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Enough with talk about Secession or Insurrection!

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posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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Headlines daily read "America Divided". Ever since the 2000 Election, we have become a Nation obsessed with Red vs. Blue, Us vs. Them to the point that it has become detrimental and unhealthy to us as a Nation.

Want to know a secret? None of us are Red or Blue. We are all Purple!

Want to know another secret? There hasn't been a time when we were not "divided"!

The nature of our form of Representational Democratic Republic is one where no one gets their way. Instead, it is a system of compromise, of give and take, of making concessions, so that we can remain united. It is not a system of Government that allows for any one side to happy all of the time. It is not a system of Government that allows for any one side to even be happy some of the time. It is a system of Government that instead allows for each viewpoint to have a say, yet no one side to rule over any minority. The nature of our Government requires all sides to meet somewhere in between, offering watered-down versions of what each side wants, but all sides can live with even if they aren't happy with it.

Most importantly, our Representational Democratic Republic allows for change. Our Governmental model is far from perfect, and is perhaps the most inefficient model of government next to Direct Democracy, but it is structured in such a way that it can be changed without disrupting the balance of power, without giving Red or Blue the opportunity to infringe the rights of the other, so that even a minority may have representation and a say in how they are governed.

People like Ron Paul understand this, and he is not alone, even amongst Congress. Government is broke, but you don't fix something by speaking of Secession or Insurrection just because your Government isn't exactly what you want it to be. Just because you have a Ford instead of a Ferrari, doesn't justify going out and taking a Ferrari at gun-point or under threat of violence when your Ford is broken down. The proper thing to do is to get underneath the hood of your Ford and fix what is broken from the inside. That is what people like Ron Paul do, and the reason he has my respect while political pundits on the sidelines who would rather spout rhetoric and incense the masses to acting out in violent insurrection rather than do something constructive will never get my respect.

Our Government has been broken since 1829. It didn't take long for Corruption to have it's toll. In those years since, we have grown to such an unmanageable size as a Nation that our broken Government grew proportionately as bloated, and the Corruption came to seem proportionately larger, even though it is no more widespread than it was almost 200 years ago.

Yet, when the Confederate States seceded from the Union beginning in 1860, our Government sent in Federal Troops to keep them from doing such, and War broke out. Despite it being the bloodiest War our Nation has ever seen, it was done for the right reasons...to keep our Nation whole. The great losses felt on both sides was a reminder of why we are a Nation, paid for in blood.

When our Founders made this Nation, and the Colonies joined United, it was under the premise of "All for One and One for All." Despite our many differences, creeds, religions, and even political platforms, we are all in the same boat. If some of the people on the boat want to row one way and some other people on the boat want to row another way, then a consensus has to be formed, for the benefit of all, for if both groups row in the direction they want to go, then the boat will just go in circles, and if one of the sides throws the other side overboard then they will only make it half as far, and if the sides break the boat in half, both halves will sink. So it is with our Country.

We can't kick the people out of our Country that we don't agree with. Our many differences is what makes us unique and strong.

We can't adamantly refuse to abide by consensus and do our own thing while everyone does the opposite because that will get us no where fast. We have to work together or nothing will work at all.

We can't let anyone break up this Country into different parts. If California, the richest of States in the Union can't make it, then what makes you think any other State can go it alone? Like it or not, we need each other, and we are stronger as a whole.

Whatever you may personally believe, doesn't make it right. Whatever your Government does likewise doesn't make you automatically disenfranchised or apart from our Nation.

Our Government, and therefore our Nation, is a Participatory one. You have the right not to participate, and you have the right to disagree, and you have the right to not like it. However, there is no excuse to subscribe to the idea of "I don't like it so I'm taking my share and leaving!" If you don't like something then do something about it! Don't make threats of Secession or Insurrection because all that will do is get you arrested (or dead) for the Common Good. If you don't like something then get off your lazy-boy and use the system to fix the system, just like everyone else in this Nation must do.

