Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by v01i0
"I AM" refers to Jehovah being "ever existent" meaning He has always been.
I Am and always have been existent..... I am who I am..... I am that I am.
I have to somewhat disagree with you here. I can't comment very much on the details of the bible and the different translations etc. But the
significance of "I AM" I do know about, and it has HUGE implications in understanding. You aren't wrong exactly, but there is so much more being
It is also the basis for understanding the "2 gods". Father and son, son consisting of flesh and spirit. Flesh = dead, father and son = life.
In my understanding, I am that I am was one of the first and most basic understanding I was given. I don't see how one can understand how the
father is within Jesus, or within others without proper understanding of the significance of "I am".
This is very difficult, if not impossible to explain to someone, but I will attempt it. It really needs to be experienced. It is the father
within you that gives you the sense of "I am".
I guess I need to set this up, please bear with me, I just can't express how hard these things are to express, this is heavy into the spirit side of
So, to get us started I guess we will start with the Logos/Word that makes creation. That Logo's/Word is not the bible - the bible doesn't make
The Logo's is Logic
. It is pure logic. It is the same thing as the programming that goes into these forums. These forums are based on
logic, they are created on nothing but logic and so forth.
In a program, you start with nothing - a void of sorts. And from that void with logic you can create
entire virtual worlds. When you look
at a video game, that is what it is - just logic.
That is not to say we are a computer program, or that the universe is a computer program. Just that the foundations of existence is based on logic,
or the logos/word as the bible put it.
With me so far? I can go into more detail on that part if you want.
Now, if you look in genesis of the creation story, it talks about the spirit of the father descends into creation. This is important in
understanding - what is flesh is flesh, and what is spirit is spirit.
See, if we take the above program we "created" with logic - it is not "alive". That program is dead. It does not come "alive" until the
creation is observed. If it is not observed, it does not become "real", or a "reality". And so we see this happen in Genesis, when the
spirit descends onto creation and brings it to "life".
So, if you created a program - it would not come to life until you or some consciousness viewed/observed/experienced it. And that is also true of
Still with me? Hope so, if not I will be happy to go over any points.
Now this also tells us what is life and what is dead. The life in creation is the consciousness that views/observes and experiences it. The spirit
that descends onto creation. God of the living = god of the spirit, not that of the flesh - which is dead without the father within(spirit).
So when god says - I am that I am, it is telling you that he is the spirit within. That he is that which is consciousness, that is by him that all
things are observed.
Now then, what is "you"? What is that makes you? When you look at people who are materialist, they may define themselves as material things.
They will define themselves by their accomplishments and material possessions. Ask them who or what they are, and it's their job, their home,
their car etc. But journey beyond even the materialistic in society. Is not your body a possession as well? "Your arm", your "mind" and
So you can not define yourself without defining a possession. All things you will use to define yourself - even a soul, is really just a possession.
And so when it comes down to what it is that possesses these things, what it is of "you" that possesses them - you come down to 1 unavoidable
answer: I am that I am. What it means "to be". Conscious, able to observe, experience and understand.
This Jesus knew, this Jesus understood, this Jesus expresses over and over. John 14:20 is a direct expression of this, and talks about the day when
one experiences and comes to understanding this.
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
So, the I am within you is a result of the father. If the father is not within one, then they have no soul. They are no different than robots, and
are bound and slave to the logic they are given to follow. Thus why when people "sell their soul" they become puppets, do not think and are slave
to those who tell them what to do.
It is when someone experiences this, then by default many other things Jesus has said and done becomes common sense. It is an experience, and many
other things become obvious as a result of it.
But when you realize what is truly you, then you will know and understand why death is not "real". Death of the flesh will happen, but not death of
the soul(only the father can kill a soul, which is not what most people would think). It just plain makes sense all of a sudden. When Jesus says
fear not those who can kill the flesh, but that which can kill the soul - it makes perfect sense.
It is because the father is within, and that we are observers and such, that you have Psalm 82. We are all "gods". Jesus only ever quotes Psalm
82 in terms of if he is god - for a reason. Common knowledge for those who understand, as he did. He presents it as to ask why they even thought
it was odd in the first place(John 10).
So the "I am that I am" is a founding part of understanding the holy. A founding part in understanding that which is spirit is spirit, and that
which is flesh is flesh. Most people treat the spirit in that verse as just another flesh, because they do not understand.
Now when it comes to multiple "gods" and such, it is because the father is within all. The father is all knowing and the sum result of all
consciousness that exists anywhere, in all time and so forth. Can't even really begin to express even what can be seen and understood, much less
all those things beyond etc. Obviously, neither I or you have memory of creating the universe, thus neither of us is the father.
So the father is much greater than any of us. We have a limited perspective, it is the limited perspective that gives us this experience, time and
so forth. But, in the end there is only 1 true god, 1 true father.
So it's father and son relationship there. Father gives to the son.
Jesus constantly says call no man your father, for the father is that which is in heaven. Matthew 7, how much will you father in heaven give those
who ask, and Psalm 82 etc.
But I think you really have to experience these things for yourself, and that comes from seeking who you are, and things like that. The bible
can't tell you who you are, even if it can say it.
[edit on 11/4/2009 by badmedia]