AP Headline from 2004? "Kenyan-born Obama"

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Nothing like the notion of Innocent until proven guilty eh? Better strip him of his 4th amendment right so that you can take his personal papers without a warrant.

Ohh better yet, kill off the 5th amendment so he has to spill his guts!

Better then get rid of the 6th amendment too, no need for that fair speedy trial crap right?

And might as well throw out 7 just for the fun of it.

Oh and you got to get rid of 8 cause afterward your going to want to punnish him BAD for what he did to you aren't you?

reply to post by whatukno


He was the one that wanted to be President of the United States and now that he is, he does not want to have to prove his eligibility that he failed to prove before, during or after the election.

That he chooses not to disclose the information that is constitutionaly required to hold the Office of the Presidency is his poor and irresponsible and damaging to his credibility decision.

The fact that he is hiring scores of lawyers to avoid having to meet evidentiary standards of being eligible for office is rather odd since he wanted the office.

Most jobs do have certain documentation requirements and he is not being asked to do anything millions of Americans don't also routinely do every year to obtain jobs.

Your arguments of blaming the people for his failure to do what is proper and lawful and that there naturally are repercussions legally as well as to his credibility is placing the blame on the wrong shoulders.

These are his failures and decisions and he knew that their were standards that had to be met entering into it.

Obviously he is hiding something since millions of Americans do routinely reveal this information for employment all the time.

For a man who signed the Patriot Act and the Foreign Intelligence Service Acts twice authorizing warantless wiretapping, warantless searches, and secret courts all based presumably on the public's need to be protected by knowing information at all costs, it seems rather silly and even more circumspect he could authorize spying on American people but not having to disclose his own information regarding eligibility for office.

Funny that he would claim some unconstitutional right to privacy in this regard when he has twice signed away constitutional privacies for the American People.

Hard to believe anyone would defend such a hypocrite.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Ok how about this for an explanation?

Look how you already have found him guilty without trial?

That alone would make me want to have legal representation to make sure I was protected.

I along with hundreds of millions of Americans accepted the short form BC as it was given, we feel that it is valid and satisfies any doubt in our minds that he is eligible for the job.

Meanwhile only .015% of the country begs to differ.

and the majority is supposed to bend to the will of the minority, taking with it the protections offered under the bill of rights.

I love your logic, it almost compares to Wukky logic. It's close.

Originally posted by vkey08
Well isn't this the pot calling the kettle... Politifact is just as biased as every other "news" organization out there.

Factchecker proves your theories wrong, you push them out as bias. Politifact does the same, you fellas mark them out as bias. Virtually any factchecking website that doesnt agree to your conspiracies, is bias. Yes, WND, which has proven to be factually misleading time and time again you fellas continue to use to the core of your conclusions.

Im sorry, its not the "pot calling the kettle black". I dare you to go onto politifact and find how many misleading and factually incorrect articles there are. You get back to me you hear.

Yet you seem to think since it's from them it MUST be the truth.

So your saying the statements from the Hawaiian state health officials, which have never been denied by any of them, are not real? How did you come to that conclusion? Fukino has made numerous statements, backed up not just by politifact but the Hawaiian star bulliten and numerous other media outlets. She has made these statements and never went back on them. Are you saying theres some vast conspiracy involving all these newspapers and Hawaiian state officials?

But who owns them?

The question isnt "who owns them", the question is "who you speculate" and as to "what you speculate".

SG

Wow, and like a miracle sent from above, someone, somewhere is able to do a search on Archive.org and find the magic article from, I'm sure, a rigorously vetted and completely above board news publication from Kenya, Africa, that clearly shows Obama was born in Kenya.

Yep, there it is in black and white. There's no way that date, which clearly shows Sunday, June 27, 2004, could have been manipulated and Archive.org compromised in some way.

I guess we just need the DOJ to print this article and get with the legal proceedings. This fraud has gone on long enough.

Seriously? Are people this easily manipulated?

Did the entire U.S. government forget to do a background check on the president? Well, I guess there's always a first, right? What?