However, know ye well that the United States is not Burger King. You cannot have it your way!

You may have to compromise. You may have to give in order to take. You may have to offer concessions. In the end, you will get some of what you want, but you'll have to accept some of what you don't want to have it. Welcome to Democracy!

Our system may be inefficient, it may be bloated, it may be corrupt, and it may be broken. However, like it or not, it's *OUR* inefficient, bloated, corrupt and broken Government. Either help do something about it, by playing by the same rules everyone else has had to do for the past 233 years, or stop complaining. Grow up and stop pointing fingers at others, casting blame rather than offering solutions, and being open to compromise.

Ask not what you have done for your Government, but what your Government has done to you is no longer enough. Stop playing the role of the whining victim. You have just as much power as the next person. Empower yourself!

For what it comes down to is this:

If we don't stand together, Purple with Purple, Red with Blue and Blue with Red, then we stand to lose together. United We Stand, Divided We Fall. Remember, our Government model is All for One and One for All. If this ship sinks all of us aboard will sink. Stop the incessant talk about Secession and Insurrection for a minute and lets work together instead of bickering and fighting.

Because ultimately, if you want to divide rather than cooperatively work and stand united, then you are just allowing yourself to be a Tool to TPTB that fear what our Nation can do together, as inefficient, bloated, corrupt, and broken as it may be.




posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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Nice rant.

In reply... and just briefly without addressing anything but what I feel to be the single issue...

The United States was confederated on the premise of first, the right of the states to control their own destiny and then, under the premise that the confederation was not above dissolve. In fact, the author of the Constitution was fairly clear that the union was not above the right of the people to once again rewrite the entire thing or, if they wished, separate from it.

I think it entirely healthy that we talk aboyt these things. History has shown repeatedly that societies without that right, often end with a bigger bang than the one that announced its arrival.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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your absolutely correct. how dare anyone to question anything ... what we have a trouble maker --

well, I'm just one of 300 million so, I would say - thats a squeek of a whisper... and my voice is no more important than yours. and well ...
these cock bites want to manage you like a jew in a german concentration camp.. - they are going to chip you... first for health care and later on for money - after all Ron Paul is gonna Audit the FED and it will be closed ... ah -- we are in need of a monitary system if that happens --- ah, everyone is already chipped for healthcare lets use that to keep track of money..
RFID, cameras, it sure adds up to 1984 in 2009..

AE Star and a Flag

I'm starting a new business its called Impersonate = thats right, find a rich fart - copy his RFID number - flash your chip with his number\program and live like a king for a few hours and then reflash yours and continue on like nothing is happening...


[edit on 14-10-2009 by Anti-Evil]



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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OP - I understand what you are saying, but I think you need to look a bit deeper.

The government needs compliance to continue to function - they need people to obey rules and do what they are told - so long as people play along, willingly or unwillingly - then they can basically keep doing whatever they are doing.

When people stop playing along - when people throw a spanner in the works - when people just say 'Damn it, your not representing me anymore!', when people stop going to work - when they stop paying tax - when they walk out of the military - then you force them to the negotiating table.

Negotiating with each other when your being acted upon by a third party is a waste of time. You need to negotiate with the government - and they will not negotiate until they are forced to do so.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by redoubt
 


What's not healthy is to disguise racism and extremism by claiming to disagree on policy.

Most the big mouths on this forum that are anti Obama, are anti Obama because he is black, rather half White.

Sure there is plenty to gripe about regarding every administration we have ever had, but this forum is crawling with ignorant and bigoted hate mongers bent on rationalizing their disapproval of the results of the election by blaming everythng and anything they can make up on Obama.

Where were all the patriots when Bush and his cronies were destroying all our rights and breaking every international law they could find to justify a money grab for the very rich?

I'll tell you where they were, right here cheering the Iraq war, and the cowboy President. Big tough guys, big mouth, little heart. Bunch of frakking cowards.

Get a grip.

Obama has done a lot, how about preventing a global financial meltdown?
How about Iraq?

