American flags banned at Albany apartment

Jim Clausen was "shocked" when the manager of the Oaks Apartments in Albany told him he could face eviction if he did not remove the American flags that fly from his Jeep and motorcycle when they are parked at the complex.

Barb Holcomb, who manages the Oaks Apartments at 1440 Geary Circle S.E. for owner Stan Keller, said Clausen is correct.

She is requiring that tenants take off any flag that flies from their vehicles, and that includes the Mexican flag and college team flags.

Political and religous signs at a tenant's unit also are not permitted.

"I'm trying to avoid any conflict," Holcomb said. "I have a problem when tenants' rights to free speech come into contact with other tenants' rights of peaceful enjoyment. This policy is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.

"We're a diverse community here, and we've had previous problems with this sort of thing," she said.

From Here: American flags banned from vehicles at Albany apartment

I'm not sure what to think here. The American Flag should should be permitted anywhere in America, and it being displayed should not be taken as offensive to anyone in America.

-E-

[edit on 14-10-2009 by MysterE]

Since he is a tenant I believe he is on private property. Unfortunately they probably do have a right to refuse them to be posted. It is not right... however legally I believe they can do that.

They're not singling out the American flag, they're banning all flags and religious symbols. It's private property. AFAIK, the management has the right to limit what can be displayed in the common areas, especially since they're not picking on any one group.

A strong argument could be made that flags and religious symbols are often the cause of fights, including wars in many cases. Holy wars are common. Every war I know about has involved flags. I could see where someone might not want these tokens of nationalism and factionalism to be displayed.

reply to post by MysterE

"I have a problem when tenants' rights to free speech come into contact with other tenants' rights of peaceful enjoyment. This policy is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.

So he's a constitutional lawer as well as running an apartment. Since when has freedom of speech been restricted for someones peaceful enjoyment? The man is obviously a moron. And an idiot.

My peaceful enjoyment has been interrupted by his idiotic comments about the flag. He should be sent away.

NOW!

He can set whatever rules he likes.I would probably delve more into this issue if he was specifically not allowing just the american flag,but it seems to be all flags so he is hardly targeting a certain group of people.Simply doesn't want any flags on his property,hardly something to get worked up about imo.

The option to move out is always there. Anyone who thinks this is an attack on an individual's freedom is a moron. Freedom stops when you don't own the ground you want to be free on.

reply to post by earthdude


So I have to "own" the sidewalk if I want to protest? I have to "own" the park where I want to give a speech?

Any time you start putting limits or restrictions on the freedom of speech you are entering a dark path that won't lead anywhere happy.

ANY restriction is a slam against ALL free speech.

Originally posted by earthdude
The option to move out is always there. Anyone who thinks this is an attack on an individual's freedom is a moron. Freedom stops when you don't own the ground you want to be free on.

Tell that to the Native Americans.

I guess your point just crashed and burned, because they DID OWN the land but guess what? Bullets changed that.

So this guy thinks he "owns" that land eh? Well, will he still own it when hes dead?



No one owns land, its impossible!

The land OWNS you!

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by earthdude

 

So I have to "own" the sidewalk if I want to protest? I have to "own" the park where I want to give a speech?

Any time you start putting limits or restrictions on the freedom of speech you are entering a dark path that won't lead anywhere happy.

ANY restriction is a slam against ALL free speech.

I agree.

If freedom cannot stand EVERYWHERE, than it will have great trouble standing ANYWHERE.

Totalitarianism sneaks in everywhere, I swear. Even in video games it's rampant.