No one who's spent any time at this or any other conspiracy site has any excuse for not seeing this as just one element in a well-funded effort to delegitimize and stir up a grass roots movement against Obama using every trick in the book.

I am on board that the U.S. government - all governments should be razed and replaced with something built from the ground up. The whole mess stinks.

And I was on board with everyone who wanted Bush out - for obvious reasons (for the folks who didn't, the intellectually infantile clearly fed off the media teat with a glassy-eyed contentment).

There were hundreds of individuals very high up in the U.S. government who petitioned The House Judiciary Committee to impeach him.

Were these intelligent and highly placed people misguided in attacking their own administration, and our saintly figurehead, the patriotic and unerring father Bush right as always?

It's amazing how the president is never wrong; that you can amass great numbers of the most highly placed, principled and intelligent people before the House Judiciary Committee to argue for the president's impeachment and still have people thinking these people are wrong in favor of daddy Bush.

This must be the aspartame, flouride, chlorine and msg talking. People couldn't clearly be this mislead...

But for those who don't simply unthinkingly change with the media tide, the playing field had changed when Obama took office.

My desire to see government removed and replaced (if at all) with a model more in harmony with universal principles and our needs as a society has not diminished. And in fact I see this happening soon.

However, I have not simply gobbled up every news item critical of the government simply because it's "critical of the government."

This is where critical thinking comes in - the same thinking that existed when I railed against the Bush administration when so many were taking their media injections like a good slave robot.

Anyone worth their salt in the conspiracy circles will tell you that Obama is different. Does this mean I worship, or defend him at every turn? No. In this case, I am not defending Obama - I am defending critical thought.

The word "discernment" has become so overused it's virtually lost all meaning, but it really is true. The people who are really critically thinking are those who can go against what appears to be a prevailing conclusion based on what they see as truth.

On the Internet (and Fox News, which undermines the argument right there) there seems to be a foregone conclusion that Obama isn't American-born.

And what is this conclusion based on? Really, what is it based on? You have to ask yourself where it truly originated and what has gotten people so stirred up.

From where I sit, and what I've read, it is the culmination of intimations peppered throughout the Internet by a well-funded program and taken viral, but with no real substance. If you go far enough to the source articles and vet that so-called evidence you come up pretty much empty handed.

In the end, what you have is a very suspect, but ultimately empty disinformation program that most just don't feel interested in exercising their intellect enough to see.

Keep eating...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by rnaa

 

The fact remains the same the President of the United States is AFRAID to REVEAL his true and original long form birth certificate which is the ONLY VALID LEGAL DOCUMENT that actually displays where, when and who he was born.

No it isn't. The form that has been made public shows exactly that.

It also is the only thing that would have THUMB, FINGER PRINTS AND FOOT PRINTS to establish he is even Barack Hussein Obama the one that was allegedly born in Honolulu in 1961 though NO ONE HAS SEEN actual credible proof of that.

OK, so it has been demonstrated beyond doubt that you are full of # so you have now upped the ante? If fingerprints are demonstrated are you going to demand to test the placental fluid?

For all we know the real child was killed at birth and this is a total fictitious identity and the man masquerading as the President is actually somebody else later planted by a clandestine intelligence organization.

So you have been claiming that every other candidate and president has provided more proof that Obama since day one. Did Bush show his foot prints? Did McCain? How do we know that they aren't impostors?

How do we know YOU aren't an impostor.

So far all his acts have been unconstitutional and it does appear as if he is trying to dismantle the United States, bankrupt it and to sign away it’s sovereignty in international treaties.

You have an extremely immature concept of what the Constitution says and what President Obama is or is not doing. You really should learn to read a variety of commentary and sort out how to think for yourself. Parroting professional party disinformation hacks is a complete waste of ATS'ers time.

All his acts are unconstitutional? There is no evidence that Obama is even considering anything remotely resembling an unconstitutional act.

Here you reveal your personal agenda. You aren't trying to find out if his BC is real or not, it is irrelevant to you. You have already decided that you don't want Obama as President and it doesn't matter how much proof is offered, you won't believe it under any circumstances, because it doesn't advance your preconceived prejudice.

