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Human Resources

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posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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Very interesting thread Whitewave. I'm afraid I must make haste here but will post when I get a chance. Look foreward to it.

Very interesting responses to your OP.

Thanks,
Orangetom




posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Good to see you on the boards, OT. Agree that there are some interesting people on ATS and some deep thinkers. I look forward to your input.



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Whitewave,

Thanks for this Thread and as the OP you have opened up a big can of worms to those who can see hear and understand beyond the next sound bite in our lives.


We view them as products having come off the assembly line for our use or pleasure. If they do not meet factory standards (as set by ourselves-every man is right is his own eyes), then that human resource is "defective". They must either be sent away to be "fixed" or destroyed.

They must work so that we may continue to acquire and consume. They must have the moments of their life sacrificed for "the greater good" because they are not their own. As a human resource, they belong to all consumers.


As near as I can tell White Wave...one of the names for this kind of selling, trading and bartering of ones soul and even the souls of others...is..."diversity."

I don't believe most people think of it in those terms but when you break down all the cheap verbage surrounding the concept of "diversity" it means toleration of any and everything no matter how nonsensical or you are one of all those things you describe...defective...etc etc. You are not PC as so many unthinkingly claim.

I began to sense this years ago ..but never quite let it gel down to what it is...the lowest common denominator in civil conduct while defining ourselves by every cheap transient thing to be merchandised next. All this while claiming the lowest common denominator is a mark of excellence and to be promoted as greatness and honorable.
To me this tack cannot be accidental but deliberate, planned, carefully structured and cultivated. If it is of economics it must be political as well.

As to the "greater good" and "As a human resource, they belong to all consumers" ,I reject this simply because whenever experts or those of high emotions try to go down this road I know immediately that one thing will be missing from the debate.

That missing thing or concept never recognized by those who demand the ability to consume...is who will be taking or making the "RISK" for others to consume...or be persons who define themselves by what they consume.
And I know lots of peoples like this.

Often accompanying this type of mentality is something I don't like at all...and that is an "entitlement" belief. I just don't care to be around people who believe in entitlement.


If they balk at such inhumane treatment, they are stamped "defective"; ie, domestic terrorists, fringe lunatics, right or left wing nutjobs, useless eaters. They can not be allowed to continue their faulty programming and must be brought back into "correct" thinking.


Whitewave, the very sad thing about this kind of statement I quote of yours above...is that this is the very tack our body politic is beginning to make and think they are entitled to make..while being ignorant enough to call this leadership. It is not leadership ..it is entitlement mentality on the part of the body politic. The danger of this kind of entitlement mentality by the body politic is that they are financing public education and thereby teaching this false and misleading template to our inexperienced, gullible, and overly emotional children.

What this also does on the part of the body politic is that it shows great insecurity and at the same time by this insecurity ...a lack of leadership.
This has been going on for many years now but accelerating rapidly in its decline. It is to me a sign of this very rot you are want to describe. It has moved into our leadership...just like Ancient Rome.


I left out a few categories but you get the idea. All these human beings were in one way or another a defective "resource". How can I consume a defective resource? In the minds of many today, the inability or unwillingness of one human being to be consumed by another is, in itself, a defect.


There is one glaring and very acute problem with this line of thinking and I am not sure that many people catch on to it about being a resource or defective as a resource. And this is very telling to those who are savvy enough to recognize the pattern operating here. What is it that is missing here?? Do you see it for what it actually is??

There is a type of very sick circular reasoning in this ability to consume....and ostracize if one cannot consume. It causes something to be missing ..something we are supposed to have as Americans. And that is freedom and liberty to say no...to reject this dogma...this religion if you like.

This is a type of seduction and coercion and it is not of Liberty and Freedom. That is what is missing. It is of feudlism and a royal class.


I and others like me am left with little recourse. We can drop out, cheat or change the rules of the game. I choose to change the rules. If I can. I am not a number. I am not cattle to be branded, herded or slaughtered for someone else's consumption


Shhhhhhhh!!! Quiet Whitewave!! I wouldnt want anyone out here to know I have a set of lockpicks in my back pocket along with lock shims and know how to use them to change the rules of the game when needed. Shhhhh!!


I am a human being. I have a soul. I think. I dream. I laugh. I cry. I aspire. I am my own and no one owns me. I owe no one anything but the gift of my humanity I choose to share with them.


Exactly correct Whitewave. Precisely!! I owe no one anything but the humanity I "choose" to share with them. My choice not theirs. Not by guilt politics or default settings to play through on the RISKS of others.

LOL LOL Whitewave..in your third post down you share example of human devaluation.

I will give you this one which happened to me in a grocery store some time ago.

I went into the grocery store early one morning to make some purchases. When I got to the cash register there were two cashiers talking to each other across the aisles. No one in line at either register. So I quickly moved my cart into the nearest empty line and begin unloading and be rung up by the cashier. The cashier promptly notifies me that this is the express lane...the other lane is the non express lane. I looked at her for a moment then down at the conveyer belt and shook my head. I put my moneys back in my pocket and walked off leaving my stuff on the conveyer belt and in the cart.
This young girl was sort of surprised...and asked. "Your coming back aren"t you??" I shook my head and stated..."NO." It was her turn to be incredulous and she gasped in surprise.

Dont step on the grass
Paper or plastic
Keep to the right.

Sorry but I dont agree with being dehumanized in such a manner by any cashier or anyone else for that matter.....anywhere. I can get groceries lots of places for now. This grocery store is not sitting on the only one in town. I dont like people telling me to go down the chute like some cattle to a slaughterhouse.

