It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Saudis want US to pay for reducing oil usage

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:23 PM
link   

Saudis want US to pay for reducing oil usage


rawstory.com

If you thought the executives at Goldman Sachs were the kings of backroom finance, think again.

Goldman Sachs, meet Saudi King Abdullah.

A new gambit by the oil-dealing kingdom would have Western oil guzzlers paying for using less oil. Sounds like the opposite of reality, you say? The Saudis say it's the only way they'll be able to afford helping the fight against global warming.

The New York Times frames the Saudi idea as, "if wealthy countries reduce their oil consumption to combat global warming, they should pay compensation to oil producers."
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:23 PM
link   
What ? Did I just read that right ??


Could we be facing a " Leverage tool " being used against the oil using countries ? Either pay us a form of compensation or face very high oil costs ?

One thing that does come to mind , as slim as it may be , I could seem this also be secret behind the scene deals between the U.S and the Saudis . Lets not forget that the oil producing nations , Saudi being one of them , takes a portion of the money made on oil transactions to then in turn by U.S treasury bonds which will then allow the U.S to print and borrow money via the Fed .

If the oil producing nations are dumping the USD as the currency of choice then the oil producing nations will then be left with two options , either stop buying US treasury bonds , or find another way to generate money from the sale of oil , or lack there of in this case , to then in turn use to continue buying US bonds .

I can't help but believe the latter , seeing how oil sales will continue to rise as China and India become more " industrialized " . Given that , I am left wondering if this is in fact a way to make money from oil so that these oil producing nations can continue buying US bonds even if the USD is discontinued as the currency of oil .

Wether we like it or not the US economy is linked to oil and its downfall could in a lot of ways destroy the US economy .

rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:42 PM
link   
Want us to pay for using less oil? fine, we'll just get it somewhere else, and you can enjoy getting nothing.

Freaking greedy saudi princes. Lets see how well they do without us protecting/supporting them.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:44 PM
link   
Alternative energy sources should be mainstreamed before oil becomes platinum. That is the only way to teach those Saudis a lesson.

What you're spending now on fuel will be the same in the future except for the fact that you're only using 1/10th of it in the future.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:47 PM
link   
reply to post by djon01
 


We do get most of our oil else where . The US buys most of its oil from Canada , not the Saudis .

Another reason why I think there is more to this story then that which is being told .



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:52 PM
link   
Nothing more than a political power play. Playing both sides of the street in the school yard fight. Collecting either way in the end. How many times throughout history have we seen this very same plot. As Ameicans now have to learn to live with less, then so will greedy souls find the nature of their own karma handing them less profits as they loose their cool looking for more. Of course the little guy always gets blamed and picked upon in the school yard. Inevitably the little guy gets tired of being picked on and becomes the Lion, thus beginning, the next age. Nothing new, over and over, cycle to cycle.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:01 AM
link   
The Saudis can read the writing on the wall. Fossil fuels are going the way of the horse and buggy. They, along with the major oil companies want to squeeze every last cent out of oil.

They can see that fifty, probably even more like twenty years down the road, Oil will not be the lifeblood of the world's economy.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:11 AM
link   
Let's face it with a president like Obama running the show, we are going to see much more "bullying" like this from many other countries as well.

Obama is a joke, and don't get me started on his administration such as Hillary Clinton who flipped out when an Asian reporter asked her accidentally what "Mr. Clinton" thought.

This civilization is in its last few months, then the NWO will be placed, and thank God for that.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:43 AM
link   
Afghan pipeline?

What pipeline?




Interesting perspective here: Related topic.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:51 AM
link   
maybe we should mine the gulf off all the saudis oil ports.(and blame it on Iran)
then the Saudis could not get there oil out without US help.

