The Two Jehovahs of Psalm 110, page 13

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reply posted on 4-11-2009 @ 08:01 AM by oliveoil

I was so caught up on trying to prove there can not be two Jahovahs, I totally missed out on what you were trying to say. Sorry.

Many believe that David was speaking prophetically when he composed this psalm speaking of a future messiah. So when the NT came around people at that time believed it to be Jesus.Jesus its the root of David. It fits well. However, it was most likely that David was speaking about his son Solomon. He called him lord, placing him above his own status.

reply posted on 4-11-2009 @ 02:45 PM by Neo Christian Mystic

reply to post by oliveoil

All of the psalms "of David" and Asaf and others were made to David's honor. He probably never wrote a letter, much less a psalm. He was the ideal Messiah and ever since Jews in all parts of the world, have dreamt of the Jewish As-Ar, the Jeezes.

reply posted on 4-11-2009 @ 05:35 PM by oliveoil

I always thought that the Hebrew phrase "leDavid" meant by.

I guess it could mean to or from or about. I need to check my Readers Digest Guide to the Bible again

reply posted on 4-11-2009 @ 05:49 PM by Sigismundus

Hi Oliveil

The prepositioin Le in paleoHeb means 'to' as in 'belonging to', showing possession and could also be extended to authorship as in 'attributed to'.

So...leDawwid could mean he composed it, or it was attributed to him later in order to give it publicity or 'success' in the liturgy by usage.

Kings and clan chiefs and other famous people are sometimes notorious for claiming things they did not themselves do (think of the re-inscriptions of older statues and buildings in ancient Egypt that the Pharaoh's claimed they built or designed etc. but which date from earlier periods.

On the other hand many things-deeds-words &tc. are sometimes attached to famous dead persons posthumously so as to link some object &tc. with the person--in the case of 18th century composers, many sinfonia compositions were printed in Paris with the name Josef Haydn on the coversheet so 'it would sell' and Haydn had to resport to sometimes legal means to get this kind of thing to stop (more often than not, these spurious compositions were not worthy of the name of Haydn, which was his main concern, i.e. his reputation was at stake)...

We do not know how many Psalms that say the words (le-Dawwid) on them were actually written by either David himself [or his priest musician poets], and how many were either adaptations of canaanite hymns (e.g. Psalm 29) or date from a much later time than David's &tc.

Either way, the preposition le- typically denotes possession in these cases, whether we believe the preposition or not is another matter !

reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 02:18 PM by oliveoil

reply to post by Sigismundus

Being that he was King he probably did have someone write it for him as Neo suggests.
A Dividic psalmist of sorts. Makes sense.

reply posted on 6-11-2009 @ 10:43 PM by Locoman8

reply to post by oliveoil

It is quite common. Most of the NT written by Paul was actually written by Paul's scribes from what I hear. Luke, who wrote the Gospel of Luke and Acts was a historian and scribe himself so those are self-written. The Song of Solomon is attributed to Solomon but there is the possibility he used scribes. So, David's psalms may have been written by scribes who recorded the words of David very much the way the Gospel writers wrote what they heard Jesus speak.

reply posted on 7-11-2009 @ 07:02 AM by Neo Christian Mystic

Tradition wants it that the Koran was written by Mohammed (peace be with him), and that Arabic language was created by him, but the Koran itself says that Mohammed (peace be with him) didn't know how to read and write, and that it was infact Archangel Gabriel who handed him the language and dictated the Koran.

[edit on 7/11/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 12:57 AM by Locoman8

If anyone has noticed, oliveoil has started a thread called "The Three Jehovahs of the Bible" which is a way for him to explain the "trinity" though in such a fallical way. To explain two Jehovahs, which has room for speculation, is to explain two separate dieties... the Father (or Great Jehovah) and the Son (or Lesser Jehovah; Jesus Christ). To explain the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as each being "Jehovah" and then calling it "Three Jehovahs" completely slams the "monotheism" behind the "trinity" which is three aspects or three "ways of communication" of one God. Therefore, the thread is in error by default. My thread here is more of an open-ended discussion of possibilities not limited by man's arrogant blind judgement.

I just had to get that off my chest. Thank you for contributing to a unique discussion that I didn't even know would be so welcome on this site. God bless you all and peace be with you.

reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 05:35 AM by Neo Christian Mystic

The point is, Psalm 110 only speaks of one JHVH hipocritically translated Lord, while the other lord is not the JHVH but a word which is correctly translated Lord. The duality in the concept of God has to do with the dual personality of Love. Love needs to love and be loved, and that takes two poles. In my opinion, God is the personified love between our heavenly parents, Forces (the Male principle the JHVH Elohim) and Wisdom (the Female principle the Sophia Baphomet). Wisdom is the construct of reality, it governs the forces at work, as long as wisdom is wisdom and force is force. Wisdom can dismantle reality and control the forces, while the forces in turn may destroy everything and deny wisdom to reemerge. Reality is a complex, and it's held in place by these two things. Forces and Wisdom.