But where was your outrage when Bush and the Republicans pushed through the Patriot Act? That piece of # is the greatest attack on the Constitution ever.

I would say there is excellent circumstantial and anecdotal evidence that he is part of a massive conspiracy to destroy the United States of America...

Can you enlighten us as to how you came to this conclusion? Sources? Even one source? What circumstantial evidence? What anecdotal evidence? Why are you bothering to talk our of your rear orifice?

, and the American People have every right to demand to see the document that either establishes him as Lawful Natural Born Citizen and the person his Birth Certificate proclaims or does not establish him as a Natural Born Citizen and who he claims to be and renders him ineligible to occupy the office he therefore would have usurped through fraudulent means.

There is only one thing that would suggest that is not actually what is transpiring and that would be the ORIGINAL unaltered document signed by the ATTENDING PHYSICIAN at the TIME OF BIRTH with the child’s identifying marks (thumb, finger, and foot prints) and a RAISED SEAL, signed by the duly empowered authorized official for the State of Hawaii in 1961.

No, the American People DON'T "have every right to demand to see the document" that you claim will answer your questions. The American People have Elected Representatives to whom that responsibility belongs. And that responsibility is defined in the Constitution and the laws of the 50 States.

Anything less simply leaves to many unanswered questions and does not meet the evidentiary threshold to establish all the facts.

Intelligent and responsible citizens would want to verify and see this especially in light of the President hiring dozens of attorneys to suppress this evidence in dozens of lawsuits that have been filed demanding this information.

Not dozens of lawyers. But if he is being sued, no matter how vexatiously, he needs lawyers, if only to file for a Summary Judgment.

Those lawsuits will fail by the way, every single one of them, and probably in a Summary Judgment for the defendant. So it is you that is forcing the waste of taxpayers money. And they will all fail because of one simple CONSTITUTIONAL fact: the Courts have no Constitutional authority to consider or rule on the eligibility of the President. NONE. Nada. Zip. The closest the courts come to having anything to do with the President's fitness for holding office is during an impeachment trial.

All things considered, the extraordinary times we live in...

Not that extraordinary actually. America has had worse times, and stranger times. Peace and quiet is rather extraordinary in fact.

...and the radical socialist and bankrupting policies being carried out daily in Washington I would dare say every soul on the planet wants to see this information revealed and in deed people around the world have questions regarding this not just here.

It would seem friend your opinion is one held by the irresponsible members of society who get their facts from the media court of public opinion which is neither a factual source of credible information nor a Court of Law.

I am getting my opinion from life experience, reading a variety of opinions over time, and learning how to filter # from shine-ola. And you are getting your silly clueless ideas straight from paid party disinformation hacks press releases. You are being controlled dude, in fact, as Bob Dylan said:

It's a wonder that you still know how to breathe.

Critical minds need to see evidence, not social commentary.

Critical minds need to study differing opinions with an open mind, understand basic logic and possess a strong bull# filter. When you learn how to stop parroting the paid disinformation hacks and start thinking for yourself, let us know.

[edit on 19/10/2009 by rnaa]

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
... On the other hand I have some evidence to show in this regard, the petition signed by 477,331 people:

www.wnd.com...

We, the undersigned, assert our rights as citizens of the United States in demanding that the constitutional eligibility requirement be taken seriously and that any and all controlling legal authorities in this matter examine the complete birth certificate of Barack Obama, including the actual city and hospital of birth, and make that document available to the American people for inspection.

What don't you understand about the fact that "all controlling legal authorities in this matter" have examined "the complete birth certificate of Barack Obama, including the actual city and hospital of birth". They have certified its existence, its accuracy, and made everything they are permitted, and more than they are required, available to the American people for inspection.

Just admit that it isn't about the BC. Its about your personal political prejudice. No amount of proof will satisfy you, because you have all the proof.

