2012 Mass Delusion

The OPs Hidden Agenda

my hidden agenda when posting a very firm and dissenting opening post is to generate counter-arguments to learn whether I am missing something or not.

So dont assume Ive made up my mind about everything. I actually enjoy strong counter-argumentation.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Certainly we`re in less tribulation thatn 1939-1945, wouldnt you think?

Depends on which part of the world you live in I'd say...


Anyhow, the Maya didn't conceive of the calendar at all, they inherited it from a previous civilisation, the Olmecs, of who we know very little. Referring to the Maya being brutal tribesmen who sacrifice their kin really doesn't have anything to do with the calendar and whatever date might be the end of the cycle.

I do agree that predicting a major cosmological event to occur on a specific date in the future appears very far fetched. However, what most people don't take into consideration is the idea that the world was once populated by a (perhaps multiple) civilisation more advanced than we generally hold possible. Think of the 'discovery' by Charles Hapgood regarding the Piri Reis map for example. He proved this document, which dates back to 1513, shows an accurate outline of the Princess Martha Coast of Antarctica. An area believed to have been under an ice-cap over a mile thick, even then. It has been concluded from geological evidence that the last time this area was ice-free was at least 4000BC (We now know what the coastline under the ice looks like because a seismic survey was done in 1949)
The map was compiled only a few years after Columbus landed in America, meaning the so called civilised society wasn't even aware of the existence of the American continent (although it has been proven in the meantime that Northern Europeans already went there prior to that, but that's a different story) Let alone mapped the world. Piri Reis admitted that when compiling the map he had used documents that were very old, even in his time.

There is a theory which states that approx every 11.500 years a world changing event takes place in the form of a pole-shift, brought about by a CME during Solar Max. This is now being scientifically tested, but we already know from NASA (not the most reliable source of info, but people ask for scientific evidence...) that the next Solar Maximum is set to occur in 2012. A steady occurring shift in the Sun's magnetic poles happens every 11 years (sunspot cycle) Naturally I will not try to explain the whole theory as it would consume more than the max amount of character and bore the heck out of most people

The general idea though, is that the event at the end of this +/- 11.500 year cycle, is vast enough to destroy most life on Earth, as it generates a tidal wave over 1.5km high. Although the date in 2012 is not mentioned anywhere, the pole shift and tidal wave actually have been passed on to us in ancient documents.

Because I truly believe that advanced civilisations have existed prior to our own and have left us ancient scripts with eyewitness reports to warn us of what devestated their civilisation, it leads me to believe also that some of the prophecies we hear about might actually have a scientific basis, it just got lost over the millenia.

We know that pre-columbian civilisations in the Americas, as well as in ancient Sumer, Egypt and the Indus Valley somehow had quite accurate knowledge of the cosmos. I believe that this information was inherited from the civilisation(s) that preceeded them.

Again, I do share your idea that predicting any lifechanging event over thousands of years seems impossible. But would it still be impossible if the ones who originally predicted them were prehaps more technologically and scientifically advanced than we are???

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Mokoman]

This post is not a counter-arguement,
all i wish to point out is that the supposed end-date is based on highly subjective interpetation...

see the following:

The glyphs on the main page of this site...

www2.stetson.edu...

come from Monument 6 found at the site of Tortuguero, Tabasco and represent the only known reference to the 2012 date in the ancient texts. Parts of the text are effaced or unclear and the passage as a whole is unclear. According to David Stuart, the glyphs read:

"Tzuhtz-(a)h-oom u(y)-uxlahuun pik (ta) Chan Ahaw, ux(-te') Uniiw. Uht-oom ? Y-em(al) (?) Bolon Yookte' K'uh ta (?).

"The thirteenth pik will be finished (on) Four Ahaw, the third of K'ank'in. ? will occur. (?) the Nine Foot Tree God(s) to (?)."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


later in the end time interpetations offered by actual Maya spokespersons
this particular forecast seemed important to me:

source:
www2.stetson.edu...

""The time of the year Thirteen B'aqtun on our solar calendar of 365 days, a time of great social, political, economic and spiritual changes in our region, America and the entire world ... From the day One Aj, of the yearbearer Eleven Kame ... the 29th of April of 1991 enters the influence of Thirteen B'aqtun of which we are in the first cycle of thirteen, within two cycles when they mark the year 2020 plus 2 all the prophecies of Thirteen B'aqtun will be fulfilled on the yearbearer Eleven Kame. For conscious beings, the children of honey, the sixth sun, they will be marvelous changes of light, but for the heartless unconscious who treated the Heart of Sky and Heart of Earth Nature poorly, it will be a life of justice and cruelty. Right now we are awaiting the time of One B'atz and One Chowen, day of inspiration of the Dawning."
~ Chuchqajaw Kaqchikel Achi Ijatz, Apolinario Chile Pixtún (2005) Coordinador Titular of the Gran Confederación de Consejos Principales Ajq'ijab' Mayab' de Guatemala.~

a read through the list (from above link) of calender end forecasts by Maya people are a lot less Armageddon-ish than the pop-culture westernized & sensationalized versions.



i hope this is my last contribution to this beaten-to-death 2012 stuff


[edit on 16-10-2009 by St Udio]

This is an OOPS post....sorry

[edit on 16-10-2009 by St Udio]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I appreciate Michio Kaku, but keep in mind that prior to 2000 and also prior to 1900 there were also many thousands of scientists and pseudo-scientists talking about "what could possibly happen".