It was the same thing at a video store. I had a small stack of videos iin hand and was looking at the lengthy line debating whether to look for more videos or stand get in said line. Some clerk comes up to me and tells me I need to get in line. I looked at him and handed him all the videos and said bye.

I really am pretty much anti social except with those peoples with whom I "choose" to interact. The rest can pretty much pass on by. This is one of the reasons I dont care to work day shifts and havent done so for years and years. I have never been much of a "daywalker" for the very reasons you outline above in your OP. I find much of that kind of conduct offensive and dont care to be subjected to it or participate in the treadmill. I will go my own way thanks. Leave me alone..If I want something from someone else..I will ask.


There seem to be no options for those of us who don't care to contribute to the ongoing decay that is society today and yet who respect our fellow human beings enough to not want to inconvenience them.


Interesting way you have phrased this. I tend to agree with it.

Smoking Jaguar 67,


Happiness cannot be gained from retail therapy.


LOL LOL..very interesting words you use to describe the disease. I will remember that and use it when I can. Thanks for planting the concept in my mind. Well said...well said.

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Whitewave,

Thanks for this Thread and as the OP you have opened up a big can of worms to those who can see hear and understand beyond the next sound bite in our lives.

I suspect that will be a pretty short list so the can of worms will wriggle out of sight quickly enough to not cause any distress.

As near as I can tell White Wave...one of the names for this kind of selling, trading and bartering of ones soul and even the souls of others... is... "diversity."

Maybe we're working off of different definitions but I wouldn't define it as diversity so much as political correctness. Diversity is not a dirty word but it's undeniable that birds of a feather tend to flock together and ill tolerate that which is different. The differences don't have to be bad or wrong, just not preferred. In the name of "tolerance" we are denied our human right to preference. I have a Chinese restaurant that I frequent, always ordering the lemon fish. It's quite good and because of my restrictive diet, it's one of the only allowable items on the menu for me. The proprietor always asks me if I'll try something that is no doubt equally delicious THIS time and I always tell her the reason for my choice. She shakes her head and "teases" me that I am too narrow and restrictive, afraid to branch out and try new things." Having a preference in anything at all, even Chinese food, it seems, is considered not politically correct. I must sample everything on the menu of life or I am narrow and rigid. It can't be something as simple as shrimp drops my blood sugar, no, it has to be that I'm shrimpaphobic. Maybe I'm a "shrimpist" (unreasonably intolerant of crustaceans). Having a choice in selection means having a choice to say "NO" to all but the one you prefer. Diversity allows us a choice but political correctness denies us the opportunity to exercise a preference; insisting that we sample all whether we want it, like it, or have adverse reactions to it.

I began to sense this years ago ..but never quite let it gel down to what it is...the lowest common denominator in civil conduct while defining ourselves by every cheap transient thing to be merchandised next. All this while claiming the lowest common denominator is a mark of excellence and to be promoted as greatness and honorable.
To me this tack cannot be accidental but deliberate, planned, carefully structured and cultivated. If it is of economics it must be political as well.

I agree that such programming has been intentional but until recently the effects were mainly limited to certain groups like politicians. Now, it seems that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon and is competing with one another to see who can degrade themselves the lowest (who is most marketable), who is able to obtain the highest bidder (Ever watched an episode of 'Girls Gone Wild'?) The more outrageous the behavior, the more valued the outrageous one becomes. I heard some young women (20's) verbally patting each other on the back for having chastised a nemesis. By their rude, disrespectful and vulgar outpourings, they placed themselves on a pedestal they called "courage". Loutish behavior has become the new standard of excellence. If you can belittle, humiliate or insult someone in a spectacularly abrasive manner, you have shown your skills (all skills are marketable) and thereby proven your worth (increased your market value). Those refusing to participate in such behavior are "marked down" in value.

That missing thing or concept never recognized by those who demand the ability to consume...is who will be taking or making the "RISK" for others to consume...or be persons who define themselves by what they consume.
And I know lots of peoples like this.

What is particularly insidious with this concept of risk is that the stakes have become much higher than any of us could have imagined. We are risking our very humanity; our "divinity", if you will. The crowning of creation is being reduced to the rank of mere animal. There was a time when we held human beings to a higher standard than animals but no more. Now animals have the same rights as human beings. I'm all in favor of being a good steward of the planet and it's bountiful blessings and count cruelty to animals as a decidedly "nonhuman" thing to do but we are so much more than animals. If we begin to identify on a personal level with animals then we start to view ourselves and each other as "food on the hoof" or "beasts of burden". There may be a few naturally endowed or gifted ones who will wind up as someone's "pampered pet" but how is that celebrating our humanity?

It is to me a sign of this very rot you are want to describe. It has moved into our leadership...just like Ancient Rome.

We know how Rome fell and America bears a close resemblance to that ancient empire. We were founded on Greek philosophy, Hebrew religion and Roman politics. We are repeating history.

There is a type of very sick circular reasoning in this ability to consume....and ostracize if one cannot consume. It causes something to be missing ..something we are supposed to have as Americans. And that is freedom and liberty to say no...to reject this dogma...this religion if you like.

This is a type of seduction and coercion and it is not of Liberty and Freedom. That is what is missing. It is of feudalism and a royal class.

