Illinois state. A Congressional Quarterly (CQ) politics monitored on BBC put the Kenyan born American ahead of his rivel, John McCain.”

www.oilforimmigration.org...-4027

reply to post by rnaa

I understand there are penalties on ATS for purposeful lying. You might want to be careful not to draw attention to yourself in this manner or the moderators might see fit to take some action.

What are you…the forum Gestapo?

The Certification of Live Birth is not a copy of the original birth certificate. It is a computer-generated document that the state of Hawaii issues on request to indicate that a birth certificate of some type is “on record in accordance with state policies and procedures”. And there is the problem.

Here you go…a nice website that will explain it all to you…

www.examiner.com...

The computer generated pile of nonsense of a certification of live birth would not have anything on it. It is merely a record that a real certificate exists on file. So, no, it would not have listed his place of birth on that certification, forgery or not.

Here is a little chap who was born in China and yet has a Hawaiian certification of live birth, a Chinese political leader.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.scribd.com...

reply to post by oneclickaway


African pride, Kenyan Born simply means he was born from a Kenyan. His dad WAS Kenyan. People read too much into stuff.

reply to post by whatukno

African pride, Kenyan Born simply means he was born from a Kenyan. His dad WAS Kenyan. People read too much into stuff.

Okkkkkayyyy. So, if he is American born does that mean his daddy is American?

reply to post by oneclickaway


no, daddy is still Kenyan, but believe whatever you want. I don't really care. If your going to be THAT disingenuous, there is no one in the world that can help you.

See momma was American, married to a Kenyan. However your argument is so shallow and pedantic it's an epic fail.

[edit on 10/25/2009 by whatukno]

Originally posted by oneclickaway

What are you…the forum Gestapo?

Nope, just trying to help you keep out of trouble.

The Certification of Live Birth is not a copy of the original birth certificate. It is a computer-generated document that the state of Hawaii issues on request to indicate that a birth certificate of some type is “on record in accordance with state policies and procedures”. And there is the problem.

That has nothing to do what-so-ever with whether Hawai'i could issue a Birth Certificate of any kind or of any provenance to a baby not born in Hawai'i in 1961. It is an unimpeachable fact that they could not be done. Period.

Here is a little chap who was born in China and yet has a Hawaiian certification of live birth, a Chinese political leader.

en.wikipedia.org...

www.scribd.com...

Sun Yat-sen's certificate shows that fraud can occur and did occur in the early 1900's in Territorial Hawai'i. I'll give you that.

But notice that Sun Yat-sen's fraudulently obtained certificate cannot in anyway be mistaken for anything other than an after the fact registration. It clearly states that the day of registration is 14 March 1904, 34 years after the claimed year of birth which is 1870.

Obama's certificate was registered within days of his birth. It was not registered years later.

reply to post by rnaa


My Australian friend, the desperation of your arguments grow is you slowly realize the inexplicable truth.

Intelligent people of principals, and integrity and morals who are actually well read and schooled and disciplined to the American ideals that not all people share, shall never in a million years accept the pale and cheap imitations and substitutes and the deflections aimed at condoning the crime of the century.

For some bizarre reason some people feel that something is being taken away from Obama in demanding that he legally comply and prove his eligibility with the only document that can absolutely verify his eligibility.

This document as you well have read in many of these threads in dozens of posts is not the document that was posted on factcheck.org.

This document is the original document issued in 1961 at the time and place of Obama’s birth or the recording of his birth should it turn out (as is likely it will) that he was not born in Hawaii.

Dozens of posters, in dozens of threads, have posted the laws in effect in Hawaii in 1961 that explain clearly and succinctly and undeniably that Hawaii would issue birth certificates to people not born in Hawaii up to a year after the birth in an other place than Hawaii as long as they met Hawaii’s residency requirements at the time a Birth Certificate was requested for the infant not born there.

For readers who do not understand why Hawaii had this unique law it is because ancestral indigenous Hawaiians are closely linked by blood and culture to American Samoa. Hawaii was settled by the Samoans who were a sea faring people centuries and centuries ago and have retained strong cultural and familiar ties with Samoa ever since.

Many indigenous Hawaiians split there time between the islands of Hawaii and the islands of Samoa. One is an American State (Hawaii) and one is an American Territory (Samoa). There is a huge difference between a State and a Territory legally, inquire with the people of Puerto Rico about this for more details.

Many children born to indigenous Hawaiians once an independent nation ruled by a Monarchy are born outside of Hawaii and not just in Samoa and American Samoa as they are as I mentioned a sea faring and at times a wandering nomadic peoples.

It is for this reason that Hawaii adopted this law that would allow children born anywhere in the world to later receive an Hawaiian Birth Certificate as long as the birth was registered with the State of Hawaii within a year of the actual date of the birth and other certain Hawaiian residency restrictions were met and applied.

