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The Two Jehovahs of Psalm 110

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posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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There is but one God for all of us, your Jesus included. God is Love, and there is just One Love. Thought Bob Marley had been quite clear on this....




posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by Locoman8



I worhship God and Jesus.... two dieties mentioned in the bible


1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


God and Jesus always steal the spotlight from the Holy Ghost.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
There is but one God for all of us, your Jesus included. God is Love, and there is just One Love. Thought Bob Marley had been quite clear on this....


Jah in the highest.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


This is quite a horriffic translation. The text clearly says that that:

For there are three things that bear witness: The Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood, and these three agree.

Check it up!


[edit on 31/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by oliveoil

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
There is but one God for all of us, your Jesus included. God is Love, and there is just One Love. Thought Bob Marley had been quite clear on this....


Jah in the highest.


I am a refugee from Babylon....

The Lion of Judah will stand uppon Zion roaring for the cubs to come home....



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:33 AM
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the 2 jehovas are 1 but they are seperate and equal. one meant to be the celestial and one the terrestrial. have fun and don't get caught. or faught. fried and died. whoops did i lie?



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by oliveoil
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


This is quite a horriffic translation. The text clearly says that that:

For there are three things that bear witness: The Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood, and these three agree.

Check it up!


[edit on 31/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]



This is quite a horriffic translation. The text clearly says that that:

For there are three things that bear witness: The Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood, and these three agree.


correction 1john 5:7-8
should look like this

5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

I tend to believe that the Comma Johanneum was their all along



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
correction 1john 5:7-8
should look like this

5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

I tend to believe that the Comma Johanneum was their all along


You are still using a twisted translation. The text says nothing about heaven, the Word or the Father, not even the Holy spirit, simpoly Spirit, water and blood.

The Spirit was a witness since Jesju got his calling spiritually. So Spirit means Call. Jesju was called in spirit: "This My Son I have Born You Today"

Water bears witness since Jesju made himself smaller and layed his life in the hands of John the Baptist in Baptism. So Water is Submission to Knowledge. "For your sake, the Earth will be cursed and you will suffer for it's sake"

The Blood bears witness since Jesju suffered and gave his blood for an atonement. So Blood is (Self-) Sacrifice. "It is accomplished!"

Read it again. You should look at who made your translation. If you like I can post the Greek and translate it word by word for you.

[edit on 31/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

[edit on 31/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
Perhaps maybe the Devil does not know that God can't be tempted

Remember that God is a sovereign god. (all knowing)

Is the Devil a sovereign devil ?


so the devil isnt aware of god's holiness?

the devil actually thought that by offering god human governments, he could get god to worship him?

and that seriously makes sense to you?



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
As far as what bible you are using, It seems that you tend to switch back and forth form the NWT when you find it convenient.


actually, i dont use the NWT at all on this forum unless we are specifically comparing translations.

i do sometimes use american standard.

i find your comments about this ironic. you have such disdain for the NWT, yet you cant even recognize it.

its like your positively sure that it is wrong but only because someone else told you it was



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


And concidering the false quote he just posted, he should be the one checking his sources it seems. Translation leaves no room for interpretation, only what's correct is correct.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic



Im not saying that the wording and Your translation of John 5:7-8 is wrong. I am totally aware of it.And believe it. However, I also believe that in some some early printed Greek texts (notably those of Erasmus) and later versions of the Latin Vulgate, and in the King James Version (which I use) All include the Comma.( 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.)

I don't really know the history and how it came to be,( most likely it was a marginal note that was intended not to be excluded in translation but somehow was then 'added' back in).

I believe it .


Read it again. You should look at who made your translation. If you like I can post the Greek and translate it word by word for you.



I tend to be ignorant when it comes to Greek,But I would love to learn from someone who knows.That would be very cool. Thanks



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566




so the devil isnt aware of god's holiness?

The Devil Temps Man. Jesus was a man(God in the flesh). So therefore the Devil could have tempted him.



the devil actually thought that by offering god human governments, he could get god to worship him?


Yes. The Devil will try anything


and that seriously makes sense to you?


Yes it does.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by oliveoil
 


That's because the Holy Spirit isn't a separate God. It is the power of God. It is a force, not a personality. Many here have mentioned the fact that the "Father, Word, and Spirit" part of that verse was added centuries after the original manuscripts.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Locoman8
God in use of "Elohim" refers to the family of God which currently consists of Jesus and the Father.


you keep saying this like its established fact. do you have anything to prove this?




