Russia's Putin warns against intimidating Iran

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Current policy already allow a nuclear strike to against any aggressor
this is just showing a little muscle that's all

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Do you even read my posts?

I explained in post after post why Iran is a threat. This is because Iran is not operating in isolation. They are being backed by China and Russia and this is why China and Russia protects them at the United Nations.

You can't have a messianic zealot with nuclear weapons. If you can't see the danger in that then there's really nothing else to say because your living in fantasy land.

Iran is ran by clerics and you can't have religious zealots controlling nuclear weapons.

If this was the Vatican wanting nuclear weapons people like you would be up in arms. The left would go crazy and they would be saying the Vatican wants to start another crusade.

The reason they are okay with religious zealots in Iran having nuclear weapons is because of their hatred for Israel. Israel is not ran by men who see lights from Heaven coming down from the sky as they speak. Israel is not being ran by man who think it's their job to prepare the way for a messianic figure called the Mahdi.

Again, I have explained this over and over again. You are so worried about Israel having nuclear weapons that you don't care if these religious zealots have nuclear weapons.

Why such the blind, irrational hatred for Israel?

reply to post by Matrix Rising

I don't disagree with what you posted, Matrix.

As much as we all want peace and love, that ain't the world we live in.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Matrix Rising

 

I don't disagree with what you posted, Matrix.

As much as we all want peace and love, that ain't the world we live in.

Exactly,

We don't live in a fantasy world where everyone wants peace.

You have some who want freedom and liberty of the human conscious and you have some who want to enslave the human conscious. Some people just live in a fantasy world and they think they can reason with madmen.

reply to post by dooper

Based on past activity, I do know that Obama will lube up and grab his ankles.

No doubt,

Oh how the gods must be laughing.

reply to post by Matrix Rising

Some people just live in a fantasy world and they think they can reason with madmen.

And history tells us a different story, doesn't it?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


For your reading entertainment

Tentative Inspection Program Would Allow Russia to Visit U.S. Nuclear Sites

Russia and the United States have tentatively agreed to a weapons inspection program that would allow Russians to visit nuclear sites in America to count missiles and warheads.

The plan, which Fox News has learned was agreed to in principle during negotiations, would constitute the most intrusive weapons inspection program the U.S. has ever accepted.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who met with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, said publicly Tuesday that the two nations have made "considerable" progress toward reaching agreement on a new strategic arms treaty.

The 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or START, expires in December and negotiators have been racing to reach agreement on a successor.

Clinton said the U.S. would be as transparent as possible.

www.foxnews.com...




[edit on 033131p://bWednesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Sanctions are stupid because the only people they'll hurt are the middle class, and those are the people we want the support of.

Sanctions don't hurt the rich; they'll always find a way around them.

Sanctions don't hurt the poor, because they are still poor with or without them.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Friend the fact that I do not share your ‘blind’ love and loyalty for and to Israel does not mean I hate them.

For some reason pointing out facts about Israel means you must hate them.

Fact: Israel refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and does not allow the International Atomic Regulatory and Development Agency to review its nuclear facilities.

Fact: Israel has a nuclear arsenal.

Fact: Israel has been cited for numerous Human Rights Violations.

Fact: Israel has attacked Lebanon on multiple occasions and attacked Gaza on multiple occasions.

Fact: Iran is not threatening Israel with war; Israel is threatening Iran with war.

Fact: Israel is a Middle Eastern Nation, Iran is an Asian nation.

Now for some reason pointing out simple facts about Israel somehow equates in the minds of ‘blind’ Israel supporters as not liking Israel.

Since it is not me that causes Israel to do all those things it’s Israel that does all those things so it’s Israel that is the cause for those facts.

If it somehow is construed as being hateful in regards to pointing out such facts about Israel then that appears to be an admission then that those very real facts are not flattering to Israel and demonstrate that Israel does not adhere to or wish to adhere to the very same standards it wishes to attack other nations for the mere ‘possibility’ that other nations might similarly chose to ignore and break the same International Laws and Standards that Israel breaks and does not live up to.