All the "isms" we argue over are arbitrary divisors. Right wing, left wing. The eagle has flown the coup so it doesn't matter which wing we're on! Fat, skinny, rich, poor, middle class, upper class, youngster, elderly.....we're PEOPLE. First and foremost we are all of the family of man. We're all on the same sinking boat and arguing about who has the better seat or who will be the best dressed corpse makes no sense to me. The very concept that one human being is innately better than another by right of birth is THE GREAT LIE we've all bought into to one degree or another.

I owe no one anything but the humanity I "choose" to share with them. My choice not theirs. Not by guilt politics or default settings to play through on the RISKS of others.

This is the lesson I feel we must all learn or perish. When I hear people scream "Wake Up!", I wonder if this is what they mean because until we wake up to this most basic fact of our humanity; the very defining of humanity, none of us will every truly be "awake". Any progress or forward development must first stem from this basic premise.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by whitewave]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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Very interesting thread, Whitewave. It initially caught my eye because that is my profession's "title" - Human Resources. After working in the medical field for many years I decided to switch careers, isolate the management part into one specific field, HR, which I was doing anyway but HR in particular interests me far more.

I admit I never stopped to think about that title in quite the way you're written about, but my job is to solve personality clashes and other issues in the workplace, and I take that work very seriously, it means a great deal to me to help lift people up and potentially turn their way of thinking around so the end result is a more positive work environment.

First of all, to understand what I mean by that you have to understand that I try to live my life under the "golden rule" aka ethic of reciprocity. I believe in treating people how I would wish to be treated, and try to instill this mentality in others, and this is the foundation for how I resolve the majority of the HR situations I have come across. It is such a basic, simple way of turning things around but with rare exceptions it usually works.

So while the term "Human Resources" may seem similar to "you're just a number", bear with me while I explain what my "HR" job entails.

I believe that the majority of people have tremendous potential when given enough positivity. I think that the negative charge the world is facing has been significantly increasing over the years at about the same pace as our technological advances. People are so used to all the latest gadgets that they've forgotten simple kindnesses. Even the gadgets (television, video games, etc.) are full of negativity and inhumanity. I compare my grandparents' reminiscences of "the way things used to be" to the environment my teenage daughter is growing up in and it's like night and day.

I believe, as you do, that one-on-one positive interaction goes a very long way. I believe that if people are exposed to acts of kindness, empathy and simple positive gestures that the negativity can be ultimately turned around, or hopefully at least "switched off" long enough to make them think. People want a spark, they are looking for hope.

Any time I'm asked to consult with a company that's having HR issues the first topic we discuss is the principles behind the "golden rule". (People learned it in kindergarten, but over years of negativity they have let it fall to the wayside.) People want to be reminded of it, most people are inherently good and they want things to be better. Most of us yearn to be positive people but for some that hope is buried deeper than in others.

If I can have a conversation with someone, and get them to realize that they alone are responsible for their own happiness, to attain that happiness, and to consistently encourage them and then promote the "pay it forward" thought process, so to speak, and keep on doing that with person after person then that makes me feel like I've accomplished something significant. If I can compliment someone on a job well done, and encourage them to do the same to other people on the job, and keep on spreading the positive interaction with each other then maybe they'll take it off the work site to their families and friends. I'm not Miss Rainbow Brite (
) by any means but the truth is we all have it in us to put forth kindness on some level every day, to someone who most likely will appreciate it.

I had a lady I worked with who was initially one of the more selfish and abrupt people I've dealt with. After conversations with her I found out her life had been awful. It was a defense mechanism. Understanding and communication usually works. Most people absolutely do react to positivity, to compliments, to offers of friendly assistance. They just may grumble at first because positivity may have been absent from their life for a long time. It took a while working with this woman and one day I walked in and she initiated a "good morning" to me (something I always had to say first) and complimented me on my dress. She offered to help more often, unsolicited, she changed quite a bit for the better. People have bad moments, we're all human, but it's my opinion that people innately want to be happy. (Really, I didn't drink the Kool-aid.
)

Another instance, not work related: My daughter and I went to the grocery store and a lady was behind us in the checkout line, she was disabled in a motorized cart with a bunch of groceries in the basket in front of her. My daughter asked her if she could help her put her groceries onto the conveyor belt and the lady said "my goodness, thank you, it's so rare that anyone offers to help". Why? Why do people not offer to help? It's a basic, simple courtesy that gives the recipient a blast of positivity and good will. It's too bad people can't make it a point to just do or say one nice thing to someone every day. To your family members, friends, strangers, start now. Let's improve the positive consciousness of humanity.

People need to slow down and take the time to see, really see, each other. When you "open your eyes" you'll see that there are people out there, surly or curmudgeonly or seemingly blunt or abrupt or what have you, who are not-so-deep-down great people who just want to see a little of that spark of hope.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Orion65
 


I, too, worked in the healthcare industry for many years and changed careers. Initially, HR was called "personnel" which sounds more personal and less dehumanizing than referring to humans as "resources".

What a wonderful opportunity you have to positively affect your co-workers lives. I think we all have opportunities throughout our day whether we exercise them or not. Unfortunately, without a basic understanding of why we respond to situations and people the way we do and how we are being manipulated to degrade our view of ourselves and others, some of us will constantly need to remind others to "behave".

Years ago I noticed this trend in people that I dubbed "energy vampires". They instinctively gravitated toward people with kind hearts and generous natures and sucked them dry until their victims were burned out shells of bitterness and regret. These were people who took no responsibility for their own actions and expected that there would always be some kind person to bail them out. By such actions, they unwittingly make converts to their cause and create another energy vampire who will see the benefit in using others as human resources.

