Is Israel the real Antichrist?

good reply, but don't put thoughts in my mind which aren't there..
I dont feel higher then you, i talk like this to make a point,
those points will look partly foolish but they will go in your system.

I react in a personal direct way, but i dont see it that personal,
i wasn't attacking you...i like to react very direct...honest.

Words can not contain a full truth, they can only describe it,
so the reader must discern what to use and the context...
that's why the books are misunderstood.

Truth can be one by its paradox... this is fully logically,
to reach god, you do not need a holy book.
You need your reflections. But if Truth is one, as absolute,
it means there is a 2-sided coin, and the one side is one,
with full responisbility, where the other side is divided,
and the other parts carry the guild.

So you can search arrogance in my words,
are you can be responsible and use whatever you can use
to cancel something out or grow it.

People react always on honor, protection,
so they miss the important stuff that is one layer deeper,
and that protection is the real arrogance,
because it misses responsibility.

But humans can only grow.

After doubt wisdom becomes as haircolor,
it is both soft as sharp...2-sided sword.

That's why the sun and the moon will be eclipsed,
truth needs sensitivity so deep not to be taken wrong.


[edit on 15-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by mamabeth

 

Please, I have just as much right to debate the issue as anyone else. Even you religious folks should be able to understand that much from scripture. Don't start cherry picking God's word now, you know he doesn't like that.


When, and where, did I say you didn't have any rights to debate issues?
If you are referring to my comment about not having enough ammunition.
I was referring to Bible knowledge and applying that knowledge to your
everyday life. A lot of God haters have Biblical knowledge,but use it to
discredit scripture and divide and conquer christianity.

Upon rereading the possible interpretation of the Bible verses in my previous post, another possibility struck me as more likely. Maybe Jesus wasn't calling Abraham, himself, the devil. Maybe he was suggesting that his Jewish audience were imposters and not the TRUE descendents from the line of Abraham. That makes more sense.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not racist or a people hater. However, I do have a problem with corrupt leadership (of all nations) that enslaves, takes advantage of, and disrupts the peace and prosperity of all peoples. I can't for the life of me figure out why people won't just live and let live and stop trying to conquer everybody else territorially, financially, physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, etc. Sometimes, I think that the spirit of Satanism is wrapped up in and kept alive by greed, envy, hate, etc. I think that the 'seven deadly sins' are the real sins. To conquer them may be what it really means conquer Satan (slay the dragon). Christ's teachings were beautiful. It's a shame how they have become distorted. As always, that's just my humble opinion.

true, when israel entered Canaan, they took the wifes of the land...
the seed came through the woman, foreign women means mixed population...

Before the exodus stopped, and they entered the land, numbers describe us how many people were missing from entering... where did they went ?

They are spread over the world, they don't know themselves.
and they are not supposed to really know it, because it can grow
arrogance. When their being means repenting until death.
Curse and blessing.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

Israel being the Antichrist is pretty far-fetched, as well as believing those crappy lies about God who created the Earth 6ooo years ago.

You contradict yourself, OP, by saying " I'm not particularly a believer " and then posting a thread about a christendom-related topic, the antichrist. This is a snake biting its own tail.

reply to post by mamabeth

A lot of God haters have Biblical knowledge,but use it to
discredit scripture and divide and conquer christianity.

Regardless of what Christians like to think, the Messianic prophecies were not for them nor was Jesus the Messiah. Hell, one doesn't even have to be atheist to use the bible against Christians, even the Jews know Jesus was a false prophet who did nothing more than pervert God's words and contradict his own teachings. Man is the author of the New Testament, God only wrote the Old Testament, that should speak volumes about the nature of Christianity itself.

Originally posted by MattMulder

Israel being the Antichrist is pretty far-fetched, as well as believing those crappy lies about God who created the Earth 6ooo years ago.

You contradict yourself, OP, by saying " I'm not particularly a believer " and then posting a thread about a christendom-related topic, the antichrist. This is a snake biting its own tail.

You seem to be the only one thus far who believes this is far fetched. This thread is NOT about me. Please stay on topic.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by mamabeth

 

A lot of God haters have Biblical knowledge,but use it to
discredit scripture and divide and conquer christianity.

Regardless of what Christians like to think, the Messianic prophecies were not for them nor was Jesus the Messiah. Hell, one doesn't even have to be atheist to use the bible against Christians, even the Jews know Jesus was a false prophet who did nothing more than pervert God's words and contradict his own teachings. Man is the author of the New Testament, God only wrote the Old Testament, that should speak volumes about the nature of Christianity itself.

