Spirituality is just a coping mechanism, page 9

Originally posted by IandEye

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by IandEye

---

Sitting in the sun, smiling, and enjoying life. Where's the suffering there?

You see, I'm not falling for your strawman. We don't have to pursue to experience.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

"strawman"?
haha
"suffering" means "ill-at-ease (dis-ease)" "unwhole" or "unhealhy"
if you didn't think everything was perfect, you wouldn't be here typing, smart guy
birth, death, old age- these are things you will "experience".


I will emphasize my point-
smiling, sitting in the sun, enjoying life- is a coping strategy to deal with the fact you are going to die and there is nothing you can do about it.

stop dealing with my posts and try to open your mind a little bit- not for me but for you



[edit on 20-4-2010 by IandEye]

Well, I wanted to correct you. Birth, yes, everyone alive now has experienced this. Hopefully many get to experience it by witnessing this miracle. Death is another that all alive experience. At least in the physical sense. But on 'old age' I have to disagree. This, unfortunately, is not what everyone gets to experience. It should be a time of relaxation and experience. A time of reflection.

Which in essence is another form of spirituality.

Originally posted by IandEye

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by IandEye

---

Sitting in the sun, smiling, and enjoying life. Where's the suffering there?

You see, I'm not falling for your strawman. We don't have to pursue to experience.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

"strawman"?
haha

Yes, strawman. Your first statement and second are incongruent. You asked me to prove a false premise.

"suffering" means "ill-at-ease (dis-ease)" "unwhole" or "unhealhy"
if you didn't think everything was perfect, you wouldn't be here typing, smart guy
birth, death,, old age- these are things you will "experience".

What? Did you read what you just said? If I did not think everything was perfect, I would not be here typing?? What? That doesn't make the least bit of sense.

Just because I experience some suffering, does not equate to everything I experience as being suffering. If everything we experienced was suffering, how would we ever define it? Compared to what? No, suffering is both universal and transient among all life.



[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by SirPsychoSexy

---

Well said. Star for you!

My mindset does not jive with the idea that this world is a seperation to spirit. It just seems utterly irrational. Well, actually, spirit must be irrational, literally, but I guess that's not what I mean. I mean it doesn't make sense to me.

You're correct in everything you say. I don't have a problem with people who believe in spirit, I have a problem with people who must pronounce to the world that they're spiritual. It's snoobish.

Peace.

refer to the link in my sig

Most spiritualists claim that the key to realization is to absolve the ego, when in fact most of them end up boosting their ego to massive proportions. They create some ultimate sense of self worth and "holier than thou" attitude while claiming they "command the light" and "spread love".

I do find the lifestyles of Buddhist hermits and Tibetan monks to be very interesting. I'm also reading a great book called "The Second Coming of Christ", written by Paramahansa Yogananda, which is basically a hindu/spiritual point of view on the bible.

reply to post by dariousg

---

Sure, I can be patient. Please take your time, though I want to comment on one thing you said now. Reply whenever you get the chance. Where is it that you've read that this is about Christianity or any other religion? I'm not Christian. I have changed my viewpoint, probably several times since the OP! , but for now I'm pretty much atheistic. In my understanding, all religions are coping mechanisms from the start, and end up turning into tools for control by a minority of the majority.

Look forward to hearing your reply. I'm a little nervous, in that I realize my beliefs and views have changed considerably over the year, sometimes on a weekly basis, though overall there has been progression. I hope you don't find me to be entirely insane!!

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by IandEye

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by IandEye

---

Sitting in the sun, smiling, and enjoying life. Where's the suffering there?

You see, I'm not falling for your strawman. We don't have to pursue to experience.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

"strawman"?
haha

Yes, strawman. Your first statement and second are incongruent. You asked me to prove a false premise.

"suffering" means "ill-at-ease (dis-ease)" "unwhole" or "unhealhy"
if you didn't think everything was perfect, you wouldn't be here typing, smart guy
birth, death,, old age- these are things you will "experience".

What? Did you read what you just said? If I did not think everything was perfect, I would not be here typing?? What? That doesn't make the least bit of sense.

Just because I experience some suffering, does not equate to everything I experience as being suffering. If everything we experienced was suffering, how would we ever define it? Compared to what? No, suffering is both universal and transient among all life.