In my grandmother's time it was unheard of to EXPECT help from any source. There were crippled and disabled persons back then, elderly that were taken care of by their families and communities (churches) and resorting to begging was the absolute lowest a person could sink. If you saw someone in need you discreetly gave to them or provided an opportunity for them to earn their upkeep so as to not insult their human dignity. If some charitable person gave a less fortunate neighbor help with the intention of showing how "good" they were, it was a horrible embarrassment to the one receiving the help. People were reduced to tears to think they would be treated so "charitably". Many were actually insulted to consider that their kind hearted neighbor had been reduced to becoming a human resource on their behalf.

My! How things have changed! Now, we expect not only the goods and labors of our neighbors but their very souls. We are all endowed with a certain amount of inner fortitude in which we draw strength to face our days and even this is being extracted. We require people to "tell all", show all, expose their every emotion for our scrutiny and often our criticism. If we keep to ourselves, mind our own business then we're viewed as "secretive", "loners", "probably a terrorist or up to no good". My business, my thoughts, my reasons for doing things are not for public consumption.

Nothing is considered "sacred". I hear men and women speaking openly in public about their sex lives. Sometimes to total strangers. This is astounding to me. Have they sold or given away so much of their character that they would even auction off the memories of their highest values? Since there can be no possible benefit to the person telling or the one being told, I can only assume it is to display all of one's "wares" in order to attract "buyers". I don't think these people realize that they have become a human resource and automatically assume that everyone else is too.

Such an attitude affects every decision we make, everything we do, every belief we embrace. To step down from our lofty position as human beings into the cesspool of human resources corrupts everything touched by such a violation of our humanity.

Even what humanity and values we have left are being manipulated for the benefit of someone else's greed. When I see recruitment posters encouraging men of honor to "fight for their country" I feel a brief surge of pride to think that it is appealing to men of honor and courage who would indeed stand firm against oppression and tyranny of their fellow men. The brief moment passes and I'm reminded that our country is a corporation and the human commodity of honor and courage is being exploited to increase the profits of the corporation. A noble thing has been turned into something very unpalatable.

Women seem particularly prone to this type of seduction. We are constantly bombarded with advertisements telling us we're not quite adequate as human beings and need to re-invent ourselves as something completely different in order to be acceptable. Our apparel is out of date, our skin is bland, we smell bad; we have dust bunnies accusing us of inadequacy as homemakers. Other women reinforce the condemnation and the individual woman must conform to the group of brainwashed women in order to even survive in the workplace. Men, too have become "true believers" in the notion that women are inadequate unless conforming to the
ever changing "norm". If women want to remain marketable to the male "buyers" they must enter the fierce fray of vicious competition.

Men are not immune to the tricks of the advertising guru. In order to become a competitive buyer in this vast market of available "goods" (women), they must be the highest bidder. They must produce, labor, spend, spend, spend.

Those of us stepping off the hamster wheel stand in amazement at the actions that bear no resemblance to one human being interacting with another. Dating and interpersonal relationships have taken on the look and feel of a corporate merger with contracts, early withdrawal penalties, loss of assets, hostile take-overs, etc.

Where is the "oneness"; the mutuality; the respect; the building up together? It's been eradicated because there is no "group" profit in it, only profit to the involved individuals as human beings. Such behavior benefits and exalts their individual human status. Strong family units do indirectly benefit the community but the community has a blood lust for instant gratification.

We WANT to see the neighbors fighting on the lawn. It's better than pay-per-view. We WANT to see that 9 car pile up on the highway. It's better than ring-side seats at the circus. We WANT the dark side of human nature to show through at every opportunity so that we can lower our own personal bar a little because being a decent human being takes work. It's just easier if we're all reduced to the lowest common denominator and quit trying to achieve our full potential as human beings.

This planet needs good stewards. It will degrade into chaos without us. Human beings give meaning to the entire world. If we degrade ourselves into the level of mere animal status we'll still need stewards but we will no longer be in control of our own fate. Those who know how to masterfully manipulate us into degrading our own humanity will be in control.

Let us take back our birthright! Let us stand and shout, "I AM A HUMAN BEING!, I am NOT a number or piece of merchandise! I will NOT be counted among the king's assets! I am sovereign! I serve NO man!"



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


White Wave,


Maybe we're working off of different definitions but I wouldn't define it as diversity so much as political correctness.


Diversity is morphing into political correctness..first you have to get people by guilt and victimization conditioning to believe in diversity before you switch to the real agenda of political correctness and all the baggage which will accompany....which is what we see happening around us and the main content of this thread.

E pluribus unum..Out of many one

The problem of which we are speaking is that someone seems to want diversity while not tolerating the many or the individual/one. Only the authorized paradigm is tolerated. Mob mentality..as long as it is the controlled mob mentality.

I was taught, when coming up, that the purpose of government is to protect the rights of the individual against the many. Individual liberty.
We now have government dividing the people, both in the body politic and in the public school system, against the individual unless they fit the authorized template.

Diversity and political correctness..neither template/paradigm speak about the RISKS to accomplish this. Who will RISK for it.

Diversity has become division...by entitlement thinking and politics. Victimization and guilt politics. It is not become inner development to unify a people spiritually. I for one ...question the spirit behind it...along with its motives.


Now, it seems that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon and is competing with one another to see who can degrade themselves the lowest (who is most marketable), who is able to obtain the highest bidder (Ever watched an episode of 'Girls Gone Wild'?) The more outrageous the behavior, the more valued the outrageous one becomes.


