Spirituality is just a coping mechanism, page 6

reply to post by unityemissions

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What rationalizations? I've been nothing but honest. I already answered this.

Most spiritual people are psychopaths. Go through my posts. You'll see my reasoning. These people are sick in the head. Very.

I suppose I'm spiritual but in no way act like a psychopath. I guess you would claim I'm in the minority assuming I'm not too sick to be truthful. No part of my brain has been excised.

Perhaps you are afraid of what you would become if you did not believe in some overarching control mechanism to keep your behavior in check, whether it be a higher being or some part of your simian architecture. You sound severely traumatized. You sound like you have much shame over something.

The redeeming aspect is your "deep sense" assuming it is really the deep sense at work here. I would say I have that as well and require no manmade law to guide me to do the "right thing". Still, this "right thing" is relative to elements that make up a world, even if it manifests to great degree from within our biology. This simply suggests that actions have consequences, directly and indirectly, that affect others and ourselves. You see the reality of karma in a skull when it lights up under the fMRI.

Do consider that in a culture that rewards the psychopaths, they will flourish for a time. They will be the "haves". The rules will not favor your built in moral framework for the duration. Eventually, however, they will consume themselves as even more powerful checks will come into play, the ones that produced said biology in the first place. This should at least assist you in seeing the relativistic aspect of morality, in a relative way.

Oh, poo may be the most valuable thing to get your hands on if you need to grow flowers or food. I wouldn't knock poo. I wouldn't kiss it either. There is a reason relative to my biology why I should avoid the poo. But, ask a dung beetle what it thinks is better (just pretend you can for the sake of argument).

Whether a turd or a flower is drifting in interstellar space is of no consequence to space (other than its gravity of course). Only when it is placed in relation to something else can its goodness or badness have any sort of meaning. So, these nutters you talk about actually see things in absolute terms in a relative world and are delusional. The Buddhists acknowlege that things in themselves do not exist (so says HHDL) and thus acknowledge karma.


[edit on 10/31/2009 by EnlightenUp]

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Magantice

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Don't you think your concept of soul could just simply be a belief? A comfort for you in troubled times? I understand what people talk about when they say look at the space between things, or your thoughts. I liken it to processing from a different area of the brain. Nothing more. I used to have beliefs in a soul, life after death, but my rational mind went insane trying to prove or disprove this. In the end, I decided it was best not to think of such things. To say, "I don't know" seemed much more appropriate than any belief.

Well sir, I'm glad you are open to more discussion because you are correct when you suggest that my concept of soul is simply my belief.
So you say that because you nearly went insane trying to prove or disprove the soul and life after death etc, you found it was easier to just dismiss the idea of a soul and spirituality. Its my concept of what is real to me.
I have not been able to capture a fart and paint it red but I know for a fact when one is around. As Im sure you do as well. We have other senses we do not use. I would love to be able to do controlled remote viewing. I cannot however prove that this ability even exists. This too is just a belief.

If you had ever seen an angel or actually been involved in a miracle, no one would have to convince you of anything. If you had ever actually had your body overwhelmed by the power of the holy spirit, no one could convince you that your soul does not exist or that a creator does not exist.

I'm quite sure that there are people who believe that Stephen Hawking, Nickoli Tesla, Albert Einstein and others are complete idiots due to their theorys that cannot be proven at this time to all people.

Stating that people who are spiritual are complete psychos is irresponsible on your part because this is something you yourself CANNOT prove.

People who live in the amazon rain forrest have to concept or belief in snow for example, that does not mean snow doesn't exist. They cannot fathom anything they have never experienced.

Why do you need solid proof of anything???? Don't you believe that the posibility exists that you don't know everything? If you have ever loved anyone in your life then you must admit you have a soul. The creator is real in the universe. Once you leave this life here on terra and escape the illusion of reality, you will know for yourself things you cannot concieve of at this time. You probably are confused by the God of the Bible. Most of us are at some point. Do not assume the God spoken of in the bible is the prime creator. The God of the bible is vengeful and possessive as described by man in this written account of " The word".

You cannot prove to anyone what wind is in detail but you know when you feel it and when you are in it. Do you call upon the wind when you cannot cope with reality???? No you do not. Its just there or not there at any given time. The prime creator just IS and requires no proof.

It offends me personally that you feel such distain for people who KNOW something that you do not. Remember that what cannot be proven today
may be proveable tommorrow. Once there was no proof that the earth was round as opposed to flat.