Simply put the only thing that is truly threatening Middle East Peace is Israel and the United States.

Developing a peaceful Nuclear Energy program is not an act of war. Building a nuclear weapon is not an act of war.

Further your arguments of China and Russia are behind this, why exactly is it that these nations are not allowed to have political and strategic allies/?

Why is it alright for the United States to give Israel billions of dollars and sophisticated weapons, or to use violence to force regime changes in Iraq and in Afghanistan but there is something really sinister about China and Russia investing in Iran which in China’s case Iran happens to be a legitimate and major oil supplier to and in Russia’s case they are simply making a profit from selling technology to Iran.

You do realize that unlike Israel, Iran is a self-sufficient country that does not survive on charity and actually pays for the technology and merchandise that they buy?

Fact Iran has never threatened to attack Israel, Israel threatens to attack Iran on almost a daily basis.

Fact Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaties and voluntarily participates in that Treaty with the open spirit of goodwill that the Treaties are designed to promote. Israel is not a signatory to these Treaties and refuses to participate in these treaties and demonstrates no goodwill in regards to these Treaties and safeguards.

Fact Iran cooperates with and allows International Atomic Energy Inspectors into its nation voluntarily and cooperates fully in the inspection process. Israel will not even let Inspectors in to its country and does not cooperate with them.

Fact all Iran has threatened to do is respond to any attack initiated by Israel, and they would be derelict in their duty to the Iranian people as a Government if they did not respond to an aggressive military attack against their own nation.

Fact the United States of America has used it’s veto vote in the United Nations numerous times to defeat remedies initiated and formulated by the near total majority of nations around the globe to compel Israel to adhere to Human Right’s Standards, to prohibit the illegal settlement of Israelis on occupied territory it refuses to return to the people it was stolen through force of arms from, and to allow Nuclear Regulatory Investigators in to Israel’s atomic facilities. In many cases the only nation that did not vote to support an even application of the International Laws on Israel has been the United States.

How is that any different than China or Russia as well as scores of other nations using common sense and evenhanded fairness in support of Iran?

Are you really saying that the only nations who should have rights, have allies and be considered first, foremost and always are Israel and the United States?

Are you really saying that every other nation must abide by International Laws except for Israel and the United States?

Finally the fact is Iran has never denied the holocaust it has questioned what really transpired in the holocaust and what and who drove those events and who and what most benefited from it. They have done this through a review of the surviving information by an international group of Academics that Israel was invited to also participate and be in attendance but the Israeli Government refused despite the fact that Jews acting independently of Israel did participate in those academic reviews. Further Iran has never stated it wishes to destroy Israel it has simply said it would like to see the Zionist government in Israel loose it’s power and for actual Jews who want to cooperate with the United Nations and abide by International Law and Treaties and participate in them, who have a genuine desire to live in peace run Israel instead of the Zionists.

The reality is that you haven’t posted anything factual in your posts to read friend, just a whole lot of suppositions and innuendo based on how you feel and an agenda.

It’s pretty telling that people who state facts about Israel’s own real record and history and participation in the Laws and adherence to the Laws are considered enemies of Israel.

It’s pretty telling that all you are really saying is you either have to be with us, and overlook the facts and advocate for war of aggression against Iran even though Iran has not broken one law or attacked anyone, or you are against us and simply being against us makes you somehow wrong and evil.

The only nation threatening the peace in the region is Israel and the United States.

Your whole argument basically boils down to every nation on earth must bow to Israel and the United States on how Israel wants the world to be, that no other nation has a right to its own self determination and that no other nation has a right to be protected evenly and fairly by the Law and or have the United Nations protect it when it does abide by the Laws but Israel does not like them.

Still waiting for you to answer my question on what FACTS make you feel that Iran is a threat to England, the United States or even Israel.

Facts are not innuendo or paranoid delusions or a self serving quest for total dominance over everyone, and every nation.

Putin....I am tired of his crap already.

If you cut off his ears and put a hole in the top of his head he would look like a big pecker.