I´d prefer them talking about what is most likely to happen.

Yes, but none of those times were we facing the threats that even science shows are happening.

Thank you for the applause, at least you are not completely closed minded.

I read your posts, and I might have misunderstood what you were trying to say.

No one is superior to anyone else. We all have different skills that other people might, or might not have, it makes us different, not superior.

I am not sure if those people who call themselves star children claim to be superior since I haven't read such claims, but if they claim so they are wrong.

BTW, if you read the thread to which I gave a link, there is a lot more information there, including scientific information, as well as what a great man, Father Malachi Martin, warned us about.

You might think this man had no proof for what he said back then in 1997, but this was a learned man that knew many secrets of the vatican, and who was even a personal friend of the last pope.

Father Malachi Martin, in 1997 warned us about something that was approaching from space, and which the Vatican knew, and this would have great import for all of us in the future.

Years later we started to find out the information from NASA, and ESA which I gave in that thread, and some of the information which I gave in this thread.

According to Malachi Martin this was the reason why the Vatican has some control over Mount Graham International Observatory.

I am not sure exactly what it is, but it seems that we have been entering a new region of space, but there are other anomalies that point to the possibility that there is something with enough mass to affect satellites, comets, and even every planet in the Solar System since there has been a secular increase in the AU, or the distance between the Sun and the planets. This is also affecting the planets in other ways, some of which I mention in the fragile Earth thread.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

My Predictions for 2012

The Kyoto Protocol expires

China launches the Kuafu spacecraft

The Supercomputer Pleiades will be completed

The biggest Damn removal project in History will take place in Washington State.

Ireland and Portuga will cease analogue TV broadcast.

Originally posted by St Udio

i hope this is my last contribution to this beaten-to-death 2012 stuff

Hang around and help save a few souls from suicide-cults.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I dont know much about the suns activity, the suns axis flipping, solar flares etc. but I´ll study up on it in your thread.

It makes sense looking for cosmic causes for climate change.

Mixing climate change issues with 2012 though...I dont know about that. Some odd weather to be expected in 2012 does not justify armegeddon prophecies, new-age-predictions and psychedelic mayan mysteries...

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thank you for posting this, Skyfloating. You've summed up how I feel about this 2012 nonsense. What's really disturbing is the sheer number of people that buy into this. All you have to do is look at Evasius' Timewave Theory thread to see what I mean.

I've argued that, just like the year 1000, 2000 etc predictions are made and nothing happens, only to have someone create interest in another date.

We should be worrying about what's happening now and focus on living our lives today instead of being fixated with fictional future events.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Mixing climate change issues with 2012 though...I dont know about that. Some odd weather to be expected in 2012 does not justify armegeddon prophecies, new-age-predictions and psychedelic mayan mysteries...

An increase in natural disasters makes perfect sense if there is a brown dwarf heading this way. Id say its the best theory out there that really ties every prophecy about 2012 together. The signs fits.

In 2007 we witnessed the Hopi blue star prophecy come true. It was larger than the sun itself and certainly qualifies as something very unique on our skies.

The more I read about all this, the more I think it fits together.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I was not very familiar with the dwarf-star/wormwood idea.

Its the best theory out there in my opinion. A lot of 2012 theories may have been planted to make the whole thing appear ridiculous, but this one makes a lot of sense.

Read this: Science of Wormwood. Question it, see what you think. Is it possible? Decide what you think.

Its path and gravity rings: Wormwood path



[edit on 17-10-2009 by Copernicus]

I see common sense in this thread is rare. I should've expected it I guess, this is a conspiracy site after all, delusion is the norm here.

Originally posted by StevesResearch
I see common sense in this thread is rare. I should've expected it I guess, this is a conspiracy site after all, delusion is the norm here.

All that we're saying is just referencing your own signature, the universe is far more complicated than we think it is.

Originally posted by StevesResearch
I see common sense in this thread is rare. I should've expected it I guess, this is a conspiracy site after all, delusion is the norm here.

Nice trolling / bating. Are we supposed to attack you now?

You offer no counterarguments, just your opinion that there is no common sense here. Well... thanks for your opinion I guess.


[edit on 17-10-2009 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Copernicus

Originally posted by StevesResearch
I see common sense in this thread is rare. I should've expected it I guess, this is a conspiracy site after all, delusion is the norm here.

Nice trolling / bating. Are we supposed to attack you now?