The only form, and once again this has been established as fact in multiple threads here on ATS that would list his actual true place of Birth is only the actual original form that was issued in 1961-1962. This is known as the Long Form or Certificate of Live Birth form.

Obama did not post, and has not posted his original long form Birth Certificate on any web site or revealed it to any entity. The form he posted on factcheck.org is a computerized short form Birth Certificate that was altered on it’s face to render unreadable certain identification numbers pertaining to the file. Not only would this form not adequately display the actual details recorded in 1961-1962 because it is a much more detailed and data intensive form, it would not accurately display whether he was someone actually born in Hawaii or just given an Hawaiian Birth Certificate up to one year later after his parents of record met residency requirements.

Why certain posters who are well aware of this choose to ignore this time and time again to point to a facsimile copy of a form that has long been established factually of not accurately conveying the actual data that is on the long form original birth certificate is beyond me.

I will say that it reeks of desperation and is not a scholarly attempt to deal with this issue but a highly emotional politicized attempt to dismiss an issue which is vitally important not only to Americans and it’s national security and sovereignty but people around the world because of America’s economic and military might and dominance of the international world.

I don’t care about Barrack Hussein Obama’s feelings, or yours, I care about the truth. All honest people of integrity do.

The truth is Obama is spending millions of dollars, yes millions of dollars, in dozens of lawsuits and retaining scores of attorneys to keep from showing the one and only original source document that would end this controversy once and for all.

Yet his supporters rather than urge him to act with dignity and integrity and to disclose this all important never before seen or displayed document instead seek to tar and smear and sully the good sense and integrity of those who know where there is smoke there is fire and no one spends millions of dollars to suppress a document unless the document is damning and reveals details that would undermine their own credibility, integrity and eligibility to hold office because that document would display irrefutably someone has lied.

Do you want a liar for a President? Do you want a foreign born person who is a liar as a President? One can only imagine why someone would want either.

It is truly amazing that people who claim Obama has nothing to hide would stoop to such levels to try to confuse and dominate a simple matter with degrading rhetoric as a means to advocate not having to show a simple document that millions of average Americans do each year to obtain a wide variety of jobs.

That someone could perversely construe that simple standard request for information and full disclosure into an argument that labels the honest, and upstanding, who know truth has not yet been served some kind of fringe element labeled with a degrading group name bespeaks of a form of brainwashing and control all to indicative of divide and conquer warfare.

You sir, fight for your Master, I sir fight for Justice and Truth.

I am a free man, I am an American citizen, that means something to those who truly are.

Imitations and cheap knockoffs show and tell.

So does spending millions of dollars to hide the document that would establish someone as an American or not.

For some reason you seem to imagine I am your enemy, when in fact all your arguments seem to indicate truth is your enemy.

For all you are advocating for is that the one document that would establish the truth never see the light of day.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fb49f4207a0b.jpg[/atsimg]

I swear we need this warning! Round and round endlessly with the same failed argument. GAH! It's like beating your head against a brick wall. Sure it's fun, but it causes brain damage.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by rnaa

 

blah...blah...blah

The only form, and once again this has been established as fact in multiple threads here on ATS that would list his actual true place of Birth is only the actual original form that was issued in 1961-1962. This is known as the Long Form or Certificate of Live Birth form.

blah...blah...blah

You are really obstinate in your misunderstanding of how the world works, aren't you?

The Certified Copy also shows the 'actual true place of Birth'. "Certified Copy" means the information is certified to be accurate by the authority issuing the Certificate. The Hawai'i Department of Health is the authorized legal authority in this case.

It is legal and sufficient proof of a persons birth details in every legal jurisdiction on the planet. It is legal and sufficient to prove that President Obama is a natural born citizen.

What combination of words is going to satisfy you about this? I know your world view demands that you will continue to think there is something nefarious going on, but have you lost all contact with the ability to reason at all critically?

You boast of many threads and posts and blogs pushing this barrow, but there have been just as many pointing out your mistakes which you refuse to acknowledge.


So here is yet another combination of words detailing the exact meaning of what the word 'certificate' or 'certification' means: A Certification is not a Certificate

And the same guy gives it another go in When is a Certificate not a Certificate

Finally, how about Hawai'ian law relating to information held by the Hawai'ian Department of Health:

§338-13

(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.
(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health.

Playing with 'certification' and 'certificate' as words that code for something legitimate or not is plain silly. A 'certificate' is a document that certifies something. A certification is the act of certifying something. The President's release document is BOTH a Certificate and a Certification by those definitions and it SAYS so. In plain English. It is printed on security paper. It has an embossed raised seal. It is the final word from the State of Hawai'i and is recognized as such by every State, Territory, and Court in the United States, and internationally.