And then start Telling them that we are busy right now with iraq and Afghanistan and would need to make a few deals before we could free up our forces to deal with the mines.

of course they could try to clear the mines themselves but there are mines that can not be cleared with normal minesweepers.
this is why the US scraped there minesweeps (MSO class ships ) and built new minehunter ships. (MCM, MHC class ships)
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 01:13 AM
link   
I think it's time for them to stop concentrating wealth in the hands of their royal family. Allow elections and use the royal money to build industries that will survive after the oil boom dries up. Why rely on the goodwill of the west to pay more than they have to for something? I wouldn't want to rely on that even if western politicans were crazy enough to agree to it.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 01:22 AM
link   
reply to post by 4ortunate1
 


Very good points you rase but what if the Saudis stop buying US bonds unless they are compensated to do so ? Assuming the world stops using the USD as the currency for purchasing oil , as all indications are pointing to then what motivation would the Saudis have to continue buying US bonds ?

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Max_TO]

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Max_TO]



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 04:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by djon01
Want us to pay for using less oil? fine, we'll just get it somewhere else, and you can enjoy getting nothing.

Freaking greedy saudi princes. Lets see how well they do without us protecting/supporting them.


OK - theres a lot of things on this thread I want to comment on, because the relationship between the US, Saudi's and the US dollar seem to be fairly misunderstood.

The Saudi's are the principle source of the wealth of the US. They supply the US with oil, in exchange for pieces of paper that the US can print for nothing. In other words the USA has got all its oil free for quite a long time.
Of course it is not just the Saudi's - any other nation that can be forced to sell in USD also contributes to the wealth of the USA.

Because countries require oil - they also require USD - this means every country holds them. As the US increases its inflation rate - then the value of foreign held USD's depreciate - it is simply a form of taxation. The US gets to spend its dollars first - the rest of the world gets depreciated dollars - in other words the US has been able to tax the entire world.

So - if you wonder why the US has been so affluent and successful - there are two reasons. It has oil for free, and has been able to tax the world.

Why has the world allowed it?

Its very simple - negotiations were conducted with the barrel of a gun. The US found a faction in Saudi who would support them - they backed them with media, political power - but most importantly they established troops on the ground.

So the wealth of the USA has completely depended on its ability to use military force to hold guns to the heads of oil producing nations so they sell in USD. This is not noble - this is does not make America a great country - they are bandits and thieves - and everyone in the world basically knows this story - except you guessed it - Americans. Who think their country is wealthy because they are clever and work hard - think again.

The average Saudi hates both the rulers and US, but more so the US - because they do not benefit at ALL from this massive amount of oil wealth that is effectively being raped from their country by the US - and the Saudi royals are really the only ones who directly benefit.

Because the Saudi's have limited reserves - and production costs are fairly high - when oil prices are manipulated downwards (I mean manipulated - exactly as stated) they start losing money.

Due to their support of the US - and their supply of completely free oil to the US - they have a good case to demand compensation if oil prices or production rates are forced down.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 04:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by 4ortunate1
I think it's time for them to stop concentrating wealth in the hands of their royal family. Allow elections and use the royal money to build industries that will survive after the oil boom dries up. Why rely on the goodwill of the west to pay more than they have to for something? I wouldn't want to rely on that even if western politicans were crazy enough to agree to it.


The situation is that the peasants are repressed - elections? You jest - it is strange they havent killed off the royals.

The average Saudi hates the US through and through - there are plenty who would die to see the US suffer.

They have been totally crushed by the US and their own minority faction rulers. The royals are riding the tiger - they can't get off - they will be eaten.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 05:04 AM
link   
reply to post by Amagnon
 


fantastic summation, although i wouldn't agree that the saudi royals have a right to demand compensation. the royals have been supported and pampered, by both britain and america, for almost a hundred years, i don't see what they'ld need to be compensated for.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 05:15 AM
link   
reply to post by Amagnon
 


This is also Bin Laden's point of view and why he is seen as a hero by the poor and repressed people of the entire region.

Thus from their perspective, Bin Laden is both a hero and a genius for engineering 911. He is a wealthy well connected man that decided to turn his back on the House of Saud and expose them for what they are. As long as things remain as they are there will be an endless supply of poor freedom fighters who we will label as terrorists.