I was not ignoring the question. I just needed time to gather my research. It's hectic with work and two kids. Here it goes. I hope this satisfies you enough to at least understand why I believe this way.


Except for Christ, no human being has ever directly heard the actual voice of the Father or seen His form and shape (John 1:18; 5:37; 6:46; 1 John 4:12). So the YHWH, the I AM, the Word, who later became Jesus Christ, was the One who dealt directly with human beings in Old Testament times. Christ later died for our sins and became the ultimate mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5), a role He had already partially fulfilled as the preexistent Word before His human birth.

So the Word was indeed the God of the Old Testament—and yet the Father fulfilled this role in a very real sense as well. For Christ dealt with mankind on the Father's behalf as His Spokesman (compare John 8:28; 12:49-50). Moreover, in many passages in the Old Testament it can be difficult to separate these two great personages, whereas the New Testament is usually clear in this respect.

Of course, since Jesus came to reveal the Father (Matthew 11:27), the logical conclusion is that the Father was not generally known by those in Old Testament times except for a few of the Hebrew patriarchs and prophets. King David, for example, is one who understood (Acts 2:30).

Partially quoted earlier, Hebrews 1:1-2 states: "God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His [or 'a'] Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds."

In this opening passage of the book of Hebrews the clear implication is that the Father is the moving force behind the whole Old Testament. In context, verse 2 interprets verse 1. Though God the Father is the prime mover behind the Hebrew Bible, it is through Jesus Christ that He created the entire universe.

Also, the vital principle of the Bible interpreting the Bible helps us to understand the intent of Hebrews 1:1 in the light of other scriptures. Since God made the worlds through Christ and created all things by Him (Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16; John 1:3), He dealt with man through the agency of the preexistent Word, Christ.

We come back to the biblical reality that God has chosen to express His personal nature in terms of a family relationship. Elohim is the Hebrew word for God in every passage of Genesis 1 as well as in more than 2,700 places throughout the Old Testament.

Elohim is a noun that is plural in form but normally singular in usage—that is, paired with singular verbs—when designating the true God. For a comparable modern expression, consider the term United States. This proper noun is plural in form but singular in usage. It is used with singular verbs. For example, Americans say, "The United States is going to take action," not "The United States are going to take action." The plural form does signify multiple states—but, taken collectively, they are viewed as one nation.

It is the same with Elohim. The word Eloah, meaning "Mighty One," is the singular form. Elohim, meaning "Mighty Ones," is plural. And, indeed, there were two Mighty Ones, the Father and the Word. But, collectively, as Elohim, the two are seen as one God. Elohim said, "Let Us make man in our image, according to Our likeness" (verse 26).

We should note that, since Elohim is the name of the God family, each family member can be called by this name. (Some Bible writers also use the word elohim as a plural noun with plural usage to describe false gods. So one crucial factor in comprehending the meaning of this Hebrew word is determining what is intended by the context.)

When Adam and Eve made the momentous decision to disobey their Creator by eating of the forbidden fruit, the divine reaction was, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil" (Genesis 3:22). And God cut them off from the tree of life (verses 22-24).

The Hebrew word here translated "know" often means to learn or become aware of something through one's personal experience. For Adam and Eve it was not enough to simply accept God's command to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They instead chose to step into God's place and determine for themselves what was good and what was evil. The psalmist notes that the ungodly question God's knowledge: "And they say, 'How does God know? And is there knowledge in the Most High?'" (Psalm 73:11).

The phrase "one of Us," we should note, provides clear evidence that more than one constituted the "Us." Moreover, to "become like one of Us" was actually our Creator's original intention for all humanity, but it has to be done God's way and in His own time frame. That way is to submit ourselves to every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4).

Only our Creator has the right and wisdom to determine what is good and evil for us. He knows what's best for us and never wanted us to learn what is evil through experimentation. He tells us: "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; the statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes" (Psalm 19:7-8). He wants us to trust Him and His judgment.

Satan deceived Eve into attempting to take a shortcut to divine knowledge, and Adam followed her erroneous course of action. Some 4,000 years later the devil offered Jesus a similar shortcut, but He firmly rejected the temptation (Matthew 4:8-10). There are no shortcuts to something as precious as becoming part of God's eternal ruling Kingdom. Instead, "we must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).