[edit on 14/11/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 08:53 AM by oliveoil

reply to post by Locoman8

If anyone has noticed, oliveoil has started a thread called "The Three Jehovahs of the Bible" which is a way for him to explain the "trinity" though in such a fallical way.

Oh brother
If your gonna give my thread a shout out, at least post a link.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The reason why I posted the Three Jehovahs thread was not to explain the trinity,but to point out three simple facts. The the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all deities.

Isaiah 44:6, Deuteronomy 6:4, John 20:28, Rev 22:12-13,and Acts 5:3-4 confirm this.

This is not controversy, or conspiracy, Just plain simple truth. The people who read my thread either agreed with the obvious, or like you, decided that their version is better.

And yes, your version is better because it provides everything folks here at ATS love, Speculation, Controversy and conspiracy.

But its not truth.

If you would you like an elementary explanation of the trinity and monotheism I would be more than happy to show you.

[edit on 14-11-2009 by oliveoil]

reply posted on 14-11-2009 @ 10:19 PM by Locoman8

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by Locoman8

If anyone has noticed, oliveoil has started a thread called "The Three Jehovahs of the Bible" which is a way for him to explain the "trinity" though in such a fallical way.

The reason why I posted the Three Jehovahs thread was not to explain the trinity,but to point out three simple facts. The the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all deities.

So if they are all "separate" deities as you say they are, then Monotheism goes out the window. This is why the term "three Jehovahs" does not work with your overall beliefs. I came out and said it.... I don't believe in the trinity and I think "monotheism" is a manmade word to bind abrahamic religions to think the way the "powers that be" want you to think. Thus, the catholics came up with the "trinity" doctrine to explain how Jesus (known to be a God in the bible), the Father (revealed by Jesus in the NT) and the Holy Spirit (power of God) are all the same God. This is false simply because Jesus prayed to the Father... something He wouldn't have to do if indeed He was also the Father. Jesus recieved the Holy Spirit... proof that the Holy Spirit is a power or force and not ALSO Jesus. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit were the same deity then Jesus wouldn't have had to "recieve it." If the Father and Jesus were the same and were also the Holy Spirit, the Father wouldn't have had to send the Holy Spirit down to Jesus after His baptism by John. My post simply explains two SEPARATE deities not bound by a manmade word like "monotheism" or by a false doctrine such as the "trinity". Two Jehovahs shows that it's two separate bodies or beings and not two aspects of One Being. Three Jehovahs in your thread does not give your "trinity" doctrine justice as it explains three separate bodies or beings, not three aspects of one being. That is why my thread is better.... not to be egotistic, but moreso to be logical in my thinking verses your limited thought process on the subject. Good day to you sir and I wish you peace.

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 04:23 AM by Neo Christian Mystic

You can count as many deities you like, and call them Jahveh or Allah or Zeus, there is still only One Love. God is Love. God created this universe, since he loved the idea and loves to create, and he might have felt a bit lonely.

[edit on 15/11/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

God loves just decisions, so he Created Law. Law in Norse is Lag (mod. Norwegian Lov), and Create in Norse is Laga (No. Lage). To Promise in Norwegian is No. Love. As you see the concept of God is coded into our Logos, Language. The Promised (No. Lovede) one is our Love, he is the Lion (No. Løve) of Judah!

[edit on 15/11/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 10:06 AM by oliveoil

reply to post by Locoman8

This post will most likely fall on deaf ears, but anyway.

So if they are all "separate" deities as you say they are, then Monotheism goes out the window.

No this just proves that theres a contradiction, Which raises the question, How can there be three claiming to be the one and only true God?

This was one of the first questions ask by the early church fathers like Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus and Theophilus of Antioch.
Oh, by the way thats where Yeshua's disciples were first called Christians.(Acts 11:26).

From studying the scriptures they determined that God is one being in three personal dimensions
And it only makes sense. Here are a few examples in which they wrote on.

In order to understand What the Bible says about God we must first understand what the Bible says about man.

They came to the conclusion that man is a triune being that consists of a spirit, soul, and body.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 confirms: " And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ".

And since man is made in Gods Image,God must also be a Triune being.
Scripture also confirms.

In Genesis 1:26 God said, Let us make man in "our" image, after "our" likeness:
Notice the word "our" ? more than one.

Again Genesis 11:7 , let "us" go down, Notice the word "us"? more than one.

So If mans triune being consists of his soul, his body, and his spirit, Than Gods triune being also consists of soul, body and Spirit

Matthew chapter three speaks of the Baptism of Jesus where God the Father is speaking from Heaven, The Son is being baptized, and the Holy Ghost is descending like a dove.

When Jesus gave the Great Commission in Matthew 28:18-20, He said in verse 19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

It only made sense for the church fathers to make the distinction between the father being the soul, the son being the body, and the Holy Ghost being the spirit. This is also confirmed separately many more times in the bible.