You continue to tilt at windmills simply because you can.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


actually the question IS in the end who owns them. I left the media outlet I worked for because they changed hands and the new owners were more concerned with ratings and standing than integrity, in fact I got out of that side of the media altogether because of the extreme bias one way or the other that has formed over the past 8 or so years.

Factcheck is owned and operated by who? The Annenberg Project, well while I love the work they do, in recent times they have not exactly been without their bias either. And there in-lies the basis for the statement I made some posts back. "Somewhere in the middle of the two sides is the truth." Unfortunately, in this case, the sheer fact that millions of dollars of MY money (my = taxpayers of the USA) are going to defend, conceal, and intimidate, speaks more volumes than a photo of a document on the internet that could easily have been doctored.

Now.. do I think there is a conspiracy of a lot of people to conceal this? No, I think it's a conspiracy of two very good con artists, who didn't think they could get caught, or are too confident in themselves to think they would ever get caught. As others have stated this whole issue could just be put to rest with the transparency he promised.

In the end remember, as an American Citizen he works for you or me and we have the RIGHT to question when 2+2 ends up equaling 5...

It doesn't matter where he was born...

JUST LOOK AT WHAT HE IS DOING! (AND NOT DOING).

Originally posted by bl4ke360

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by Scooby Doo

 

And this proves what? Its another personal assumption from another author of another newspaper.

What would have prompted the author to say Obama was born in Kenya? Are you saying he just "assumed" he was from Kenya for no reason as he wrote that article? Wouldn't he have gotten the facts straight before it was finalized?

[edit on 10/15/2009 by bl4ke360]

Journalist getting the story right before going to press:
The woman who claim a black man carved a backwards "B" in her face.
The woman who drowned her kids and claimed a black man hijacked her car with them in it.
Who ate what here? The press or the people? Truth be told, both did because the people are proving to be more gullible as the day wears on.
Proving once again that people don't want the truth, they just want their way.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I am not running for President of the United States nor is my citizenship in question.

No, but you are posting "facts" on ATS that supposedly validate your case against the president, and your credibility is being questioned. I have asked you for evidence of those "factual" statements in this post and you REFUSE to be forthcoming. Either your credibility is ZERO, or you're hiding something.

At this point, I don't care which it is. But nothing you say is relevant until you can back up your statements. Until then, your case against the president is meaningless and your actions hypocritical.

Just show me where you got your information. That's all I'm asking!

reply to post by vkey08


Sorry to butt in, but 2+2 does=5, the reason? Neither two is able to bond with the other two without help from the outside. (objects at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an outside force) So the outside object while not affecting the equation in formula does exist as a 1 so therefore all equations must include the 1 automatic addition. Blame Newton not me.

Did Obama release a true verified copy of his COLB? Yes in fact he did. Does Hawaii have the vaulted long form? Yes they do? Do you have the right of access to personal papers and effects of a citizen without due process or a search warrant? No you don't.

Originally posted by DelMarvel
After well more than a year of intense accusations of Obama being born in Kenya and this obviously smoking gun appears only now? And appears seemingly simultaneously on all the usual suspect websites?

I wouldn't be reading a conspiracy website if I wasn't inclined to be a little skeptical of that just on its face value.

It's been 8 years since 9/11 and new info continues to be uncovered. Obviously, people are now interested in Obama's birthplace and the issue is picking up speed. It would be normal for new info to turn up as people started digging.

Obama's birth might not have been a big issue normally -- but this joker is obviously a left-wing extremist surrounded by seriously messed up 'advisors'. His foreign birth might go a long way to explain his communist influence. It also means that all Americans are in a position to be *greatly harmed* by the collusion of our political parties to allow this man to gain our highest office.

If he is not qualified, every single one of his actions are illegal.

reply to post by oneclickaway


OK, I was clearly guessing. Nevertheless, you are right. That makes the time between that visit and his birth even longer. So, if he was sitting outside a hut visiting his family in 1988, imagine how primitive it was 27 years earlier. (That looked like a fairly new hut to me)

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Let me repeat this once more for you.

Yes, please do repeat all the statements that you continue to base your case on without even one shred of evidence to back them up. That should do it.