You offer no counterarguments, just your opinion that there is no common sense here. Well... thanks for your opinion I guess.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Copernicus]

I'm not bating anyone, and it’s not my intention to come across as trolling (I hate that word) I'm just tired of the seemingly never-ending supply of bs posts where people act as if they "know" something significant is going to happen in 2012 or beyond. Their confidence lies in the fact that some ancient culture/civilisation believed/prophesised something would happen, or the Mayan calendar ends on a specific date. I've delved into both sides of the argument to get a clearer understanding and searched for evidence and there is nothing conclusive, just hearsay and ancient beliefs etc. Yet people get on here and act as if they have solid proof to back them up.

There are a lot of mysterious and fascinating things out there that are actually worth looking into, however, predictions/prophecies are often vague and open to interpretation. The people who claim to “know” that the world is headed for some change/upheaval are really only following a “belief“ that something will happen.
Why are we to think that this prediction/prophecy is any more accurate/possible than the dozens of others that have come and gone already? There is nothing tangible to suggest this will be any different, and I’m aware of possible threats from space and natural disasters but this is something the Earth faces everyday. For example, we could be hit by an asteroid at any moment. Apparently for every asteroid detected in close proximity to Earth there are at least 10 others that go undetected.

I feel a lot of people are getting carried away.

PS I apologise if my previous post came across as offensive, and in all honesty it’s not one of my better ones. It was reactive rather than constructive, it's just that I’m very passionate about this. I want people to maintain common sense here.

reply to post by StevesResearch


I understand your view, but the mainstream media is not going to tell people about this event.

Just keep an eye on the weather and the earth quakes for the next 2 years. At some point you will have a hard point saying its just a statistical anomaly I think.

The signs of this brown dwarf coming will mostly be natural disasters. Its always possible to claim that those are no evidence of anything, but when there is ancient texts speaking about exactly this, it seems like a good idea to start listening when the signs show up, no?

But sure, of course we cant be certain. Perhaps nothing happens in the next 2 years and everything is just a smooth trip. But I dont think so. I will be here in 2012 to see what I posted back then (now) and how accurate it was.


[edit on 17-10-2009 by Copernicus]

reply to post by Copernicus


Well if this brown dwarf does wreak havoc as predicted and we do experience a dramatic/unprecedented amount of calamities around that time then, yeah, I would certainly sit up and take notice.
At this stage though, I don't see a pattern.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Originally posted by StevesResearch
We should be worrying about what's happening now and focus on living our lives today instead of being fixated with fictional future events.

Yeah.

The gullible will cause more global damage than a calendar date will.



[edit on 17-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by StevesResearch
We should be worrying about what's happening now and focus on living our lives today instead of being fixated with fictional future events.

Yeah.

The gullible will cause more global damage than a calendar date will.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

I wholeheartedly agree with both of you.

Look at previous end of the world cults and what happens to their members when their end date passes.

At best it is ridicule and embarrassment from the society around them.

Many will fall even further under the spell of their beloved prophecy as their fragile minds cannot process the realisation that everything they believe is false and spiral into a paranoid and delusional abyss from which they cannot return.

At worst it is mass suicide.

Ok ... so maybe this is a bit dramatic in the context of the 2012 prophecies which seems to me to be largely an pop culture/fantasy based mass delusion driven on by the financial gain of some and not so much an intimate cult ... however, some people take it very seriously and some desperately want these prophecies to be fulfilled.

So, lets hope that the 2012 hysteria doesn't breed any Michael Travesser type wacko's

www.abc.net.au...

Edit - to add info on Michael Travesser

[edit on 17/10/09 by Horza]

There are many misconceptions about things. This is Human nature. For instance the Book of Revelation describes 'the end times' which are events that will come to pass. It is also clearly stated that there will be a utopian-like world after these events that will last for 1000 years. Many people have concentrated on the 'tribulation' and ignored the remainder of the story.

Such is the case with the Mayan calendar. This calendar describes the 'end of an era' upon which a new 'era of enlightenment' will begin. And once again people have concentrated on the negative aspects of the prophecy and even misinterpreted it to predict the 'end of the world'.

However, to alot of us the end of the world as we know it IS the end of the world because we are so wrapped up in our picket fences and our own private lives we know nothing else. You are the Illuminati's dream

2012 is a mark for the end of this cycle or "age".

The earth in space/time continuum is in the 4th density and by 2012 the earth time/space will rise into 4th density.

2010-2011 will be of great flooding (mostly due to the sun) and other climatic occurences which will insure a catalyst in awakening people.

It's been this way for an eternity on many planets rising in densities of conciousness and awareness with cycles and stages that are intelligently planned by the governing being.

There is no NWO....or authentic conspiricies that correlate with truthful matters and the meaning at hand.

There is One order, unified throughout the vast indefinite cosmos that we are ALL of.

[edit on 18-10-2009 by Psychonaughty]