If you actually think about it,Gods creation alone declares Trinity.
Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork

The universe consists of three parts: Time, Space, and Matter.
Time consists of three parts: Past, Present, and Future.
Space consists of three parts: Length, Width, and Height.
Matter consists of three parts: Energy, Motion, and Phenomena.
There are three heavens in 2 Cor. 12:2, and on earth there are three forms of life: Man, Plant, and Animal. These forms of life are found in three places: Land, Sea, and Air.
I could go on and on all day, point is is that God just loves the number three.

not to be egotistic, but moreso to be logical in my thinking verses your limited thought process on the subject

Since my "limited thought process" has proved to you that the Holy Spirit is a deity, and he among the Father and the Son are one triune being = God. Where does he fit into your "logical" explanation of the Two Jahovahs?

[edit on 15-11-2009 by oliveoil]

By the way how did you" logically" come to the conclusion that G-ds name is Jehovah.?

[edit on 15-11-2009 by oliveoil]

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 10:47 AM by jmdewey60

The activities of Jesus would seem to be in keeping with the role of YHWH from the Psalms 110 story. How he remained within the old boundaries of the kingdom Of Solomon and David. In the Psalms 110 story, YHWH was given the responsibility of the old kingdom of Israel. After the resurrection, Jesus took on a similar role as El, where he then had the authority to assign the disciples responsibilities over regions, as Apostles.
Back in the times before Jesus was born, YHWH would say through the prophets, Do not follow or look to the gods of the lands that you find yourselves in because I am your only God, I and I alone. Well, for them, that was true. Now that we are at the end of the world, we will come before the seated One who judges everything, and the person formerly known as YHWH, and now ruler of the entire Earth, sits beside the Father, as a judge himself, and advocates for those who are his own, not just Israel of the old boundaries but the new Israel without boundaries.

[edit on 15-11-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 11:38 AM by Neo Christian Mystic

In Hinduism, the world's oldest living religion, introduced the Trinity which the whore Catholicism bought for a quickie together with the rosary and a few other things. In Hinduism the world is destroyed over and over so it can be created over and over to sustain life. Therefore they have a Creator (Brahma), a Sustainer (Vishnu) and a Destroyer (Shivah). In ancient Egypt we have Hu- who created Orion (Kesil) with his first breath and Osiris (Asar) with his last breath. In Enochian and Christian lore we have the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Adam (father), Kain (right hand) and Abel (ghost) is another. Why do you have to divide? Don't you know that divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book? We have ONE God, as damned as it may sound, turn my Father into two or more entities, and we will have to watch him being hewne ins twain.

[edit on 15/11/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 11:40 AM by oliveoil

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

You can count as many deities you like, and call them Jahveh or Allah or Zeus, there is still only One Love. God is Love.

Rastaman declared he to be Jah. Jah in the highest. Chant down Babylon.

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 11:48 AM by oliveoil

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
In Hinduism, the world's oldest living religion, introduced the Trinity which the whore Catholicism bought for a quickie. In Hinduism the world is destroyed over and over so it can be created over and over to sustain life. Therefore they have a Creator (Brahma), a Sustainer (Vishnu) and a Destroyer (Shivah). In ancient Egypt we have Hu- who created Orion (Kesil) with his first breath and Osiris (Asar) with his last breath. In Enochian and Christian lore we have the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Adam (father), Kain (right hand) and Abel (ghost) is another. Why do you have to divide? Don't you know that divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the book? We have ONE God, as damned as it may sound, turn my Father into two or more entities, and we will have to watch him being hewne ins twain.

We can't alone go by speculation. We can only learn which the bible has written.
In this case the Bible specifically stresses the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost ,And it describes them as being one.

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 11:51 AM by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by oliveoil
Rastaman declared he to be Jah. Jah in the highest. Chant down Babylon.

Then live by it. All the gods, they are all He. Not with agreement or power, but they are from him who is alive, children of He who is, whose face no more than the promised "I" has seen to live and tell. God is love incarnate. He is like a ghost that comes and goes, he is like a fearful light and a spoiled son. He's our only hope, yet our worst enemy. And he knows us better than you know your own pocket.

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 12:05 PM by oliveoil

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by oliveoil
Rastaman declared he to be Jah. Jah in the highest. Chant down Babylon.

Then live by it. All the gods, they are all He. Not with agreement or power, but they are from him who is alive, children of He who is, whose face no more than the promised "I" has seen to live and tell. God is love incarnate. He is like a ghost that comes and goes, he is like a fearful light and a spoiled son. He's our only hope, yet our worst enemy. And he knows us better than you know your own pocket.

I am in total agreement to what you are saying. There can't be two or three or twenty G-ds. There can only be ONE!! YHWH. Im trying to explain this to locoman. This cannot be done until he realizes that The three in the Bible that are seen as G-d are in fact G-d. Not 3 but 1.

reply posted on 15-11-2009 @ 12:06 PM by Neo Christian Mystic

reply to post by oliveoil

Deuteronomy 6:4f "Hear, Israel: Jahveh Elohim, the JHVH is One. Love Jahveh Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."

Leviticus 19:18 "Do not seek revenge or hate people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am Jahveh."

[edit on 15/11/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

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