Russia wants to be big on the world stage yet they cannot even maintain their military properly. Ships and planes sitting idle while they rust away.

Obama must be part French because he is surrendering America to thugs without a fight. Pitiful display for America indeed....

reply to post by Common Sense says...

If you cut off his ears and put a hole in the top of his head he would look like a big pecker.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Your whole post is one big diatribe against Israel. This is such a dangerous and silly position because people become so blinded in their hate for Israel they make excuses for Iran.

Again, I said Israel is not perfect and if Israel were ran by religious zealots who see lights coming down from Heaven as they speak, I would be against them having nuclear weapons.

If Israel were trying to usher in the return of King David I would be against them having a nuclear weapon.

Of course China and Russia can have strategic objectives but that doesn't mean we have to just stand by and look stupid. Especially when their strategic interests is at odds with our strategic interest and are allies interest. What you seem to be saying is that America should just be quiet and act like stupid lapdogs to Russia and China. That's just silly and illogical.

Again, if the Vatican wanted Nuclear Weapons the left would be outraged and upset. They are okay with religious zealots in Iran having nuclear weapons because of their hatred for Israel.

Your whole premise is, Iran should have a nuclear weapon because Israel has a nuclear weapon. That's just silly and it makes no sense.

Why in the world would you want a radical, messianic regime to have a nuclear weapon and they could give this technology to radical terrorist who agree with them?

Ahmadinejad agreed that he sensed the same thing.

"On the last day when I was speaking, one of our group told me that when I started to say 'Bismillah Muhammad,' he saw a green light come from around me, and I was placed inside this aura," he says. "I felt it myself. I felt that the atmosphere suddenly changed, and for those 27 or 28 minutes, all the leaders of the world did not blink. When I say they didn't move an eyelid, I'm not exaggerating. They were looking as if a hand was holding them there, and had just opened their eyes – Alhamdulillah!"

Ahmadinejad's "vision" at the U.N. is strangely reminiscent and alarmingly similar to statements he has made about his personal role in ushering in the return of the Shiite Muslim messiah.

He sees his main mission, as he recounted in a Nov. 16 speech in Tehran, as to "pave the path for the glorious reappearance of Imam Mahdi, may Allah hasten his reappearance."

www.wnd.com...

Iran is being ran by a religious zealot. If this was Israel I would be against them having nuclear weapons.

This guy can pass this technology to terrorist. Have you forgot 9/11, the USS Cole and other bombings? Terrorist with nuclear technology would be very dangerous.

I already know your response...Israel, Israel, Israel.

Why the blind, irrational hate for Israel?

reply to post by patmac


Your analogy was quite spectacular. Kudos my friend. It's nice to see someone showing signs of real thought.

Originally posted by patmac
It's unfortunate that this series of events seems to be almost unavoidable.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, but Iran is actually being bullied, and threatened by so many countries at once. I somewhat understand Iran's level of paranoia. So far, Iran is already complying with us/eu demands and it STILL seems like the US/Israel are picking a fight.

The entire situation feels like a scene from a school yard playground.

A small group of bullies (US/EU/UN) are forcing a particular child (Iran) to get off of the playground swingset. "You're not part of our (Bilderberg) group!" So git over there!" So the child slowly gets off and moves over to the sandbox instead. The bullies seem to be immediately bored with the swingset and move over to the sandbox, this time demanding that the child empties his pockets as well. The child once again yields and ultimately leaves to tell the principal (Main Stream Media) on them.

After hearing the news, the principal immediately runs over to the bullies to ask them questions. The bullies begin to lie ("He had a knife in his pocket! He was going to stab us!"), the principal notices that many of the bullies have wealthy parents that have donated to the school before. Through the principal's perspective, it is best to listen to the bullies first.

The principal forces the child to stay in detention (Sanctions) while he calls the cops (UN Investigators) to search his locker for weapons. Regardless of if the kid had weapons or not, the rumors are already circulating and the president is forced to suspend the child. It is at this time that the PhysEd teacher (Russia) steps in and explains that he has been observing the playground for a while, and the bullies have a pattern of picking on the child. The principal (Main Stream Media) responds to the teacher; 'Have you been drinking on the job again?'