Who is the most marketable...Wow!! Agree here. "As to girls gone wild" agree again White Wave.

I enjoy the female form as much as the next male out here but prefer it in privacy and not plastered across the big screen or out in public as a symbol of greatness or marketability. I am very dubious about any standard which comes out of hollywood or the music industry to be mimicked by those who dont think outside of their own ego and or consumption needs. Hence I am not keen on MTV or VH1 and much of what they are marketing. Even the country video circuit is following much of the same pattern/template today.


I heard some young women (20's) verbally patting each other on the back for having chastised a nemesis. By their rude, disrespectful and vulgar outpourings, they placed themselves on a pedestal they called "courage".


I know Whitewave. I remember seeing this poster everywhere I went called "Hanna Montanna." So one evening I turned on the boob tube and out of curiosity when running across this program I decided to watch it. It lasted about ten minutes. What was disappointing about it is that it seemed to follow the template of which I quoteed you above. I then used the remote to go elsewhere. The self promoting I mean. Not so much vulgar..though I consider certain self promotion done in a certain manner to be vulgar as well. I certainly dont consider it to be excellence.


Loutish behavior has become the new standard of excellence. If you can belittle, humiliate or insult someone in a spectacularly abrasive manner, you have shown your skills (all skills are marketable) and thereby proven your worth (increased your market value). Those refusing to participate in such behavior are "marked down" in value.


Agree here again. This is why I dont watch sitcoms. Nor this cartoon process called "Simpsons" or is it called "Family Guy" or are they the same program? They must be as I find them unpalatable. Nonetheless I dont watch them. Once again I tried to watch one evening and quickly used my remote to find something I considered to be of more substance.

Monkey see monkey do!! Perhapsed the olde folks were not that far off the mark.


What is particularly insidious with this concept of risk is that the stakes have become much higher than any of us could have imagined. We are risking our very humanity; our "divinity", if you will. The crowning of creation is being reduced to the rank of mere animal.


Most definitely agree here Whitewave. However I would like to enter here a proviso to this. I do not agree with a social engiineer, educator, or politician dictating to me the terms of my humanity...especially by Guilt/Victim Dictum or political correctness/diversity religious dogmas. I wil decide this for myself thank you. I am not interested in this kind of mob mentality.


[/]There was a time when we held human beings to a higher standard than animals but no more.


Indeed ..indeed Whitewave. As I am often quoting about...."Wildlife in its natural habitat." This is what many of us have become and try to pass this off as excellence or the moral high ground.


arguing about who has the better seat or who will be the best dressed corpse makes no sense to me.


Noted Whitewave. Agree once again. Well said...Well said.

Gotta go now..things to do and get done here.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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I've read people are most like "parasites" than any other living being.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by wouldu
 


Thanks for joining the conversation. Would you care to elaborate the point you almost brought up?
Do you have any experiences or considerations you'd like to add to the topic? I'm very interested to hear your views.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by whitewave

In my grandmother's time it was unheard of to EXPECT help from any source. There were crippled and disabled persons back then, elderly that were taken care of by their families and communities (churches) and resorting to begging was the absolute lowest a person could sink. If you saw someone in need you discreetly gave to them or provided an opportunity for them to earn their upkeep so as to not insult their human dignity. If some charitable person gave a less fortunate neighbor help with the intention of showing how "good" they were, it was a horrible embarrassment to the one receiving the help. People were reduced to tears to think they would be treated so "charitably". Many were actually insulted to consider that their kind hearted neighbor had been reduced to becoming a human resource on their behalf.

My! How things have changed! Now, we expect not only the goods and labors of our neighbors but their very souls. We are all endowed with a certain amount of inner fortitude in which we draw strength to face our days and even this is being extracted. We require people to "tell all", show all, expose their every emotion for our scrutiny and often our criticism. If we keep to ourselves, mind our own business then we're viewed as "secretive", "loners", "probably a terrorist or up to no good". My business, my thoughts, my reasons for doing things are not for public consumption.

Where is the "oneness"; the mutuality; the respect; the building up together? It's been eradicated because there is no "group" profit in it, only profit to the involved individuals as human beings. Such behavior benefits and exalts their individual human status. Strong family units do indirectly benefit the community but the community has a blood lust for instant gratification.


I agree with your entire post, but the above words really hit home. Have we regressed so much in the past fifty or so years spiritually and empathically? We, as human beings (across the world) urgently need to get our oneness and understanding of each other back.

Too many people don't "see", they're too caught up in the consumerism that they don't realize they're passively playing a game where ultimately someone else is holding the controls. And that game's goal is the division of the human race for negative consequences to us all.

Whitewave, you've opened up an interesting and important topic of discussion. Thank you.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by Orion65
 


In my many musings on this subject of humans as resources, my Christian leanings naturally come into play. It is not my intention to preach but to share the musings in a way that makes sense to me.


Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one? One who values all life would surely want to save as many lives as possible but not all of living is reduced to life-boat ethic choices.

The individual is the microcosm of the macrocosmic "many". What is an ocean if we don't value (or recognize) the drops of water that comprise it's vastness? When dealing with humanity the whole is not greater than the sum of it's parts. Even as a teeming mass of population we are referred to as a unit: the crowd. Humanity is a singular term. "We" are not plural. We are unique as snowflakes.

If the needs of the individual are subjugated to the needs of the many, all are diminished. And who is this "many" for whom the one must be sacrificed? Just other "ones".