Because I genuinely care about all humanity including you, I would ask you to reserve all judgement about things you have no proof of. The resentment it makes you feel just isnt healthy for you. I wish you peace of mind until the day you have your proof.


dont take off points for spelling or punctuation.......Im not the brightest bulb in the pack.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by Magantice]

Originally posted by Magantice

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Magantice

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Don't you think your concept of soul could just simply be a belief? A comfort for you in troubled times? I understand what people talk about when they say look at the space between things, or your thoughts. I liken it to processing from a different area of the brain. Nothing more. I used to have beliefs in a soul, life after death, but my rational mind went insane trying to prove or disprove this. In the end, I decided it was best not to think of such things. To say, "I don't know" seemed much more appropriate than any belief.

Well sir, I'm glad you are open to more discussion because you are correct when you suggest that my concept of soul is simply my belief.
So you say that because you nearly went insane trying to prove or disprove the soul and life after death etc, you found it was easier to just dismiss the idea of a soul and spirituality. Its my concept of what is real to me.
I have not been able to capture a fart and paint it red but I know for a fact when one is around. As Im sure you do as well.

Yes. No need to capture it or paint it red. It makes itself known by sound, smell.

We have other senses we do not use. I would love to be able to do controlled remote viewing. I cannot however prove that this ability even exists. This too is just a belief.

I'm not convinced we have other senses. As far as I can tell, all else is subconscious processes. I don't think it has anything to do with sensation, just parallel processing going on that we tap into to some extent. I think of intuition as an integral between instinct, & memory.

If you had ever seen an angel or actually been involved in a miracle, no one would have to convince you of anything. If you had ever actually had your body overwhelmed by the power of the holy spirit, no one could convince you that your soul does not exist or that a creator does not exist.

I have had a few "supernatural" occurrences. At the time it seemed miraculous, but have sense analyzed the experience and found reasoning for them all. I think miracles fall into two categories. Intentionally fooling someone or another, like the case of Sai Baba & such, or simply not having an immediate answer for an experience. I do think people experience angels and many other things. I think this is abnormal functioning going on in the brain. It's curious to note, many times people have such experiences is when under extreme duress.

I think some people short-circuit their normal neural processes, and as a coping mechanism the mind produces an experience to get by. Perhaps some people's mind cope by dreaming on top of reality. I think it's all in the mind. Nobody's really out there (angels).

I have had an extended period where I was convinced that I was guided by spirit. After my brother died my family needed me. Many things changed in myself. Now looking back, I was psychotic. That's all. The pain caused me to change personalities, brain-wave state, etc..

I'm quite sure that there are people who believe that Stephen Hawking, Nickoli Tesla, Albert Einstein and others are complete idiots due to their theorys that cannot be proven at this time to all people.

I'm sure there are many. I've heard that Hawking may be wrong on many things. Nobody gets it all correct. Same with Einstein, and to a lesser extent Tesla as well. I'm in coplete agreement that some things need time to be accepted and proven by other people. How long has the concept of spirituality been around? No proof yet. Not a shred of evidence.

Stating that people who are spiritual are complete psychos is irresponsible on your part because this is something you yourself CANNOT prove.

That's not the reason I think they are psychos. I have simply found a high degree of psychos to be interested in teaching spirituality.

People who live in the amazon rain forrest have to concept or belief in snow for example, that does not mean snow doesn't exist. They cannot fathom anything they have never experienced.

True. I am fascinated by the story of the Native Americans who couldn't see the Europeans ships at first, because they had no concept of it. No previous experience. Difference here is, I have had what I thought at the time was spiritual experiences.

Why do you need solid proof of anything???? Don't you believe that the posibility exists that you don't know everything? If you have ever loved anyone in your life then you must admit you have a soul. The creator is real in the universe. Once you leave this life here on terra and escape the illusion of reality, you will know for yourself things you cannot concieve of at this time. You probably are confused by the God of the Bible. Most of us are at some point. Do not assume the God spoken of in the bible is the prime creator. The God of the bible is vengeful and possessive as described by man in this written account of " The word".

I don't only think it possible, it's certain that I don't know everything. That's why I state, the best I can say is I don't know. I see your second statement as absurd, sorry. To love is to experience the soul? Isn't love instinctual?

The illusion of reality...hmm...

I'm not confused by the God of the bible. I long ago put that book aside and concluded that it was hogwash. I do find it important to note that people's concept of God is dependent on the given culture of the surrounding people. That it is both dependent on the era, and the region. God is a blanket term for the unknown. We are curious creatures. What we don't know, we still must put a label on or else most will go crazy. This label for most is God. My label is as it is, I do not (yet?) know.

You cannot prove to anyone what wind is in detail but you know when you feel it and when you are in it. Do you call upon the wind when you cannot cope with reality???? No you do not. Its just there or not there at any given time. The prime creator just IS and requires no proof.