And this is where we currently are in the story of the playground.

Just my observation.

Hahaha!!! I'm amused to the point of laughing, or LOL if you are so inclined
This sums it up perfectly, you are a master writer my friend and will be added as such.
I can't even say how much I enjoyed reading that!

The US should choose a pretend enemy and stick with it already.

Is it Iran that you want to be your boogeyman? Or North Korea? Or Russia? Or China? Canada maybe eh? What is it with the US and always trying to find a "fake" enemy worthy of wasting attention on? Or is that just a method of entertainment?

For some time Iraq was this big evil entity for US, and Americans were just itching to cross it off their "invade/liberate" list. Great - you conquered Iraq, found approximately zero WMDs, wasted hundreds of billions of dollars, and directly or indirectly caused hundreds of thousands of deaths. Why not take some pride in US's accomplishments and rest for at least a decade (or at least get the war sorted out).

But no... the attention span of the people is lacking, and now so many are once again itching to have some new "evil" entity to spar with. On to Iran. Or North Korea. Or Russia. Heck - people can't agree on who to fight next - maybe just declare war on all "evil" and "un-American"?



Really? Has Iraq taught you no lesson?

1. Sanctions against authoritarian regimes blessed with oil DO NOT WORK

2. Trying to achieve anything through UN is futile

3. Reasons for any war can be invented, and one can make a good case for invading virtually any country on earth

4. Do not pick a fight with large country with major rebel/insurgent potential - it cannot be won

5. Policing the world does not gain you any favors from other nations

6. The US is only empowering Iranian leadership with threats and meaningless sanctions by allowing it to consolidate more power and to unify the country moraly


None of this is complicated stuff. Honestly - why this eagerness to antagonize Iran? Sure it has a despotic regime with extremist laws. Sure its leader likes to run his mouth. And yes - it is trying to develop weapons, possibly nuclear. None of these factors make Iran unique in the world, or threatening to America or NATO. It might be a threat to Israel, but no more so than Israel is a threat to Iran. Israel is a big boy - it can deal with it; there is no need for daddy to get involved.




Putin's main point - is that sanctions and threats against Iran will not work and will not improve the situation in any way. In fact they may aggravate the problem. If only all problems in the world were as easy to solve as slapping sanctions and threats left and right. Iran's nutcase leadership thrives on antagonism and threats - in part it still exists because of them. Some people treat sanctions as if it is some miracle cure for world's ailments.

For one thing, there is no urgent need for US to deal with Iran - you are looking for a solution when you don't even know the real problem. For another thing, there are more effective means to deal with Iran and weaken its leadership, and as recent "elections" have shown the rotten system will collapse from the inside.


[edit on 14-10-2009 by maloy]

reply to post by maloy


It is naive to think we don't have enemies.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
It is naive to think we don't have enemies.

I never said the US has no enemies. It has plenty. But should not be an excuse for US government to invent enemies or go looking for new ones. Today the US has plenty of very real enemies to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, in part because it went looking for them not because they already existed. So why no finish that fight before turning your attention elsewhere. Multitasking has never been regarded a genious move when it comes to war.

First identify your real enemies and distinguish them from perceived one. Then prioritize among your enemies. Then consider the consequences of taking them on. Only then make threats.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hi Proto, the things you have pointed out can be said of many if not all countries.

Can we take one point at a time.

You say Iran has never threatened Israel?

Ahmadinejad wants to wipe Israel off the map

www.youtube.com...



I can love the Iranian people and still dislike Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

I do believe we live in unprecedented times.

reply to post by maloy


Don't get me wrong I don't want anymore fighting.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Fact: Israel refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and does not allow the International Atomic Regulatory and Development Agency to review its nuclear facilities.

They ain't stupid.

on the other hand,

Tentative Inspection Program Would Allow Russia to Visit U.S. Nuclear Sites,

That's stupid IMHO.