To rejoice in the one is to uplift the many. Were we not all elevated when one man walked on the moon? Were we not all diminished when one man ordered the extermination of an entire race? How we view and value the one sets the standard for the collective self-image. We are not "us" and "them". We are you and me. You, singular; me, the individual.

The Objectivists so name themselves because they claim to look at life objectively; with reason and logic. (I think it's because they object to so much.)
Living is not objective. It's very subjective. We're not census takers here collecting "just the facts, ma'am". Life happens and often it happens without rhyme or reason or any discernible logic.

I've been trying to reason with a self-proclaimed objectivist who agrees that the needs of the many do not outweigh the needs of the one and so objects to Christ's sacrifice for humanity.

Christ's situation was unique. He was a unique individual (as are we all). What loving father would not give that which is most precious to him that his children might live? It's no sacrifice, really. It's your most reasonable duty and an honor to perform it. And Yahweh, being the clever fellow He is, cut his losses to a minimum. All of humanity was included on the cross but only one man suffered the pain of death. And that one man was resurrected so that we the living might experience that resurrection life without first experiencing physical death.

Sometimes when I feel the scourge of verbal and emotional abuse from my fellows, I smile graciously; determining in my heart to harbor no malice. I'm better than that. My self-esteem remains intact and untouched. I'm not so small or weak that I can be defeated by small minds or little insults. I'm greater than the fearful hearts that dash themselves against my resolve. I can afford to be magnanimous.

Does a mountain crumble when you hurl pebbles at it? Was it a sacrifice for the mighty one to put on human flesh for a brief season, close His eyes for a moment and awake in the heavens with the keys of hell and death in His hand? I think not.

The Father's plan was wonderfully economical. In "sacrificing" to the many did He not elevate the individual beyond all hope or expectation? What hope did the Samaritan have in a Jewish community? What hope did the slave have in Rome? What hope for the Gentile in a pagan belief system and what hope has any female throughout history EVER had?

Did not Christ leave the ninety and nine to save the one? If we follow the example of Christ we live a life not of sacrifice of the one to the many but of valuing the many as much as we value the one.

To say that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one is to say "you" are not as valuable as "me". Christ already made a sacrifice for all. We can quit sacrificing each other to the gluttonous collective.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


Huxley mostly and Orwell somewhat alluded that ppl would be
treated in this manner as a resource that would be functional
or need to be reprogrammed.

You can watch both of their ground breaking flicks here on
google video, but I would not watch them close to time to
go to bed as you might not sleep well.

1984

Brave New World

I remember one time one of them was asked which was most
likely to come true, and huxley said most likely orwell, and here
we are seeing most of both coming true.

Good Luck to you all !



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 


The only way Orwell OR Huxley's "vision" can come to fruition is if the people remain asleep and uninformed. One of the wonderful things about the human spirit is that it really is indomitable. When we are oppressed long and hard enough, eventually something sparks inside of us to wake us up and fight against the tyranny.

It is my fervent desire that this silly cycle would stop and we would wake up fighting BEFORE the tyranny sets in.

The concept of authority is as old as recorded history and it is this insult to humanity that needs to be defeated first. I'm not talking about licentious anarchy because that doesn't acknowledge the exalted status of humanity either. I'm talking about self-rule, self-discipline, honor, valor, truthfulness and kindness.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by whitewave
reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 


The only way Orwell OR Huxley's "vision" can come to fruition is if the people remain asleep and uninformed.


As history clearly points out some of the smarter ppl will flee
like they did in early Nazi Germany, millions stayed behind and died.

I do not pray, but I pray you are right, but history usually repeats itself.

Right now many ppl are crying out to the masses with lots of
evidence and we are simply thought of as nutters.

Even in the face of a former KGB agent explaining how what has
happened to the US was all part of the plan of demoralization.

Planned Ideological Subversion of the United States

Even a former president of the US tried to warn the American ppl.

His warning has been forgotten by most.

JFK's most fearful speech



It is my fervent desire that this silly cycle would stop and we would wake up fighting BEFORE the tyranny sets in.


I am with you 100% on that, but as most history books show the
road taken is often an ugly one.



The concept of authority is as old as recorded history and it is this insult to humanity that needs to be defeated first. I'm not talking about licentious anarchy because that doesn't acknowledge the exalted status of humanity either. I'm talking about self-rule, self-discipline, honor, valor, truthfulness and kindness.


There is somewhat of a term for what you would like to see.

Egalitarianism

I'd like to see that as well with a Technocracy that is not based on lies
as some have hijacked that movement for profit like Mr. Gore and
his company.

Proof of the hijacking is right here.

Global Warming or Global Governance ?

Al Gore should be charged with fraud, not given a Nobel prize.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by whitewave
reply to post by SmokeJaguar67
 


I recognize this very trend in myself at times and it's repugnant to me. I wonder what has stolen my peace and inner joy.

I also recognize it in me from time to time.

Some of it has to do with a reprogramming of society.

If you think back a generation or two and ppl will realize they
were for the most part VERY different ppl than most ppl walking
around today.

I credit myself being more like them to being raised a great deal by
my grand parents, and not watching much TV the last several years.

But as I stated above I fall into the same thoughts at times.



When I stop to re-assess my over reaction to most situations and scenarios in my daily life, I realize that it comes from this entitlement mentality.


This mentality will be a major factor in how far the US will fall and
how bad it will be once the house of cards starts falling in on itself.