Health care reform, here is a real paradox. Most of the rabid posters are the very same people that are going to be helped by health care reform.

It's the same as the Joe the Plumber scenario. A guy not named Joe, not a Plumber, not a timely tax payer, not a person with any sense of what it is to be American, just some yahoo redneck becomes the poster boy for patriotic America. It's sick and stupid. Then there is Sarah Palin. I won't even describe her.

But I guess anything is better than a NIGG%%R in the White House.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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US Code, standing law:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.



[edit on 14-10-2009 by mnemeth1]



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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I don't normally reply to such threads because I find it unhelpful to even talk about keeping our mouths shut and not questioning anything but I have to say this that I have said before.

1) I do not care what color the dude in the White House is, I did not vote for him (I exercised my choice, and in that way voiced an opinion) I have the right as an American, actually scratch that a DUTY as an American citizen to hold him accountable for everything he does, right up to and including how man pens he uses to sign a bill into law if I so desire... those pens are the property of the American Taxpayers, i am one, so I want accountability (A bit extreme but used to get a point across)

2) See part one. We as Americans have a responsibility to make sure that our government works for us, if it does not then we as Americans have a responsibility to make it work, and the founding fathers, as someone else already pointed out, built that ability into the system. We could scrap the whole thing tomorrow and rewrite it all, and we would be within our rights to do so, so long as the majority voted it in. (not congress, but the states)

In short we have the right and the responsibility to question the government, anyone who states we shouldn't doesn't truly understand the core of being an American.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by fraterormus
Headlines daily read "America Divided". ........

Want to know another secret? There hasn't been a time when we were not "divided"!

The nature of our form of Representational Democratic Republic is one where no one gets their way. Instead, it is a system of compromise, of give and take, of making concessions, so that we can remain united.....




Sir, you are clueless.

We do not live in a democracy. We live in a Republic. Where the majority can't (supposedly) run roughshod over the rights of the individual.

The federals and the CIA have been doing their best to destroy the power of the states in favor of federal power. But the federals are so completely corrupt and they have already destroyed much of the infrastructure of this country. More and more people are waking up. Hopefully, the future of the federals will be short and limited.

As far as I'm concerned, the sooner the federals collapse, the better it will be for what remains of our country.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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I have watched this country lose the peace and security that it once had for the past 5 years. I know that it was probably on the downslide longer than that, but jobs where abundant, people always struggling, but at least happier.

Really started paying attention to the political process watching CSPAN back in 2007 and 2008. Our representatives filabustered every bill and quram calls all day long. I watched them crafting their bills, bringing them to the floor, arguing over them and then voting on them.

It was all B.S. and I really started singling out the representatives that were the biggest problems of all. I was on line hitting forums warning people of what was being done back then, trying to rally up the troops and wake America up about where we were headed. No one was paying attention and wrote me off as a nut case.

Now America is seeing the results of the decisions of our lawmakers, finally waking up to the nightmare I was watching being crafted for over 2 years via CSPAN. And they don't like it.

But unfortunately the troublesome representatives got voted back into office before they finally did awaken to the mess they created prior to the bills being implemented. I was on the phone and writing emails to my representatives back then complaining about what everyday American's are now screaming about today.

Now I see others writing what I have warned the American people about taking place everyday on here and other forums. I read all of my fellow American's comments and I say to myself, it's too late. They have their agenda and they are sticking to it. These representatives of ours, they do not care about you and I. They do not care about what we have to say, what we think, or how we feel. My own representative proved that to me. What they do is go out and sell to all of you what they want and if you don't go along, well they ignore you, or in my case, torture you for it.

Yes, I screamed, yelled, vented and it got me no where but put in a constant state of torture. 24/7 365. Seperation from all of my family and friends. My whole life stolen from me by my own fellow countrymen.

Now I watch daily as the same thing that is happening to me, is happening to all of you. I read the reports daily on here of the HUM, the Rumblings, the houses shaking. Yep. And people are out there supplying answers to the causes of these weird, unexplained phenomena.

