Is it wrong to feel pleasure when friends lose their jobs ?, page 2

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reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 04:25 PM by WildWookie

I wouldn't feel bad for other peoples choices. It sounds like although they were in a higher income bracket they were still living beyond their means in an exorbitant way. No one NEEDS a luxury car, much less a new one every year. It is inessential and merely a desire. That's why they are called luxuries. If your "friend" owned these items free and clear it would be one thing, but he most likely doesn't which is probably why he's freaking out. He really can't afford his lifestyle, his so called wealth only allows him to afford a higher minimum payment on credit card.

yes, he'll have to sell some of his toys and live on a less extravagant budget, but millions of people do it every day. So, although it might not be very altruistic of you to relish in his recent job loss, I don't see any reason to feel bad for him either.

Wook.

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 04:26 PM by Ulala

Yeah, humility. That's what I was thinking about.

And that's a very religious thing, isn't it ? And here I am, Mister No Faith, enjoying them being taught humility by changing economics. I'm enjoying them being brought down a peg or two and justifying it to myself on the grounds that a dose of humility will do them good.

I feel a bit sanctimonious about it all, to be honest. It's always been me that's the subject of everyone else's sanctimony (bad career choices, keeping the wrong company etc etc), now the shoe's on the other foot ... for about the first time ever. It's a new experience for me.

Jealousy ? God yeah. Who wouldn't be when his ever changing BMW's, Mercs etc pull up in my carless, tumbleweedy driveway. I'd be a liar claiming not to be jealous of their recent month long holiday in Australia ... the holiday they invited me to join them on, in the full knowledge I'd have to refuse because I couldn't possibly afford it.

Some friends, I guess. Some of you are right, they're not the greatest friends. But dump them now in their own time of need and what the heck does that say about me ? I sure didn't benefit on their way up the greasy pole ... now I'm supposed to help them as they're catapulted right back down it again ??

Phew, that'd be a real test of my own character ... will need to mull over that one

ps my "gold plated public sector pension" after 44 years continuous employment will amount to the equivalent of £118 p.w. ... a person retiring after 44 years unemployment gets £130 p.w. in social security, no questions asked ... gold pension indeed

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 05:44 PM by nixie_nox

reply to post by TheRedneck

I don't believe in heaven or hell. I believe you go hang out with God and everyone else in a place you like. I also believe that when you die and go to that place, you have to sit before God and Co. and review your life, every step and decision and action. ( I think that would have to be worse then hell imo

It does'n't matter what these people did. YOU did the right thing. They will have to review their lives, you will review yours. Who will be blushing less?

Give yourself a pat on the back.

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 05:47 PM by concernedcitizan

In the words of Morrissey, "We hate it when our friends become successful".

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 05:48 PM by nixie_nox

reply to post by Ulala

I want to confess that I actually know what you mean. My step mothers sister has always been successful. I would have to wear her children's hand me down clothes, which were better then anything I ever got. So it wasn't terrible. But everything was just seemed so flawless and easy for her. LIke being the beautiful hollywood sister.

Her and her husband started their own insurance company. Instantly became millionaires. Though they have done a lot of thing for the family, they are not evil. But are hardcore born again Christians and use the money to force people to church. For example, my stepbrother needed a place to stay. They gave him one, only if he went to church. They could even approve who he could date.

Well now legislation passed and now other insurance companies can do their business. And with the economy, they are quickly going broke, and now layign people off. Those people are family and church members.

part of me felt joy. That finally they didn't have things so easily. But I had to explain it away in my mind. LOL

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 06:52 PM by TheRedneck

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by nixie_nox

Thank you for the kind words, Nixie, but I try to never pat myself on the back. It aggravates the trick shoulder.

Re-reading my post, it does sound like I was trying to 'show off' a bit, but I really didn't intend it that way. I wanted to make the point that instead of being happy about another's misfortune, even when it may seem deserved, I think it behooves all of us to try and forgive and forget. Their misery is compounded by the fact they had it so easy for so long and have such a long way to fall.

Back at the beginning of 1987 I bought a brand new, shiny Buick Riviera off the showroom floor. It was a fabulous car, with all the bells and whistles and gadgets. It floated down the road, laughing at potholes and hills. All my friends loved the car, and I know many of them were a bit jealous.

Eventually, the car got old, and after 15 years (and close to a million miles), it no longer ran. My next car wasn't so fancy, and I missed the soft leather interior and awesome sound system and pushbutton everything that I had become accustomed to so much...