[edit on 15-10-2009 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 05:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by Max_TO

If the oil producing nations are dumping the USD as the currency of choice then the oil producing nations will then be left with two options , either stop buying US treasury bonds , or find another way to generate money from the sale of oil , or lack there of in this case , to then in turn use to continue buying US bonds .



Ok - a bunch of weird stuff you posted here - I'll try and sort it a bit logically.

Actually I can't really make heads or tails of this. Why would the oil producers be left with a choice of buying US treasuries or finding another way to make money?

You make it sound like their income is derived from US treasuries - it is derived from sales of oil. They are paid in dollars - not treasuries.

When they have the dollars - they can then spend them on whatever they like - if they chose to spend on treasuries - that is good for the US - and until recently, a US treasury was a fairly good investment.

If Saudi's start selling in other currencies - they can still buy whatever they like - if they want US treasuries they can just go through forex markets to get dollars. If they want Chinese bonds - they can also buy them - they can buy any asset they like - they will just need to go through a forex to exchange currency - or buy assets in the currency they are selling in.

Treasuries and oil revenue are nothing to do with each other, this paragraph hurts my brain.




I can't help but believe the latter , seeing how oil sales will continue to rise as China and India become more " industrialized " . Given that , I am left wondering if this is in fact a way to make money from oil so that these oil producing nations can continue buying US bonds even if the USD is discontinued as the currency of oil .

Wether we like it or not the US economy is linked to oil and its downfall could in a lot of ways destroy the US economy .


Again - I am left scratching my head. If the USD is not the monopolistic currency for oil - this does not mean that the US at least will not buy oil in dollars.

Why is this all about US bonds? The Saudi's need to recirculate their currencies accumulated from oil sales for sure -but they can buy anything and exchange of currency is not a big deal in the modern world.

You say that pricing oil is important to the US economy? No - its a lot more than important - it is the ONLY thing that has given the US wealth, military power and influence.

Without control of oil - the US is nothing. That day has come - there is no getting the angry cat back into the bag that I can see. It would require military force of an order that would be of prohibitive cost and would necessarily involve Russia and China in the conflict - nope - the dollar hegemony is dying - and America is way ahead of it.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:37 PM
link   
reply to post by Amagnon
 


Yes they get payed in dollars they will then in turn use a % of that money and will buy US bonds , as mentioned in one of the other posts , the US has in a way been taxing the world by means of oil . When the currency of choice moves from USD to some other currency then by all imagining this investing in the US by oil producing nations will in all likelihood come to an end , unless the oil producing nations come up with some other way to generate some cash to then in turn buy US bonds .

When these oil producing nations by US bonds in benefits the US not the oil nations . This will allow the US to print money that is backed by these bonds .

One quick source that I was able to find ... www.businessweek.com...

But here's something to consider: One reason long-term interest rates are so low is that oil producers, enjoying a spike in fuel prices, raked in petrodollars and put much of their profits in U.S. Treasury bonds. Now, as oil prices fall and fuel-producing nations find more ways to invest and spend within their borders, fewer petrodollars may flow into U.S. government securities. That could put upward pressure on America's long-term interest rates. "It will be the sting in the tail," says George Magnus, senior economic adviser at UBS (UBS ) in London.

To understand how this could happen, witness how oil-producing countries have been investing their billions of petrodollar profits over the past year. When the price of a barrel jumped from $66 on the New York Mercantile Exchange this January to $75 in July, the trade surpluses of oil-producing nations jumped along with them. In 2006 their surplus is projected to eclipse that of Asia, according to the International Monetary Fund, with fuel exporters expected to generate a $505 billion surplus, vs. $462 billion from Asian nations.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:50 PM
link   
You know, I was trying to think of something clever to say...then reality hit me...we will probably end up paying...gotta keep the oil gods happy.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:58 PM
link   
reply to post by Max_TO
 


Well, you know what, Al Saud family, as soon as we confirm the Moon is made out of Cheese, confirm that there are in fact honest politician's on Capitol Hill, and that the Tooth Fairy exists, I think we can oblige you.

