Originally posted by SLAYER69
Originally posted by KSPigpen
Please check the report by NEJM linked earlier. It is pretty clear that no, not all of the deaths are Iraqis killing Iraqis. A good number ARE, I will
concede to that.
Now how did this admission get buried way back here instead of in the original post?
I am conceding that a good number (I have no way of knowing how many) of these reported civilian deaths are the result of sectarian violence. It
doesn't change my feelings. Not that it matters.
In events with at least one Iraqi civilian victim, the methods that killed the most civilians per event were aerial bombings (17 per event),
combined use of aerial and ground weapons (17 per event), and suicide bombers on foot (16 per event). Aerial bombs killed, on average, 9 more
civilians per event than aerial missiles (17 vs. 8 per event). Indeed, if an aerial bomb killed civilians at all, it tended to kill many. It seems
clear from these findings that to protect civilians from indiscriminate harm, as required by international humanitarian law (including the Geneva
Conventions),4 military and civilian policies should prohibit aerial bombing in civilian areas unless it can be demonstrated — by monitoring of
civilian casualties, for example — that civilians are being protected.
Insurgents don't use aerial bombings. Perhaps we can eliminate THOSE from the numbers said to be 'sectarian'
content.nejm.org...
It was irresponsible and inaccurate for me to claim that ALL civilian deaths are a result of the US aggression or occupation. My wording WOULD lead
someone to believe that was my point, and it probably WAS at the time.
Either way you want to slice it, aggression perpetrated by the United States, or that which is a direct result of American occupation of sovereign
nations, in the four years sampled, has been responsible for anywhere from 85,000 to over 600,000 people.
Although the exact numbers will NEVER be known, it's unfair to use the numbers above. I won't edit the Op, because it's as important for others to
get to this concession as it is me, the long way.
Iraqis WILL kill other Iraqis, that is a given. Afghanis will kill other Afghanis. They will do this at an accelerated rate when they are occupied by
the United States. In this regard, the occupation of these countries, by the United States contributes to the civilian deaths, either through US
bombings, drone missile attacks, errant bullets or assassinations. If there were not civilians 'cooperating' with the occupation forces, again, the
number of civilian deaths would decline.
The correlation between the occupation and the increased civilian violence and deaths has been established. As American forces LEAVE Iraq, the
violence lessens. Pretty clear.
To blame ALL of the civilian deaths in Iraq on sectarian violence would be as irresponsible and inaccurate as it is to blame them all on Americans.
My point remains. America is unnecessarily violent. America is occupying more than a couple of nations right now, but two of them extensively. This
presence further destabilizes the nations in question and leads to more death.
The United States should cease it's invasion of other countries under the worthless, but heart-tugging sentiment of 'bringing justice' to those
that lost their lives on American soil.
When a convicted murderer is put to death in the United States, it doesn't take 4000 cops to die and an unknown number of civilians as well in order
for that 'justice' to be served.
It's also interesting to note that some estimates put the death toll on Iraqi civilians as high as a million.
www.opinion.co.uk...
In the week in which General Patraeus reports back to US Congress on the impact the recent ‘surge’ is having in Iraq, a new poll reveals that
more than 1,000,000 Iraqi citizens have been murdered since the invasion took place in 2003.
If this is anywhere CLOSE to being true, then even a figure as low as 1 in 100 deaths being a result of the US occupation and aggression in Iraq would
mean 10,000 innocent Iraqis had died at US hands. Acceptable? Just more of those people that 'need killed?'
[edit on 14-10-2009 by KSPigpen]