That was the best car I ever owned. It was also the worst financial mistake (wound up taking two refinances and a number of late fees to pay it off) I ever made. It also was hard, no, agonizing, to return to a 'normal' car.

These people have that feeling of loss even worse; for me, it was a car, while for them, it is their entire life. That's a bit of hell right there.

TheRedneck

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 07:11 PM by double_frick

Originally posted by Ulala
I sure didn't benefit on their way up the greasy pole

some friends?
well, to be honest i would rather be friends with extravagant people who lived beyond their means and didn't 'share' with me than with someone who expects benefit from my personal gains and secretly resents me enough to be overjoyed on the inside when i my mistakes (that have no bearing on anyone else) catch up with me.
shame on you.

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 07:41 PM by Sundancer

I don't know anything about this, I've never been on welfare collected social security or what have you, but don't they get bigger checks if they made more money? Did they pay more in???

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 08:02 PM by cryingindian

I think your title is flawed. They are either "FRIENDS(bankers or not)" or they aren't. If they're friends, then it is absolutely WRONG for you to feel PLEASURE when they lose their jobs. If they are not friends, but "bankers," then it's a different story.

How would you feel if your family members lost their jobs?

That's a better question.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by cryingindian]

[edit on 14-10-2009 by cryingindian]

reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 08:07 PM by Confused and Dazed!

What goes around, comes around! Everybody at some point, will suffer their comeuppance, Every Body!

The higher they climb, the further they fall...
Pride goes, before the fall...
Arrogance and Pride, never make good neighbors.
The high and mighty never are.

I have seen it all. From the top to the bottom. We are witnessing some interesting and frightening times to be sure.

It is never pretty to see someone lose their livelihood, regardless of their station. I try not to gloat over someones misfortunes. Even though, they may have brought it on themselves.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 12:39 AM by chillpill

reply to post by Ulala

As I said, you make your choices and live with them. You have friends that you don't have an honest relationship with, you be honest with them.

Their lifestyle may have been exorbitant...by our standards. The highly successful, well paid bankers I have met have tended to be narcissistic, sociopathic bullies. They are happy to use their expense accounts for lapdancing clubs, happy to commit adultery as a matter of course, happy to bully staff and cheat their clients.

However, I have chosen not to keep any of them as "friends", because you can choose them. I have never met a banker I have liked - but that's my issue and I wish none of them harm. That to me, is not productive. You do reap what you sow.

If they had a £525k mortgage, their annual income would be around £1 to £1.5m to service that debt (unless it was cash-backed).

To get that kind of cash paid to you by any finance firm, you need to be seriously political and cold-headed.

If you scratch under the skin of the type of psyche that needs to be in place to be that "successful", then it may point you to characteristics that would evidence that even though they had the wealth, they were potentially pretty deeply unhappy.

I have not met a guy in that line of work (and I have met hundreds through mine) who is not driven by affairs, duplicity and is deep down crippled by insecurity...

Those are the people that WE have allowed to drive our economy. It's the wrong choice.

However, I can almost guarantee that these people have been way unhappier than you overall over the last few years and I bet if you think about it, you would be able to evidence that anecdotally.

I have not met one in 16 years of dealing with those in that price bracket, who is actually "happy". However, I feel sorry for the low paid staff they drag along with them, but still get labelled as "bankers"

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 01:05 AM by 4ortunate1

Yes it is wrong but it's human nature to have these kinds of feelings. If we didn't have flaws we would be gods and most people aren't gods. I'm a god but that's a topic for another day

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 08:24 AM by nixie_nox

reply to post by TheRedneck

Oh I know you weren't.But at that moment of decision, I know that you have the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other as your struggling to decide what to do. You went the right way, and that should be commended.

We have a lot of people come into our office, who make a decent living, but are having a hard time paying bills and are floored that we can't help them. Welfare is a place of last resort, to keep people off the street, or fed if if they are. People who come in here are desperate. Yes there is fraud. But everything has fraud. But I have also seen grief at its worst. But if you have a nice house and a lot of bills, why do you think the gov't is responsible for maintaining that? "well we can't pay our bills". Neither can I. And I don't have a 3k a month mortgage. Its pretty bad when some of the employees have to apply for benefits we hand out.

people

But your right, the farther someoen has to fall, the more it hurts.

People.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 08:48 AM by kosmicjack

As the saying goes, with friends like this, who needs enemies.

It has always perplexed me how people often begrudge the success of others. I am genuinely happy when my friends and family achieve something. I want that for myself as well. You are known by the company you keep...A rising tide lifts all boats, etc, etc. Conversely, I am disappointed when they are. Energy is shared.