I defy you to show me a quote from anyone who holds official office in Hawaii who has said he was born there.

You have the nerve asking for proof! Here it is:

Source

I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai?i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen.

reply to post by Scooby Doo


I say who cares! HE'S OUR President and it's a world government now anyway. New World Order means the whole world is up for grabs.

Hell, Bush was from Texas, which isn't part of the U.S.!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Once again the short form birth certificate does not state he was born in Hawaii or where he was born.

Yes it does! Maybe you should take a look at it. It says:

City, Town or Location OF BIRTH: Honolulu,
Island OF BIRTH: Oahu
County OF BIRTH: Honolulu

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I am not here to answer questions.

Clearly. You're here to make unfounded and false accusations and refuse to back them up while all around you evidence is being presented that you totally ignore.

That question is what is on the original document and why will the President not show what is on the original document and is instead hiring lawyers to keep from having to show it.

Here's the answer. It's none of your business. Deal with it.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
For all we know the real child was killed at birth and this is a total fictitious identity and the man masquerading as the President is actually somebody else later planted by a clandestine intelligence organization.

Oh_My_God!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It does not matter what your opinion is friend. In a court of law your contentions would count as third party heresay and pure speculation.

That describes everything you've said in this thread!

reply to post by whatukno


On that you are correct, but the courts through the due process (and I sincerely hope one way or the other it IS the courts that decide this) DO have the right to ask to see that document. And then.. it's a matter of public record and would fall under FOIA.

There has always been a double standard when dealing with public servants, what records are public and which aren't. Applying the general workplace rule, if you go for a job, your employer has a right to ask to see certain things, a Birth Cert is one of those things. Since public servants work for us, the public, we would have the right to ask to see the documentation, we are in fact his employers, all however many millions of us. So that's another blow to the "we don't have a right to see it" argument..

Now I'll let everyone here on a secret since someone decided to send me a nasty private that stated I was a racist. I would have voted for Colin Powell in a heartbeat and not thought twice about it, I think he would have been the better man for the position . Did vote for Obama? NO I did not, why? He didn't share my views on a great many things, that's the bottom line on that. Am I embarrassed that he is my President, damn straight.. He's done nothing since he got in that he promised to do, and this COLB thing is just a small part of why I feel the man should be removed from office by the DUE process immediately.

I'm not just a dumb blond girl that is arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm a semi-educated (I don't know all that there is to know) woman who is genuinely concerned that we may be on the cusp of something a heck of a lot more sinister. Also remember I believe that Barack and his wife are con artists, and the best con artists can fool most everyone for a good amount of time. I do NOT believe and will state this again, that this is a well masterminded conspiracy of many officials and others to deceive, but rather the delusional con of a couple of people that thought they could get away with it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Nice try BH, I see you looked long and hard for an obscure online News Source for your all important quote. Very similar to the obscure online news source that this story about him being Kenyan born appears in that you Have been arguing is probably just a misprint.

Here is what’s not just a misprint, the blog you attribute this alleged statement to does not even have a time or place that this statement was supposedly made.

Further the statement is not being made under oath with penalty of perjury attached.

It is inadmissible in a court of law and obviously was not rendered in a court of law. It is simply another desperate ploy that a frightened Administration that hides the real document behind teams of lawyers and tries to quash everyone of the dozens of court cases that would require the actual original certified document and all statements regarding it be given under oath and penalty of perjury.

All you have uncovered is proof of a blog. I would like to say that I do believe blogs exist!

They though are not a substitute for Courts of Law and Certified Original Signed Documents presented in their physical form and statements given by people under Oath with penalties of Perjury attached.

Once again you keep asking for people to lower there standards down to a dangerous level where improperly sourced statements on blogs suffice as the same kind of evidence a Constitutionally empowered Court of Law is the only definitive source for.

I am sorry your leader has let you down so and is acting so scared and is afraid to reveal the actual document through proper channels. That’s on him not me though and I know based on your feelings towards him that it is very frustrating and disheartening that he has proven to be such an irresponsible leader.