Much later in the history of humankind, that same expression, "Let Us . . . ," is used to indicate the Father's direct involvement in the divine decision at the Tower of Babel. "Come, let Us [Elohim] go down and there confuse their language that they may not understand one another's speech" (Genesis 11:7). This was a joint decision.

Notice the context. What led up to this momentous decision to take such drastic action? "And the LORD [YHWH, the 'I AM'] said, 'Look, they are one people [wrongly united for a false purpose], and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them'" (verse 6, NRSV).

Our remarkable powers of planning and imagination are part of what it means to be made in the image of God. However, the sad state of our world is sufficient testimony to widespread misuse of our God-given abilities. As Christians we are required to develop an active imagination that is moral—allowing our incredible gift to be governed by the laws of our Creator.

Here in Genesis 11 the "LORD" (YHWH) surveyed a crisis situation at Babel and considered the tremendous, almost unlimited potential of mankind. After all, He made human beings in His own image. But it is Elohim [the Father and the Word together] who decided to intervene so decisively by scattering mankind through the sudden supernatural creation of many languages.

Otherwise the incredible scientific and technological advances of our age might have happened long ago, well before God's time and purpose. It is only in the last century that the great language barrier has largely been overcome. Now, through vastly increased knowledge of DNA and the human genome, scientists appear to be on the brink of unlocking the secrets of life itself.

Here YHWH (the Word, who later became Christ) analyzes the situation, but Elohim actually intervenes. That same divine interaction occurred earlier, just before the great Flood. YHWH (the LORD) saw "the wickedness of man" and that it "was great in the earth" and decided to destroy mankind, which He had created, but He also took careful note of righteous Noah (Genesis 6:5-9). Then much of this general narrative is repeated in verses 11-13, but this time it is Elohim who confirms the decision that YHWH had originally made with a sure eye on Noah, the patriarch whose righteousness enabled mankind to survive.

The two divine Beings were and are one in purpose and make decisions to solve problems in perfect divine unity. Yet it is the LORD (YHWH, the "I AM") who sometimes, but not always, initiates the proceedings by a divine declaration. In English translations one misses the depths of this marvelous interchange.

So in this sense the Father was also very much the God of the Old Testament. Yet He continually worked with man through the direct actions of the preexistent Word.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566


The versions of the bible you use were derived by Westcott and Hort.

WESTCOTT AND HORT were SECRET PRACTITIONERS OF THE OCCULT !!

They were the founders of the Ghost Club.- Read what Duet:18-11 has to say about that.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8





That's because the Holy Spirit isn't a separate God


Read Eph 4:30, Acts 13:2, and Acts 5:34


It is the power of God. It is a force, not a personality.


Can a force be lied to?
Can a force speak ?
Can a force be grieved?


Many here have mentioned the fact that the "Father, Word, and Spirit" part of that verse was added centuries after the original manuscripts.


This is only one verse that implies Trinity.( their are many more) and It belongs in the Bible period. It was not just " added ". Some believe it was a marginal note in old Latin Manuscripts that was not put in the Latin Vulgate.
until the 8 centry

Isnt it weird that everyone uses Wikipedia for their information.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil

the devil actually thought that by offering god human governments, he could get god to worship him?


Yes. The Devil will try anything


that makes no sense. its like eating penny\ies for the heck of it even though you know it will do you no good.

or jumping off the roof of a house to see if you can fly even though you know full well you wont.

i thought the bible portrayed satan as cunning and sly. you describing him as an idiot.

satan would not try to tempt something he knows he cant tempt.

jesus made absolutely no allusion to him being god. he simply quoted the scriptures.



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
However, I also believe that in some some early printed Greek texts (notably those of Erasmus) and later versions of the Latin Vulgate, and in the King James Version (which I use) All include the Comma.


so a scripture that doesnt appear in any greek manuscripts until the 1500's is "authentic" to you?

bible.org...



posted on Oct, 31 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by miriam0566


The versions of the bible you use were derived by Westcott and Hort.

WESTCOTT AND HORT were SECRET PRACTITIONERS OF THE OCCULT !!

They were the founders of the Ghost Club.- Read what Duet:18-11 has to say about that.


lol. i dont really care.

anytime a scripture is in doubt i research the original greek anyway.



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