These are not only injuries we do to our fellows but we wrong ourselves when we trade our inner peace for a false sense of justice. It is a sorry trade.


I could not agree more, and the rise in road rage, family slayings,
and work place violence is a terrible sign of it.

It is why a lot of work places now have high security, RFID badges,
and armed security at the front desk.

As in my former post the demoralization of America was planned,
and as the former KGB agent says it was DAMN effective.

I do not think it can be fixed before the wheels come off the bus.

Good Luck to you all !

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 


Maybe man was meant to live a life of hardship; enduring the physical tasks required for his own upkeep? When leisure time is increased, do we use it to improve our lot in life or the situations of those less fortunate or do we pop some microwave corn and relax even more?

We do tend to appreciate that which we have to work and sacrifice to obtain more so than if it is handed to us. The gifts (of time, mainly) that our parents and grandparents WORKED hard to give us was meant, I believe, to be a help for us so that we may devote more of our time to working on something even better.

We do our children a disservice by pampering them with things, toys, trinkets, idle time. Children today have no clue how hard life can be and see no need to learn all they can to avoid a horrible fate should some calamity occur that takes away all their luxuries.

The middle class and even dogs in this country eat better than kings of old did. Most children and many adults have never gone hungry a day in their lives. Most people have no idea how long it takes for the human body to starve because they've never had to count how close they were to dying.

We have access to air conditioning. This alone has kept many people from dropping dead of heat exhaustion in today's society. Most people view AC as a necessary convenience; not to keep them from dying but to keep them comfortable.

The concept of being comfortable was so that you could continue to work to find even more ways to keep from dying not so that you could amuse yourself with matters of no importance.

This comfortable life style has resulted in a lack of foresight and wisdom. We have become dehumanized to identify our humanity with the comfort items. That one must be "successful because they drive a really wasteful vehicle". It never occurs to us that the "successful" one may have more money for their excesses because they are thieving it from those less ruthless.

When I see someone in worn attire, scuffed shoes and a defeated, shuffling gait, I admit that I automatically assume they must be on drugs or recently released from the mental hospital. They must not be responsible people because, surely, they would take better care of themselves. Often that assumption turns out to be a correct one but there have been times when I have been way off base in my prejudgment of their circumstances.

If one of our brothers finds themselves in a position of devaluing their own worth because of circumstances beyond their control, does it not behoove us to help improve their self-worth, in order to keep from degrading our own, if nothing else.



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 05:15 PM
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The simple answer is to use our intellect and shift ourselves off of an Animal, fight or flight, survival based, unreal, psychological outlook on life as limited and resources as being scarce.

and into Reality as it is, from a place of Rational Human thought.

Reality?

We could put 90% of the people alive on this planet on a welfare system where all needs were covered, we already have unlimited clean energy, we can expand exponentially off this world to other worlds and the resources are so impossibly abundant we will never want for anything ever again from here if we choose to understand what we really have instead of operate from a natural instinct to view things as scarce.

Really just put aside your territoriality and look and it's obvious, we have nothing to worry about, we place these judgments on people, we create entirely our crisis for no reason...

Population? Labor? Sustainability? Environment? Expansion? Energy? Resources?

2/3rds of the Earth is Ocean, much unexplored... Hydro Power from Earth driven currents, aqua farming, Off shore constructed Islands, Desalinization of Water, Deep Soil Fuel and Gas deposits, Deep Sea Mines, Cities under the ocean or extending above and below... So many possibilities

On Land, The Giant Orb that rains energy on us all day the Sun, Wind, Hydrogen, Vertical farms, Green Buildings, Underground Housing, Nuclear limitless Energy, Unlimited heat, public transportation... unlimited forever even if we change things slightly...

Beneath us, The Core, more unlimited energy, deep core mining

The Moon, perfect jump off platform, colonies Can be built, space port, gravity is low enough for asteroid mining projects, moon mining projects, farms could be built underground, the ability to grow your own food create atmosphere under the surface like biosphere that can contain itself, Asteroid Mining, a single asteroid could have 17 Trillion in Platinum... Space stations bigger and bigger in NEO

Then Mars and Venus both absolutely Terraform-able, the Asteroid Belt

From there Jupiter and Saturn, at least 3 terraform-able candidates, dozens
of moons to exploit for colonies and mines that aren't

Beyond that we have bases, Neptune... Pluto many other small planetoids have recently been identified... Beyond that the Kuipier belt which contains over 35,000 objects over 100Km in size....

Beyond that the Ooort cloud holding apparently as much mass as Jupiter and extends 1/4 of the distance to Proxima Centauri, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the Centauri system has a similar cloud extending half way to here...

Which means we actually only have 2.2 light years to cross from furthest expansion point in this system to forward base in the next. Even in a Colony ship that takes 200 years... we are going to make it and keep expanding



My Point?

We use humans as resources because we view them as threats to or suppliers of what we perceive as Finite commodities because it's part of our animal nature to do so. The reality however is, we aren't running out of anything we can't just get more of or replace with bigger better.

If we began our days thinking how abundant everything is, taking the time to appreciate how much we really do have before us we wouldn't treat each other this way. It's a mental trap. We don't want to see the truth, that we are a neurotic species, that we have nothing to worry about.



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 



"I do not pray, but I pray you are right, but history usually repeats itself.

Right now many ppl are crying out to the masses with lots of
evidence and we are simply thought of as nutters.

Even in the face of a former KGB agent explaining how what has
happened to the US was all part of the plan of demoralization."