I personally think its a good idea to remove ALL forms of flag, there is always going to be someone offended by whatever flag is flying, over here in the UK you can't have an English flag flying as you get branded a rascist, but other nationalities can have the on their cars , house windows, even t-shirts, but as soon as there's a St.George , its " look theres a rascist nazi, homophobe" kind of mentality. its so sad you can't show your love of your country these days, But IF ALL peole took down their flags then there'd be less arguments.
If I had a bar I'd ban ALL flags, ALL chat about politics, religeon, and football as they cause more arguments I feel. best get rid of them all I think, if we got shot of religeon, politicians and football then we'd recognise us for what we are , Human beings, not some faceless meatsack who supports something different from you.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by earthdude
The option to move out is always there. Anyone who thinks this is an attack on an individual's freedom is a moron. Freedom stops when you don't own the ground you want to be free on.

Tell that to the Native Americans.

I guess your point just crashed and burned, because they DID OWN the land but guess what? Bullets changed that.

So this guy thinks he "owns" that land eh? Well, will he still own it when hes dead?

No one owns land, its impossible!

The land OWNS you!

They owned the land but they didn't own it? I hope you can resolve this internal conflict you have.

A few helpful points:

1) The Constitution provides zero protections from anything not government.

2) This falls entirely into Contract law, and under our system of government, we have unlimited right of contract.

3) So what, when you own your own land, you can (at least in theory, or historically) do what you want. A nation of kings right?

4) Property rights trump many things, and rightfully so. I'd actually say property rights are not strong enough anymore.

That's all.

Peace
KJ

It's probably a good way to avoid conflict.
But how ridiculous has it become when Americans are not
"allowed" to fly an American Flag IN America?

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Tell that to the Native Americans.

I guess your point just crashed and burned, because they DID OWN the land but guess what? Bullets changed that.

So this guy thinks he "owns" that land eh? Well, will he still own it when hes dead?

No one owns land, its impossible!

The land OWNS you!

Yes, they had what we wanted and we took it. You don't think America is a super power by being Mr. Nice Guy right?

We took it and applied our rules to it. As long as that continues he does own it, but only that far.

Is this what you call "freedom"?

You can't even own an American flag without gettiing evicted.

When I was stationed at a near by AFB in Sacramento, I lived off base in Folsom CA. The apartments name is Sherwood Apartments. And I was not allowed to fly my American flag there either.
The Kalifornia laws and Mannschaftsführer Schwarzenegger allow them to do this.

I used to fly the American flag proudly. Now, when I see a person flying the flag I catigorize them as sheep who have fallen for the scam perpetrated by the neocons. I know this stereotyping is wrong, but I can't avoid it. The flag flyers are flying it out of ignorance and supporting an evil empire.

Originally posted by earthdude
The option to move out is always there. Anyone who thinks this is an attack on an individual's freedom is a moron. Freedom stops when you don't own the ground you want to be free on.

We aren't even talking about land here. The apt. complex owner wants the flags removed from vehicles. Vehicles that are not a permanent fixture of the complex nor are they owned by the complex. I have lived in apts. in the past that restrict anything hanging from balconies and railings. But, I have never had rules in an apt. that applied to my vehicle and what may or may not adorn it.

One exception might be if I drove an "Uncle Buck" car that backfired on a regular basis. I wonder what this apt. complex owner would do to a Mini owner who had a Union Jack painted on its roof.

Originally posted by jibeho

We aren't even talking about land here. The apt. complex owner wants the flags removed from vehicles. Vehicles that are not a permanent fixture of the complex nor are they owned by the complex. I have lived in apts. in the past that restrict anything hanging from balconies and railings. But, I have never had rules in an apt. that applied to my vehicle and what may or may not adorn it.

Actually, property rights are exactly the point in this.

They own the land the parking lot and "improvements" are on. You own the land, you make the rules.

It's that simple, even with the infringements that have been made on personal property rights, that much is still reasonably true.

Add contract law to it and I see the tenant as having no real remedy to this.

What i get angry at are the people who bow down to this crap. Get your flags out and fly them. Theres nothing wrong with flying the English flag or the USA flag. This is what wrong...people are falling for this crap.

In this case if you are on Prv property well thats up to the person who runs the joint. If you don't like it then move!

Tsom87