Beware the Crab Bucket Syndrome and seriously bad karma.

[edit on 15/10/2009 by kosmicjack]

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 09:02 AM by Merriman Weir

In answer to the OP's question, no I don't think it's wrong in this instance. If these people are in trouble financially now, they've only got themselves to blame as the wages they were on, if they'd have any sense, should have provided some kind of security net for them.

If these people were, like millions in the UK, having to get by on minimum wage and weren't in a position to create some kind of financial buffer for losing their jobs, then it would be different. Those kinds of stories are tragedies and typify how the poor get shafted time and time again. Those kinds of people didn't have the opportunity to help themselves as the banking couple did.

I was once in a similar position. I've known a couple that both worked in banking, or did until Natwest got gobbled-up by RBS and a lot of Natwest management employees lost their jobs. I'd known the man in the couple over 20 years but he'd gone from being one of dearest friends to money-obsessed bore who talked about little else other than the price of the things he'd just bought. When his wife lost her job, all his friends realised that despite them both being on relatively large wages, they'd basically frittered the lot from month-to-month - ironic given their jobs - and they were buggered financially.

To be completely honest I found it funny but it also made me angry.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 09:08 AM by AshleyD

reply to post by Ulala

I feel it is wrong to feel pleasure when anyone is in pain. Perhaps it's human nature, but still something makes me feel it's not right.

Hopefully this couple will learn a good lesson from this and revamp their lifestyle. Perhaps it will also help them have more compassion towards those who have fallen on hard times and have difficulty making their payments if the couple decides to go back into the banking industry.

We're each on our own path and we all fall flat on our faces at times. It's never wise to feel good about someone falling on their faces. Instead, hope this is a wake-up call for them.

Anyone remember the The Ant and the Grasshopper fable? Stories like this remind me of that fable. But instead of laughing at the Grasshopper (this couple), which is easy to do as the ant (someone who planned and saved), hope the grasshopper learns from his mistakes for the next season instead of laughing at him as he's freezing and hungry in the snow.

Yes, that's silly but I'm the mother of a 5 year old and that's how I talk.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 09:12 AM by Hazelnut

reply to post by Ulala

While I think you can't help what you feel, I try to remember that what I put out (energetically, thoughtfully, etc.) comes back to me eventually.

I've had plenty of justifiable reason to gloat over some people's negative circumstances, I try very very hard to never wish for negative things on them because I believe that those who have done me harm will eventually reap, in kind, what they have projected onto others. The evidence for this is all around if you care to pay attention.

Karma cannot be fooled. I prefer to rise above my petty desire for revenge on those who have made my life a living hell. Its the only chance I have to overcome negativity in this life and I take full advantage of that belief.

The ones whom I am referring to have all suffered terribly due to their own actions. Some with ill health, some with other self-inflicted issues that lead to misery. I don't gloat. I feel humbled to observe the effects of negative thoughts, desires and actions. And I would not want the same fate they have brought on themselves.

The couple in the OP will go through some life-changing times, brought on by their own actions. For you to gloat about it means you will eventually experience the same kinds of circumstances. Be careful and try to find the higher ground for your own karmic condition's sake.

reply posted on 15-10-2009 @ 09:41 AM by trueforger

The monkey mind will gloat.The Spirit will recognize we are all connected.The pleasure you feel might not be all schadenfroide.Rather it might be the relief at the karmic debt being paid,sort of a release of pressure,and you are experiencing the joy at being alive and mentally stable enough to observe the details from the past meshing with the present circumstances.This may prevent a bad circumstance in the next life,with the Karma of this life unresolved.

People like this seem to be the ''Hungry Ghosts" and according to what I have been able to pick up,these will never be satisfied.They will bleed anyone nearby in their downward spiral.Like try to sell every piece of junk,but hold tightly to anything of real value like the gold.And they will try to sell their trash to YOU at top prices which they will quote you 'what it's worth'.Best avoided.

As to the gas thing,I would have given a few coins,after making a whole production out of pulling out the change purse.Never topping up their tank.Just enough to get them home and to the station in the morning.It's like telemarketers,if you ever give,seems like you get put on a 'sucker list' and no matter what they say or you ask you will be getting calls for years.And they must sell your name because the calls come from all over.If you give anyone all your slack you'll not have any when you are asked by someone else,who might be able to do something with it,rather than like your friends,feed other bankers.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by trueforger]

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