Otherwise, shut the Hell up, Al Saud family, because I will do no such thing.

I remember O.P.E.C., the Oil of Food scam with the U.N. and Saddam Hussein, and as well that the Al Saud family is in bed with the U.S. Government.

There will be no way in Hell I will pay for using less oil or gasoline.

And, if they try sneaking in some damn tax to kick that in gear, I will promptly get every single American in our country to boycott anything to do with it as well as get signed petitions for the citizens to rescind every politician's place in office.

Anyone who wants to know anything about the Al Saud family can read the book about their favorite family, the bin Laden's.

The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century


Amazon Review :

The bin Ladens are famous for spawning the world's foremost terrorist and building one of the Middle East's foremost corporate dynasties.

Pulitzer Prize–winner Coll (Ghost Wars) delivers a sprawling history of the multifaceted clan, paying special attention to its two most emblematic members.

Patriarch Mohamed's eldest son, Salem, was a caricature of the self-indulgent plutocrat: a flamboyant jet-setter dependent on the Saudi monarchy, obsessed with all things motorized (he died crashing his plane after a day's joy-riding atop motorcycle and dune-buggy) and forever tormenting his entourage with off-key karaoke.

Coll presents quite a contrast with an unusually nuanced profile of Salem's half-brother Osama, a shy, austere, devout man who nonetheless shares Salem's egomania.

Other bin Ladens crowd Coll's narrative with the eye-glazing details of their murky business deals, messy divorces and ill-advised perfume lines and pop CDs.

Beneath the clutter one discerns an engrossing portrait of a family torn between tradition and modernity, conformism and self-actualization, and desperately in search of its soul.


Anyone wanting to know the events that led up to September 11th should read :

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001


Amazon Review :

Steve Coll's Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 offers revealing details of the CIA's involvement in the evolution of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the years before the September 11 attacks.

From the beginning, Coll shows how the CIA's on-again, off-again engagement with Afghanistan after the end of the Soviet war left officials at Langley with inadequate resources and intelligence to appreciate the emerging power of the Taliban.

He also demonstrates how Afghanistan became a deadly playing field for international politics where Soviet, Pakistani, and U.S. agents armed and trained a succession of warring factions.

At the same time, the book, though opinionated, is not solely a critique of the agency.

Coll balances accounts of CIA failures with the success stories, like the capture of Mir Amal Kasi.

Coll, managing editor for the Washington Post, covered Afghanistan from 1989 to 1992.

He demonstrates unprecedented access to records of White House meetings and to formerly classified material, and his command of Saudi, Pakistani, and Afghani politics is impressive.

He also provides a seeming insider's perspective on personalities like George Tenet, William Casey, and anti-terrorism czar, Richard Clarke ("who seemed to wield enormous power precisely because hardly anyone knew who he was or what exactly he did for a living").

Coll manages to weave his research into a narrative that sometimes has the feel of a Tom Clancy novel yet never crosses into excess.

While comprehensive, Coll's book may be hard going for those looking for a direct account of the events leading to the 9-11 attacks.

The CIA's 1998 engagement with bin Laden as a target for capture begins a full two-thirds of the way into Ghost Wars, only after a lengthy march through developments during the Carter, Reagan, and early Clinton Presidencies.

But this is not a critique of Coll's efforts; just a warning that some stamina is required to keep up.

Ghost Wars is a complex study of intelligence operations and an invaluable resource for those seeking a nuanced understanding of how a small band of extremists rose to inflict incalculable damage on American soil.


I'll be damned to Hell before the Al Saud family gets one penny from me, for not spending more money.

These people are rich as Hell and they flaunt and waste that money faster than diarrhea coming out after someone used laxative getting ready for a colonoscopy.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join