There is NOTHING more 'real'. There is NOTHING more 'valid'.

I come to the conclusion that your are expressing the commonly acknowledged symptoms of delusion: "A false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary.

I honestly hope that you are discussing this with your analyst.

Well this goes to prove how the MSM is able to control the American public's thinking . People are so brainwashed now , that they would actually question the reporter's intentions of this article or being completely misinformed.

reply to post by rnaa


Actually my friend I know precisely how the world works! Always have. I was raised outside of the box. I never bought into the governmental and religious programming and brain washing.

Most of the things you and the majority of people believe in I have always considered falicies and fictions.

Amazingly, astoundingly, here we all sit the world over, in a deliberately orchestrated economic crisis. Unemployment has not been this high in decades and decades. The national debt is trillions upon trillions of dollars thanks to two questionable wars that are still on going where millions of innocent people have been made to suffer and die for the acts of a couple dozen criminals who weren't even from their nations. The wealthiest people in America are the preferred stock holders and owners of our biggest banks and the poorest Americans are being made to pay for their bad and dishonest business practices thanks to the politicians in Washington. The Patriot and FISA Acts allow warrantless unconstitutional spying, and searches and arrests of Americans...

Yet for some reason you think I have a warped world view?

What ever is in that Kool Aide has got to, to got to be some powerful stuff.

To top it all off the person running the whole show (supposedly) (not) has rumors from his own family and the African Press that he was actually born in Kenya and the guy is spending millions of dollars, in dozens of lawsuits, to keep from having to show the Birth Certificate that would prove it.

I have absolutely no idea, as in zip, zero, none, how any rational, sentient human being, who wasn't dropped repeditively on their head as a child thinks everything is just hunky dorry and there isn't a huge problem and it has to do with a level of corruption and lies that truly does boggle the imagination, to take a nation as prosperous and free as America once was into this Orwellian nightmare of poverty and war, and unemployment and debt that it has become.

Hey I guess if you like the guy who is running the country's smile or something none of that matters.

One thing is for sure, you sure can't point to one darn thing he's done to make America any more prosperous or freer for the people.

In fact you can't even point to his real birth certificate.

Because he hides it behind teams of lawyers at a cost of millions of dollars.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fb49f4207a0b.jpg[/atsimg]

I swear we need this warning! Round and round endlessly with the same failed argument. GAH! It's like beating your head against a brick wall. Sure it's fun, but it causes brain damage.

Only one thing friend. I am not arguing, I am demanding that the constitution be upheld. Very similiar to dozens of litigants, in scores of lawsuits where the President is hiring teams and teams of attorneys at a cost of millions of dollars to keep from having to show the one document that is vital to him being elligble for office.

I think I would rather be called a birther than a TRAITOR.

Treason is an ugly thing my friend, so is a leader with skeletons in his closet to hide.

Are you a big Richard Nixon fan too?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Only one thing friend. I am not arguing, I am demanding that the constitution be upheld.

In order to do that, you must also understand the constitution, particularly the bill of rights, and specifically the 4th Amendment, and the 6th Amendment, both of which your argument fails to protect.

Very similiar to dozens of litigants, in scores of lawsuits where the President is hiring teams and teams of attorneys at a cost of millions of dollars to keep from having to show the one document that is vital to him being elligble for office.

We already been here and discussed this, he is eligible, and he has shown a document that is perfectly legal for him to prove eligibility.

I think I would rather be called a birther than a TRAITOR.

Treason is an ugly thing my friend, so is a leader with skeletons in his closet to hide.

I can envision your world.

Treason is punishable by summary execution, report all treason immediately.

Quickly followed by,

False accusations of treason are themselves treason punishable by summery execution. Report all treason immediately.

then.

Rumors are treason punishable by summery execution, report all rumors immediately.

Fun world.

Are you a big Richard Nixon fan too?

Nixon's accomplishments while in office included: ERA (Equal Rights Ammendment), ending segregation, revenue sharing, ending the draft, new anticrime laws, started the process of ending the Cold War, recognized and fought against foreign oil price gouging, and implemented a broad environmental program (he is largely responsible for the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency). He was the only President to achieve a balanced national budget between 1961 and 1998.

Some of his most acclaimed achievements came in his quest for world stability. During visits in 1972 to Beijing and Moscow, he reduced tensions with China and the U.S.S.R. His summit meetings with Russian leader Leonid I. Brezhnev produced a treaty to limit strategic nuclear weapons. In January 1973, he announced an accord with North Viet Nam to end American involvement in Indochina. In 1974, his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, negotiated disengagement agreements between Israel and its opponents, Egypt and Syria.

wiki.answers.com...

Except for that Watergate thing, Nixon was pretty cool. (for a Republican)