Salvation is to the jew first,then the gentile.Yeshua Ha Mashiach is hebrew
for Jesus the Messiah.The Bible was written by man with Divine inspiration,
that includes both the old and new testament.
Jesus fulfilled all old testament prophecy pertaining to the Messiah.The jews are still waiting for the first coming of Messiah,the christians are waiting for His return.Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai,Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

reply to post by mamabeth

Salvation is to the jew first,then the gentile.Yeshua Ha Mashiach is hebrew
for Jesus the Messiah.

Yeshua is never mentioned once in the Old Testament as the Messiah.

The Bible was written by man with Divine inspiration,
that includes both the old and new testament.

Incorrect, the last book of God's word is Malachi. The New testament was a perversion of God's word and prophecy in regards to bringing the two houses together under a new name. The prophecies haven't even been realized yet as Jerusalem still has not been rebuilt in full.

Jesus fulfilled all old testament prophecy pertaining to the Messiah.The jews are still waiting for the first coming of Messiah,the christians are waiting for His return.Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai,Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

There is no Messianic prophecy calling for a second coming to fulfill the prophecies, that is a Christian invention, not a prophecy of God.

the suffering servant, the annointed one is the son of man,
the son of man are all prophets, including jesus,
so jesus could speak for the son, as david was part of that son too.

There is no religion that understands this yet.

What was predicted was about the son of man, all the prophets together.
But from that place heaven it's perfect possible to come back for a while...
as jesus did AFTER glorification. as joshua's stone with seven eyes,
here you had one of those eyes staying a while.

there were two spies coming back from the promised land to bring the rest into it...

malachis words are to be fullfilled... but religion will see false prophets when they are real...both islam as christianity wait to condemn a prophet who will make religion one as false in their eyes, fruits to be disbelieved...and judaism await a prophet it can not understand or see without the (real) gospel's message...big delusion was promised,
whent he other religions start to condemn, their doubts and fears can make it worse to understand. Israel always played both curse as blessing...religion will split into southern and northern kingdom. The southern kingdom will run towards the mountains (meaning wisdom) when they see jerusalem surrounded (meaning the prophets, the moon, michael the prince)...revelation is a book of symbols, daniel too. The history of israel also is as a symbol to explain the world.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

well, I was puzzled why the Vatican allowed itself to be sued for child molestation --- what was weird was --- the almost Identical thing happened in America as it did in Australia ... there was only a 10 year
difference ... I think since we are not providing them with victims they decided to make the world a victim instead... give us your kids or we will destroy you... ha ha.. but I think the AntiChrist is cleaver enough to destroy the Vactican if it wasnt the Anti-Christ dont you think...

reply to post by useless eaters


in the thread starter you present these factoids, which are pertinent about the make-up and character of the nation-state Israel ;

Israel in a lot of ways seems to be hung up on the number “6” . As in 6 million Jews died in the holocaust. Not 5.5 million, not 6.5 million, not 7 million, It just has to be 6 million.
Then there is the national symbol, known as the “star of David” which has six points and at least one author has shown it to have the number, 666. The history of the symbol is even more interesting. It has nothing to do with king David, and a lot to do with the Rothschild’s family.
The Rothschild’s are the super rich who many would argue are the true powers that be. The elitist banking empire known to finance both sides of wars for profit. Literally making a killing off of people being killed. The Rothschild’s were the biggest financers of the state of Israel. At least one major street in Israel is named after Rothschild’s not to mention a lot of the Rothschild occult symbols are strewn everywhere.

There are of course other dots to be connected. But in my opinion the most notorious one of them all is the way Israel has adopted and exploited DECEPTION. And it even brags about . The Israeli secret service has as their motto, “By way of deception thou shall rule over others” . Israel gets it’s way by employing deception. The Christian likes to identify the antichrist as the great deceiver. And will look everywhere except to the place when deception is a way of life, Israel.
Many Christian churches even pay tribute to Israel. Even after admitting it was the Jews who killed their Jesus Christ. You cannot get more deceived than that. Israel is the number one recipient of our foreign aid. Americans may be homeless living on the streets but American politicians will always find a way to give Israel more money.
Israel is a necular power who’s accountable to no one. “Who is like the beast (antichrist)and who can make war with him?" The world is afraid of Israel that’s why nothing is done to stop it.
For me, If there ever was/is such a thing as an antichrist it is Israel

all these points you make, clearly have a sense of 'darkness' about them...
I submit that the zionist Israel has a spiritual prince above it...
and that spirit/angel is none other than 'Amalek' who once materalized as the 'serpent' in Eden.
Amalek, according to Jewish Mysticism is steeped in UnChastity, Murder, & sower of Doubt...& with its 'twin-soul' called Idolotry...merge into a unholy entity named 'Samael'
in the end-time...Amalek will be released from the Earth prison it's now in and team up with Apolloyon which have an actual anthrophomorphic counter part in the False Prophet + Antichrist...

