Originally posted by miriam0566
Originally posted by Locoman8
God in use of "Elohim" refers to the family of God which currently consists of Jesus and the Father.
you keep saying this like its established fact. do you have anything to prove this?
I was not ignoring the question. I just needed time to gather my research. It's hectic with work and two kids. Here it goes. I hope this
satisfies you enough to at least understand why I believe this way.
Except for Christ, no human being has ever directly heard the actual voice of the Father or seen His form and shape (John 1:18; 5:37; 6:46; 1 John
4:12). So the YHWH, the I AM, the Word, who later became Jesus Christ, was the One who dealt directly with human beings in Old Testament times. Christ
later died for our sins and became the ultimate mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5), a role He had already partially fulfilled as the
preexistent Word before His human birth.
So the Word was indeed the God of the Old Testament—and yet the Father fulfilled this role in a very real sense as well. For Christ dealt with
mankind on the Father's behalf as His Spokesman (compare John 8:28; 12:49-50). Moreover, in many passages in the Old Testament it can be difficult to
separate these two great personages, whereas the New Testament is usually clear in this respect.
Of course, since Jesus came to reveal the Father (Matthew 11:27), the logical conclusion is that the Father was not generally known by those in Old
Testament times except for a few of the Hebrew patriarchs and prophets. King David, for example, is one who understood (Acts 2:30).
Partially quoted earlier, Hebrews 1:1-2 states: "God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
has in these last days spoken to us by His [or 'a'] Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds."
In this opening passage of the book of Hebrews the clear implication is that the Father is the moving force behind the whole Old Testament. In
context, verse 2 interprets verse 1. Though God the Father is the prime mover behind the Hebrew Bible, it is through Jesus Christ that He created the
Also, the vital principle of the Bible interpreting the Bible helps us to understand the intent of Hebrews 1:1 in the light of other scriptures. Since
God made the worlds through Christ and created all things by Him (Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16; John 1:3), He dealt with man through the agency of
the preexistent Word, Christ.
We come back to the biblical reality that God has chosen to express His personal nature in terms of a family relationship. Elohim is the Hebrew word
for God in every passage of Genesis 1 as well as in more than 2,700 places throughout the Old Testament.
Elohim is a noun that is plural in form but normally singular in usage—that is, paired with singular verbs—when designating the true God. For a
comparable modern expression, consider the term United States. This proper noun is plural in form but singular in usage. It is used with singular
verbs. For example, Americans say, "The United States is going to take action," not "The United States are going to take action." The plural form
does signify multiple states—but, taken collectively, they are viewed as one nation.
It is the same with Elohim. The word Eloah, meaning "Mighty One," is the singular form. Elohim, meaning "Mighty Ones," is plural. And, indeed,
there were two Mighty Ones, the Father and the Word. But, collectively, as Elohim, the two are seen as one God. Elohim said, "Let Us make man in our
image, according to Our likeness" (verse 26).
We should note that, since Elohim is the name of the God family, each family member can be called by this name. (Some Bible writers also use the word
elohim as a plural noun with plural usage to describe false gods. So one crucial factor in comprehending the meaning of this Hebrew word is
determining what is intended by the context.)
When Adam and Eve made the momentous decision to disobey their Creator by eating of the forbidden fruit, the divine reaction was, "Behold, the man
has become like one of Us, to know good and evil" (Genesis 3:22). And God cut them off from the tree of life (verses 22-24).
The Hebrew word here translated "know" often means to learn or become aware of something through one's personal experience. For Adam and Eve it was
not enough to simply accept God's command to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They instead chose to step into God's place and
determine for themselves what was good and what was evil. The psalmist notes that the ungodly question God's knowledge: "And they say, 'How does
God know? And is there knowledge in the Most High?'" (Psalm 73:11).
The phrase "one of Us," we should note, provides clear evidence that more than one constituted the "Us." Moreover, to "become like one of Us"
was actually our Creator's original intention for all humanity, but it has to be done God's way and in His own time frame. That way is to submit
ourselves to every word that proceeds from the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4).
Only our Creator has the right and wisdom to determine what is good and evil for us. He knows what's best for us and never wanted us to learn what is
evil through experimentation. He tells us: "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the
simple; the statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes" (Psalm 19:7-8). He wants
us to trust Him and His judgment.
Satan deceived Eve into attempting to take a shortcut to divine knowledge, and Adam followed her erroneous course of action. Some 4,000 years later
the devil offered Jesus a similar shortcut, but He firmly rejected the temptation (Matthew 4:8-10). There are no shortcuts to something as precious as
becoming part of God's eternal ruling Kingdom. Instead, "we must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
Much later in the history of humankind, that same expression, "Let Us . . . ," is used to indicate the Father's direct involvement in the divine
decision at the Tower of Babel. "Come, let Us [Elohim] go down and there confuse their language that they may not understand one another's speech"
(Genesis 11:7). This was a joint decision.
Notice the context. What led up to this momentous decision to take such drastic action? "And the LORD [YHWH, the 'I AM'] said, 'Look, they are one
people [wrongly united for a false purpose], and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they
propose to do will now be impossible for them'" (verse 6, NRSV).
Our remarkable powers of planning and imagination are part of what it means to be made in the image of God. However, the sad state of our world is
sufficient testimony to widespread misuse of our God-given abilities. As Christians we are required to develop an active imagination that is
moral—allowing our incredible gift to be governed by the laws of our Creator.
Here in Genesis 11 the "LORD" (YHWH) surveyed a crisis situation at Babel and considered the tremendous, almost unlimited potential of mankind.
After all, He made human beings in His own image. But it is Elohim [the Father and the Word together] who decided to intervene so decisively by
scattering mankind through the sudden supernatural creation of many languages.
Otherwise the incredible scientific and technological advances of our age might have happened long ago, well before God's time and purpose. It is
only in the last century that the great language barrier has largely been overcome. Now, through vastly increased knowledge of DNA and the human
genome, scientists appear to be on the brink of unlocking the secrets of life itself.
Here YHWH (the Word, who later became Christ) analyzes the situation, but Elohim actually intervenes. That same divine interaction occurred earlier,
just before the great Flood. YHWH (the LORD) saw "the wickedness of man" and that it "was great in the earth" and decided to destroy mankind,
which He had created, but He also took careful note of righteous Noah (Genesis 6:5-9). Then much of this general narrative is repeated in verses
11-13, but this time it is Elohim who confirms the decision that YHWH had originally made with a sure eye on Noah, the patriarch whose righteousness
enabled mankind to survive.
The two divine Beings were and are one in purpose and make decisions to solve problems in perfect divine unity. Yet it is the LORD (YHWH, the "I
AM") who sometimes, but not always, initiates the proceedings by a divine declaration. In English translations one misses the depths of this
So in this sense the Father was also very much the God of the Old Testament. Yet He continually worked with man through the direct actions of the