There is an example in ancient Egypt where Moses asked for a leave, not freedom from slavery even, just a blinkin' break to do one thing the people wanted to do. Pharaoh hardened his heart. Consequences ensued. Pharaoh further hardened his heart. More and dire consequences ensued. Pharaoh hardened his heart even more.

Eventually, and this is important, God hardened Pharaohs's heart.

I think the people have had ample warnings yet we continue to harden our heart. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence that what we're currently doing is ineffective, people are hardening their hearts and continue to go blithely along their way. There may soon come a time when the choice to "wake up" is no longer available.

TPTB have reached their position by being allowed to do so. They seem to serve as the furnace refining the dross from those of us made of silver. They forget that they are public servants and not masters. They ignore that their salaries are paid for by the people they continue to oppress. They've gotten entirely too big for their britches and since it was not their own volition that brought them to their current station, they will be quite surprised when they eventually topple from their lofty heights.

I, too, think the wheels will come off before any significant change occurs. Before in history there was always somewhere else to escape to and start over. With todays' pervasive technology, all the exits are being sewn shut. This is truly the end game. This is for all the marbles.

When it all collapses under the weight of it's incompetence, those who remain will need a different paradigm; one in which man does not rule over his fellow. One in which he does not become a parasite to the host of global gluttony.

As MopusVindictus mentioned, there are resources aplenty. We have the technology to improve all of life for everyone on all the planet. I don't seem to be in charge of many of those resources but what I have, I can give. I have time. I have skills. I have knowledge; all which I am willing to share. I am not willing to be made a resource for the little I possess to further the goals and greed of someone else.



[edit on 18-10-2009 by whitewave]



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 



As MopusVindictus mentioned, there are resources aplenty. We have the technology to improve all of live for everyone on all the planet. I don't seem to be in charge of many of those resources but what I have, I can give. I have time. I have skills. I have knowledge; all which I am willing to share. I am not willing to be made a resource for the little I possess to further the goals and greed of someone else.


Like you Whitewave, I am not willing to be made a resource for others not willing to partake of the RISKS needed to bring fruit from resources. To further a slacker who "would" not work. This is a very different thing from those who "could not " work.

MopusVindictus,


We could put 90% of the people alive on this planet on a welfare system where all needs were covered,


You need to think this through about the 90%. Who is going to take the RISK to keep the 90% taken care of...the 10%???

The way this kind of thinking has worked out and hidden from most of us is that governments have never been able to take care of more than 80/85% of the people on the government tab. It breaks down the economies and destroys the productive sector of the economy as we are seeing in many nations going down this slippery slope. These governments tend to quietly and unseen ...raise the deficit and print moneys to cover thier expenses..further weakening the economy and hence that productive sector. This is historically demonstratabe in the history's of many nations. And this is also true no matter how much unlimited clean energy a nation has.

Oh..by the way...how much radiation is there in space once one has gone above the protective ozone level for which we have been warned about for over 40 years..that it is breaking down??

Why are we dumb enough to shoot astronauts above the protective ozone for long periods at a time to be radiated?? How much ionizing radiation is there in deep space...you know..like out near the asteroid belts??

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


If I understand Mopus correctly (correct me if I'm wrong, Mopus) the point I think he was making is that there are abundant enough resources with proper management to be ABLE to put 90% of the population on a system of dole.

Not that it SHOULD be done but, according to my understanding, the point being that there is so much waste and mismanagement that with better utilization of the resources we have, 10% of the population COULD support the other 90%.

I may be reading more into the post than was intended but that is my take on what he meant. Again, Mopus, feel free to clear up any misunderstandings.

As for radiation in outer space that's an interesting problem. If guys can don some special suit and go clean up Chernobyl, I imagine those same suits can protect from radiation in outer space. *I'm being facetious here*

It's an curious point that was brought up, though, of the scarcity mentality that drives our actions and establishes our value system to be able to view humans as resources. We appoint cunning men or men of might to protect what we see as limited resources, promising them our loyalty and service in return.

With the realization that technology CAN free us (rather than it's current job as enslaver of man) and the certain knowledge that there's a great big world out there full of abundance, we can throw off the restrictive mentality that keeps us hoarding what few goods we think we have.

Human beings started living in communities and working together because it was easier for them than trying to do everything themselves. In a community there can be much time freed up for the individual if everyone works together for the common good.

We no longer have any freed-up time in our busy lives because the community has become a global one and not everyone contributes to it. There are a few that take more than they need and steal even more from those not able to protect what little they have.

These greedy elite have us turning on each other over matters of no importance. They keep us distracted from the real issue of an abundance paradigm in order to remain in an elevated station above their fellow men.

In a truly egalitarian society in which everyone contributes to the wealth of abundance possible, such elite would be expected to contribute their share and work alongside with the rest of us. These powerful people have enjoyed their privileged station for so long that it is distasteful for them to envision themselves as just another valuable member of society.

An authoritarian elite ARE the very heart of the problems our world are facing. People are more comfortable with the devil they know and so resign themselves to impotent grumblings and no real action.

Who knows what we could accomplish were we to throw off the authoritarian belief system and scarcity mentality? There would undoubtedly be a period of chaos as people learn to adjust to being responsible for themselves. Such a transition through anarchy is such a frightening prospect that we allow ourselves to be more thoroughly entrenched into slavery every day.

Where are the men of valor? Where are the women of virtue? If we would remain the land of the free, we must BE the home of the brave.



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