The only difference between me and most posters on this site, is my faith and belief in the Living God. Vengence is mine saith the LORD, I will repay.

So, I have stopped writting the emails, I have stopped calling my representatives and instead calling on my Savior while praying for the rest of the people throughout the whole world, because I see it happening in all countries.

No one really listens to anyone anymore. It is like a battle of words and ideas and everyone thinks they have the right answer and no one can disagree, or agree to disagree. The government is fueling this, passing hate laws and a health care bill that no one wants. Sending our troops into meaningless elite interest wars. I pray for them too.

It is written, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand

Also written, Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his good, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

This is what has happened to us and to our country. And people no longer want to say God Bless America. So He no longer blesses us. Now we reap what we have sown. Unfortunately this is just the beginning and many report where we are going to end up, because we cannot come together as a people or as a nation anymore.

Obama promised to unite us again as a country. He has failed. Instead he has divided us even further then we have ever been before.

May God have mercy on us. Peace and prosperity are a thing of the past and we need His mercy.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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Obama did not divide anything.

His detractors are just yelling really really loud.

Most people want heath care reform, remember they elected Obama, and he ran on the reform / change ticket.

The problem is conservatives are anti change. But the real problem is not "real" conservatives, it's the nut jobs that blabber on inciting morons to do crazy things.

This country needs to come to grips with a few realities.

The last 10 years have put us in the crapper. We need a bath.

The rest of the world can see this clear as a bell, that's why they gave Obama the Nobel Peace Prize even though he's at war.

Duh! He got elected. That alone renewed their faith in America.

We are no longer seen as some Ahole with a big mouth and the mentality of a playground bully.

There is hope for us if we can elect a black guy with a progressive agenda.
But this is unacceptable to the rabble.

The rabble are the birthers, the tea baggers, the "no climate change exists" , the bomb Iran people, the "moral Majority", you know, Bible waving right to life people that will kill you if you disagree with their politics, or their religion, the patriots who want to impose their way of life on you.

Now they have a common enemy, OBAMA.

So all these crazies now shout louder.

That's all.

No big insurrection is coming, just a lot of cry babies eating sour grapes.

When nothing happens, they will just shut up, and go back to shooting up pumpkins with their AK47s, getting drunk, and Bible waving on Sunday.

Y'all, if this wasn't a socialist state, you would not have public schools, or that check you get every month. If it wasn't for free medical care, most of you would be dead.

Almost everything that made your life possible is gov subsidized. Unless of course you are one of the multi millionaires posting here at ATS.
Somehow, I doubt the average income here is in the upper 1%.

So who is the average Joe in the US? A guy who went to public school, who has a blue collar ancestry, whose family came here from some other country, and is probably earning under 100k a year.

If that is you, you should love Obama, and progressive agendas.

But here in America we have rights, and those rights extend to idiots and morons too, so we are a vociferous people.

That's all this is including my posts, just a bunch of people getting on a soapbox and pitching their dogma.

I burn off aggression doing this, it's venting.

I'm pissed off too. But I'm not ready to go insane and blame the nearest target for all my frustrations.

I want things to change, I want the BS to stop. I want the world to stop going insane and destroying itself. I want decent health care, I want fair taxes, I want personal freedom, and a chance for my kids to grow up and have meaningful lives.

No I don't want wars, fear mongering, and I don't want religions telling anybody what to do, or who to marry.

I don't want to be told what to do, what to feel, or what to think.

I want this country to live up to it's promise, not burn up in hatred.

I wish every frakking racist would bust in flames and go to hell, but I know that's not going to happen nor should it. They have a right to exist, but not to ruin the world for everyone else.

I agree with the OP, enough. We voted, the results are in. If you don't like it, vote him out. But stop the lies and the hate talk.