keep in mind that Amalek = Prince of Israel
and at the same time Amalek assumes a mortal/human form,
most likely an Israeli citizen at the end-time.
or perhaps a person with a dual citizenship (Israeli-American?)
as many of the recently known 'neo-cons' are themselves dual citizens.


but this scene is in the not too distant future,

people will search the antichrist outside them,
and see the real prophet(s) as false...

what you say point to this,
because it's build on visions instead of logic.

the prince is michael, part of the prophets.
and they will condemn elijah, as they did with jesus.
all the abrahamic religions will be part of that.

i just repeat this to break the brainwash of the churches
that expect an antichrist...beasts don't see theirselves as beasts.

prophesies are misunderstood

the christian church misunderstands :
the temple, which is spiritual now
israel, which is not the state
the prince of daniel, which is not the antichrist
the sun and the moon eclipse, which has an abstract meaning
delusion, which means what they excpect can't be right,
and is need of an elijah figure to explain, elijah means
the person will be glorified, just as jesus was
the prince will be all prophets who will preach
the gospel of love to the world, a gospel the world
doesn't really know yet as the real version of the holy books,
but most people do feel and understand most of it allready (in their hearts),
love doesn't need namecalling, and is not ignorance.
Islam excpects an antichrist with one good eye, which means
in spiritual sense, ignorance. Jesus told us to give our both cheecks,
which means looking to things from 2 sides, making the black white.

The churches are deceived, all of them,
including atheism.

They are the northern kingdom worshipping at BETHEL,
which is the place where the stair to heaven started,
repeat 'started', with jacob his vision there... Amos
predicted bethel to become nothing, because the northern
kingdom forget to worship at jerusalem... which is all
spiritual meaning, acted out in history as literal to teach us
the abstract meaning. Religion goes back to the start, it looks back
at sodom.

But that's not a bad thing, it is prepared like that to let people
take up their crosses.



[edit on 16-10-2009 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by St Udio


I agree, And one such possible canidate is the one in your signature, Rahm Emanuel.

Well, I think I have made a pretty good case for Israel being the anti-christ, so have others who contributed on this thread.

Is there anything we have overlooked?

reply to post by useless eaters


Yes, you overlooked the Messianic prophecies that state how the Messiah is supposed to bring the house of Israel and Judah together. How can Israel be the Anti-Christ is it's integral to God's plan? Think about that one...

The Anti-Christ is a Christian invention and no where in the Messianic prophecies does God even elude to the possibility of such a person or entity coming into being.

reply to post by sirnex


The antichrist is a person living now and waiting for his time to wreak
this world.
The antichrist is not a nation,a religion or some super computer in europe.
The antichrist will be exposed in the near future.He will sign a peace treaty
with the middle east and Israel.He will break this treaty and show his true
colors.When this happens,it will be too late to stop him.
The antichrist will bring about the new world order and only God can stop
him.

reply to post by sirnex


"Yes, you overlooked the Messianic prophecies that state how the Messiah is supposed to bring the house of Israel and Judah together. How can Israel be the Anti-Christ is it's integral to God's plan? Think about that one...

The Anti-Christ is a Christian invention and no where in the Messianic prophecies does God even elude to the possibility of such a person or entity coming into being."


I'll go along with The Anti-Christ being a Christian invention. but where do I find these Messianic prophecies you talk about? Is that a book or something?

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by sirnex

 

The antichrist is a person living now and waiting for his time to wreak
this world.
The antichrist is not a nation,a religion or some super computer in europe.
The antichrist will be exposed in the near future.He will sign a peace treaty
with the middle east and Israel.He will break this treaty and show his true
colors.When this happens,it will be too late to stop him.
The antichrist will bring about the new world order and only God can stop
him.

And all this is in the revelation chapter of the New Testament?

I have heard the term "anti-Christ" is a fairly recent term. Prior to this he/it/or whatever, was called simply, the beast.

reply to post by useless eaters


The Messianic prophecies from the Old Testament? I mean... if you want to talk about an Anti-Christ, an entity that is the opposite of the Messiah, then surely you must know the signs for when the Messiah would come?

@mamabeth

Like I said, Christian invention, it does not matter what the Christians have to say about this. I know Christians hate this, but God's word is above anything you guy's have to say. You can't just run around and claim Messiah's and new prophecies and expect God to listen to your version of him.