[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

well sure- you said you dont have to pursue to experience, but"action" is pursuing......like pontificating on the internet......

Buddhism101
1. existence is suffering (has pain in it)
2. suffering is caused by ignorance of the true nature of self
3. there is a way to be free of suffering
4 the way is the Eighfold Path (right vision, intention, speech, action, livelihood, effort, mindfulness, concentration)

if you can call that a strawman argument you must be able to walk on water in your mind............
speaking of walking on water..do you think Jesus would have taken the 20 hours a week it takes to keep a pool clean? that's a real miracle......
anyhow- i have nothing against you but just the fact that in your moment of ecstasy i noticed that you were alone. whatever else you have to say, that is sad and i hope it changes for you.

Originally posted by IandEye

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by IandEye

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by IandEye

---

Sitting in the sun, smiling, and enjoying life. Where's the suffering there?

You see, I'm not falling for your strawman. We don't have to pursue to experience.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

"strawman"?
haha

Yes, strawman. Your first statement and second are incongruent. You asked me to prove a false premise.

"suffering" means "ill-at-ease (dis-ease)" "unwhole" or "unhealhy"
if you didn't think everything was perfect, you wouldn't be here typing, smart guy
birth, death,, old age- these are things you will "experience".

What? Did you read what you just said? If I did not think everything was perfect, I would not be here typing?? What? That doesn't make the least bit of sense.

Just because I experience some suffering, does not equate to everything I experience as being suffering. If everything we experienced was suffering, how would we ever define it? Compared to what? No, suffering is both universal and transient among all life.



[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

well sure- you said you dont have to pursue to experience, but"action" is pursuing......like pontificating on the internet......

I'm not arguing that. Don't you recall what you originally said? You didn't say action, you didn't say pursue, you said existence is suffering. Because of this first statement, your second requesting me to prove that any pursuance wasn't suffering was in fact a strawman. You can exist, and not pursue.

Buddhism101
1. existence is suffering (has pain in it)
2. suffering is caused by ignorance of the true nature of self
3. there is a way to be free of suffering
4 the way is the Eighfold Path (right vision, intention, speech, action, livelihood, effort, mindfulness, concentration)

Well it's a good thing I'm not a buddhist, because this seems quite absurd to me.

whatever else you have to say, that is sad and i hope it changes for you.

Yes. Poor me for responding to posts in my thread. Certainly I must change this.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by IandEye

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by IandEye

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by IandEye

---

Sitting in the sun, smiling, and enjoying life. Where's the suffering there?

You see, I'm not falling for your strawman. We don't have to pursue to experience.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

"strawman"?
haha

Yes, strawman. Your first statement and second are incongruent. You asked me to prove a false premise.

"suffering" means "ill-at-ease (dis-ease)" "unwhole" or "unhealhy"
if you didn't think everything was perfect, you wouldn't be here typing, smart guy
birth, death,, old age- these are things you will "experience".

What? Did you read what you just said? If I did not think everything was perfect, I would not be here typing?? What? That doesn't make the least bit of sense.

Just because I experience some suffering, does not equate to everything I experience as being suffering. If everything we experienced was suffering, how would we ever define it? Compared to what? No, suffering is both universal and transient among all life.



[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

well sure- you said you dont have to pursue to experience, but"action" is pursuing......like pontificating on the internet......

I'm not arguing that. Don't you recall what you originally said? You didn't say action, you didn't say pursue, you said existence is suffering. Because of this first statement, your second requesting me to prove that any pursuance wasn't suffering was in fact a strawman. You can exist, and not pursue.

Buddhism101
1. existence is suffering (has pain in it)
2. suffering is caused by ignorance of the true nature of self
3. there is a way to be free of suffering
4 the way is the Eighfold Path (right vision, intention, speech, action, livelihood, effort, mindfulness, concentration)

Well it's a good thing I'm not a buddhist, because this seems quite absurd to me.

whatever else you have to say, that is sad and i hope it changes for you.

Yes. Poor me for responding to posts in my thread. Certainly I must change this.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

no- i was hoping you being alone would change.
guess we speak different languages.
peace dude

reply to post by IandEye

---

Peace to you as well.

I wonder what it is you mean by alone? Are you referring to having God in my heart? We're all alone. God is just an imaginary friend, for the truly lonely.

reply to post by unityemissions

---

Alas it was another mistake on my part. It was someone else making a post in response to you. I saw your name and then read the post so in my haste to try and get through the thread I made a mistake.