You are a small minority, grow up and join the human race,



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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I think that what you fail to see with the talk of Seccession or Insurrection is not that people want to disolve the United States, but that they are seeing something is very wrong with the country as it stands today.
My understanding of the founding forefathers of this country is that we broke away from England, because we did not have a voice in the running of the country. Our representatives were abused, even though they were trying to make ammends and find solutions to the problems between the british monarchy, parliment and the people of the colonies. And England, abused and misued a prescious resource of theirs, so our forefathers rose up and revolted. They tried to craft a frame of government and laws that would speak for all of the people of the country, with the phrase of We the People of the United States of America. And under that, it was the idea of majority rules, minority rights and that the federal government would speak with one voice, for all of its citizens.
Now we go forward and this is what most of the country is tired of, a government where only the few have rights, we all have rules and no longer speaks for its citizens, violating the social contract between those who govern and those who are governed. I sit and watch, look and have started to make a few calls, write letters and speak out against my goverment as is my right.
When people speak out against their government and that government does not answer or chooses to ignore those voices, then the voices start to talk of seccession and or insurrection against such, as it is showing that the federal government is choosing to alienate certain portions of the population.
Now most are just venting, but if the government keeps ignoring the voices of the people or continues to make laws that further restrict the citizens, the calls for such will increase.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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There is one other thing here that I forgot to add in. The current bills and laws of the country are going to either ruin the country or make criminals of us all. Is that the country that you would like to live in, where some of the basic rights that you have and are guaranteed by law are taken away because you are poor, or where the government tells you how you should live? I do not agree with such or desire such in my life and reject such.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by fraterormus
 


I absolutely enjoyed reading that rant of yours


Yes we are different... we are diverse, we have different opinions and different believes, but we all share the same nation, we all wave the same flag, and we are all americans. I think when people are frustrated ideologically they tend to want to get up and take their state with them... but really that isnt going to solve issue let alone happen. There will always be differences in opinions, always be differences in views, but that doesnt mean these differences are justifications for going your own way. It is our individualism, our own differences that seperate us from collective regimes like North Korea or Burma where peopleare forced to agree to one side and one side only. Our differences are an indicator to our support of individualism. Without that we are just another collectivist nation.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by fraterormus

We can't let anyone break up this Country into different parts. If California, the richest of States in the Union can't make it, then what makes you think any other State can go it alone? Like it or not, we need each other, and we are stronger as a whole.



There are plenty of countries in the world that have economies smaller than California that are doing quite well. They carry balanced budgets. They have normal elections and are mostly self sufficient.

Most of the 50 states could stand alone and do just fine.

It is mindless spending and the idea that Uncle Sam will always be there to bleed somebody else dry to give money to irresponsible deadbeats that has this country so screwed up.

No. We actually don't need each other as much as you would have people believe.

I do understand why people are so scared of the idea though.

Misery loves company.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 


Sorry, but that's like saying 50, 3 year old kids can be left to their own devices with no adult supervision.

Ever read "Lord of the Flies".

You think the FED is bad, have you ever worked in State Gov? That's who you should fear, the States are the biggest ripoff money wasters there are. I know for sure I worked for the State and resigned over just that, I could not stand the waste of taxpayer money.

Washington has nothing over Albany NY, when it comes to stealing your money.

People have a short memory. How long do you think Alabama, or Mississippi, or Arkansas, even Texas would survive on their own? California would collapse in a minute with no Fed help.

These are pipe dreams my friends. The U.S. is only strong united.
What you propose would be a disaster. Not to mention Russia and China would love to see the US become 50 little countries. Hell, Mexico could take over one state at a time,

Smoke some pot and get over it.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by ziggystrange
 


More hate thrown at conservatives by a leftist,what is new? If we don't bow down and worship Obama,we're racist rednecks. I'm sick and tired of this BS!



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by BigDaveJr
 


Sooooo.

My saying that the State Gov is more corrupt than the Fed Gov, and that united we stand and divided we fall is.............

Leftist hate being thrown at conservatives.

Then you wonder why us "leftists?" think you may be intellectually challenged, and that you can twist anything at all into a personal attack on your ideology?

Whatever you say, Big Guy.




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