I feel for you buddy really I do, but that link to an obscure blog to a improperly sourced statement given allegedly by a political appointee (any one remember Katherine Harris and the 2,000 election, I bet you do BH, she at least had to certify and seal the results and do it in a certifiable way) does not suffice as evidence of anything except of a blog.

Thanks.


[edit on 19/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The Hawaiian dept of health had stated that there are no existing long forms held by them.
They then were forced to retract that lie and state that all paper long form original certificates are held securely. The only proviso being that SINCE 2002 hospitals electronically transmit that birth information to them. (Just a little misunderstanding...haha).

The Hawaiian dept of health had stated that they did not hold divorce records.
They were then forced to retract that lie and state that they do indeed hold divorce records, the only proviso being that SINCE 2002 those records are held by the judiciary. (Just a little misunderstanding...because their website was wrong...hahaha)
(Don’t ask me for the link, I gave it to you before on another thread)

They have stated that he is a ‘natural-born American citizen.’ That statement would actually infringe the privacy laws of the state, even if it were true. They are now claiming ‘attorney client privilege’ for withholding the reasons for the Attorney General approving said statement. As this statement was a public press statement no attorney client privilege applies.

naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com...

Seeing how they twist the truth, they probably mean that he was naturally born in that it was not an assisted delivery, and that he is an American citizen (because of course they did not understand the request…hahaha).

And as everyone invokes the vagueness or complications of the constitution in defining what constitutes being a natural born citizen (without a hyphen) , why is everyone so happy to have that defined by the Hawaiian dept of health, without any proof?

So when the dept of health has been proven to have lied, or obfuscated purposefully to deflect a request for information, does that not show you that there is indeed a cover up and an unwillingness to tell the truth? Why would that be, other than to either hide something, or to not wish to be forced to disclose something they may have been pressurised not to disclose?

This whole thing stinks to high heaven. If it is true, not only will he be marched out of the white house, but will no doubt be jailed for the family tradition of fraudulent use of ssn's.
It is interesting too that his defence lawyers (paid by taxpayers money...but of course he has nothing to hide) have never stated that he is eligible and that it is proven. Their argument is who can prove that they have been harmed by his presidency (whether he is eligible or not). Interesting.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I am not running for President of the United States nor is my citizenship in question.

No, but you are posting "facts" on ATS that supposedly validate your case against the president, and your credibility is being questioned. I have asked you for evidence of those "factual" statements in this post and you REFUSE to be forthcoming. Either your credibility is ZERO, or you're hiding something.

At this point, I don't care which it is. But nothing you say is relevant until you can back up your statements. Until then, your case against the president is meaningless and your actions hypocritical.

Just show me where you got your information. That's all I'm asking!

Sure BH since you want proof that Obama has not revealed his long form birth certificate here it is_________________________________see proof of nothing is nothing. Since he has done nothing and nothing creates nothing the only thing that overrides a contention that someone has done nothing is for the person who imagines something was done to prove that something was done.

I have stated that the well known fact that Obama refuses to show his long form original Birth Certificate is a fact.

Since he has not shown it here is the proof that he has done nothing______________________notice the nothing, because there is nothing.

Now if you can prove he has shown his long form Birth Certificate which is the ONLY document that establishes lawfully where he was born feel free to insert it in this__________________________here.

Just because you are drawing a blank on how to counter the fact that Obama is afraid to show his original long form Birth Certificate and is hiding behind teams of attorneys fighting court case after court case to not have to show it is no reason to personally question my integrity.

I am not the person trying to skirt election laws.

The fact that you want to try to make Obama's lack of action and dishonorable actions about me instead of him smacks of the kind of difficult position his dishonesty has left his loyal supporters in.

I feel for you buddy really I do, but that's on him not on me.

Evidentiary standards have not been met and that is a fact!

________________________________________________

Nothing from nothing is nothing.
You got to have a Birth Certificate if you want to lead me!
Da da da da da de de da da
Come on set me free, da da da de de da

Everyone sing it now, lets put those hands together.