In essence I feel that the 'atheist' is closest to the true 'spiritualist' than any of the thousands of religions out there.

So I guess that means I can see what you are trying to say here. I just don't quite agree with your stance that it is a coping mechanism. It's a good topic to debate which means that you may be right or you may not be right. You may be partially right or partially not.

When it comes to spirituality/religion we will never know the truth. It's all conjecture and speculation as it is. One persons proof will always be questioned by another. Then again, proof for one person does not constitute proof for another.

It's the never ending debate.

reply to post by Michael the great prince

---

Thank you for the blessing!

I will agree that we're all one family, and we are all connected in some way or another. As in: we're all members of humanity, we all experience suffering, and we all want to be happy in our own way.

Peace, brotha.

reply to post by unityemissions

---

Originally posted by unityemissions "Perception is reality"..... On the whole, perception is reality thing..Reality is independent to any one of us!

It is? We are dependent upon our "perception" to tell us what reality is. And our perception is shaped by, lensed if you will, our beliefs, as any number of cognitive scientific studies will atest. So the question should be, can a subjective by nature creature be truly objective? And even better still, can a subjective creature that convinces it's self that it's subjective experience is objective fact truly be objective? I would argue not, force of denile does not trump anything except in the eyes of the denier.
What we consider "objective fact" is nothing but widely agreed upon opinion or belief and it shows. Despite the denial. Logic tells us that much.

But, this is just a way of "flying the colors" by attacking one of the favorite targets of atheism *the flavor pushed Dawkins, Harris and their ilk or better known as scientism* right?

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by unityemissions

---

Originally posted by unityemissions "Perception is reality"..... On the whole, perception is reality thing..Reality is independent to any one of us!

It is? We are dependent upon our "perception" to tell us what reality is. And our perception is shaped by, lensed if you will, our beliefs, as any number of cognitive scientific studies will atest.

Yes. Agreed.

So the question should be, can a subjective by nature creature be truly objective? And even better still, can a subjective creature that convinces it's self that it's subjective experience is objective fact truly be objective? I would argue not, force of denile does not trump anything except in the eyes of the denier.
What we consider "objective fact" is nothing but widely agreed upon opinion or belief and it shows. Despite the denial. Logic tells us that much.

That's why I say it's independent of any one of us. If I hallucinate a ghost in front of a group of people, and try to convince them that it's there, I'm thought of as crazy. It's not until the group can see this ghost as well, that it becomes reality.

If we previously agree that a light at a stopsign is red, and suddenly we all describe it as blue, does it actually change frequency? No, it's merely our label which has changed, the object remains the same. This is why I think that there is an objective reality which exists, and is independent of any one of us.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions

---

That's why I say it's independent of any one of us. If I hallucinate a ghost in front of a group of people, and try to convince them that it's there, I'm thought of as crazy.

Only in certain circles. Not that caring what others think is something I understand... It's funny how much people let their lives be ruled by such silliness if you ask me. But that is a tangent not directed at you.

It's not until the group can see this ghost as well, that it becomes reality. becomes reality.

Ah. You do realise that here you are essentially asserting it that consensus = reality right? Logic dictates against that btw, you know argumentum ad populai err some such fallacy. Appearances can, and the more we learn, are decieving.
Then there is such arguments as the oh so popular here abouts "Matrix Argument" and it's variations. Then there is the "Holographic Universe" etc.

Not saying you're wrong btw. Just saying it's well within the realm of possibility you are.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

---

You don't care what others think?!

I think this is a lack of empathy, no?

I care about what anyone thinks. Not that I am easily swayed by others opinions, but I of course care enough to take what people say into consideration. Perhaps I'm misunerstanding you?

Are you slightly autistic, by chance?

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions

---

This pertains to the topic you started exactly how?

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

---

I wasn't the one to mention it in the first place! It's just a question. I don't need an answer. Sorry if I offended you. Oh wait, that's not possible, correct? You don't care what other people think. That just seems really wierd. I'm sorry. It seems only autistics and psychopaths would be like that.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions

---

So I take it you plan on avoiding everything else by continuing this absurd disingenuine ad hom?

Do you feel this way too?
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