It offends me personally that you feel such distain for people who KNOW something that you do not. Remember that what cannot be proven today
may be proveable tommorrow. Once there was no proof that the earth was round as opposed to flat.

Yeah, I don't think they know anything of this. They believe. If they've truly convinced their selves that they know something unknowable, they are psychotic. Who was it that said, "To know the face of god is madness"?? I take this as we can't know what is incomprehensible to us. Remember, God is just a blanket term for the unknown. To know the unknown is absurd.

Because I genuinely care about all humanity including you, I would ask you to reserve all judgement about things you have no proof of. The resentment it makes you feel just isnt healthy for you. I wish you peace of mind until the day you have your proof.

I have done this in a way, by concluding that we just can't know. In another way I am judging by saying those who know must be psychotic. I don't look down on psychotics. I've been psychotic. I do not like when psychotics try to teach other people, though. Group psychosis is bad juju. I think we can both think of examples on this.

I think it's apparent by now, I'm not (nor has anyone really ever) going to find proof. I think the notion is insane in itself. If someone wants to believe, fine. To equate that belief with knowledge though...that is very dangerous.

dont take off points for spelling or punctuation.......Im not the brightest bulb in the pack.

Not at all. Thanks for taking the time to give your take on this. I appreciate it. Take care.

reply to post by unityemissions

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Do you not see the perfection in everything? I guess such a coincidence is purely explained by science which, by the way, is never 100% proven.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Psychonaughty]

reply to post by Psychonaughty

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Nope, can't say I do. I don't believe in perfection.

Yes, it's quite rare for so much to work out so well for us here on Earth to have these experiences, but the universe is so vast, it's bound to happen somewhere.

reply to post by unityemissions

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Well, i've skipped to the back after reading the first post so ill put my view point in.

The way i see oneness, is that compaired to that of a body.

A body is made up of thousands of cells, each doing their job, but each job effecting the greater whole. The body is one, we do not see it as thousands of things, just the one.
We are like this oneness. Each soul playing their job in the Universe and the Cosmos, each soul helping out the greater whole, which is in turn effecting everything else. When people can accept that we are one, and put aside differences, (much like a plant root cell and a plant stem cell are different) and settle with the fact that no matter colour, race or sex, that in the end, all it comes down to is working together, as one.

So in a sense, we are the same, but different.
We are seperate parts in Oneness.

Namaste.

Originally posted by JacobNH
reply to post by unityemissions

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Well, i've skipped to the back after reading the first post so ill put my view point in.

The way i see oneness, is that compaired to that of a body.

A body is made up of thousands of cells, each doing their job, but each job effecting the greater whole. The body is one, we do not see it as thousands of things, just the one.
We are like this oneness. Each soul playing their job in the Universe and the Cosmos, each soul helping out the greater whole, which is in turn effecting everything else. When people can accept that we are one, and put aside differences, (much like a plant root cell and a plant stem cell are different) and settle with the fact that no matter colour, race or sex, that in the end, all it comes down to is working together, as one.

So in a sense, we are the same, but different.
We are seperate parts in Oneness.

Namaste.

Indeed.

In infinity there cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept.

People are still stuck in the dark, not understanding that they only forget who they are and why they are here as a purposeful mechanism to learn appropriately.

If you were given the cheats to a video game, what would be learned from playing it.

You have been existent for eternity and will be existent for eternity, indefinitley in infinity.

reply to post by Psychonaughty

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Where is this infinity? Why do people speak of this at all? The universe has not been proven infinite. In fact, that would be impossible to do so. I see no reason whatsoever to think that my personal identity existed before this physical body, nor that it will continue to do so afterwords.


I can see the need for such a thought, but have abandoned the need for that need.

We are here as a purposeful mechanism to learn? That doesn't make much sense to me. Why would we, as this infinity, choose to limit ourselves, only to relearn our true state of infinity? What purpose does this serve? To experience being limited? Why? I just can't begin to fathom even being infinity, let alone the will or desires of infinity. How can people be so sure of such things?!


[edit on 2-11-2009 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions

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The veil of forgetfullness insures you are merely within the illusion without rememberance of what you actually are. If you had a perfectly vivid memory of what you have done in past lives and so and so forth than what is it that you shall learn about yourself etc.. etc..? Like having the cheats to a video game, quite the contrary of ethical/logical.

This is why I iterate quite often, when asked for specific information, that it pales to insignificance, just as the grass withers and dies while the love and the light of the One Infinite Creator redounds to the very infinite realms of creation forever and ever, creating and creating itself in perpetuity.

Why then be concerned with the grass that blooms, withers and dies in its season only to grow once again due to the infinite love and light of the One Creator? This is the message I bring. Each entity is only superficially that which blooms and dies. In the deeper sense there is no end to being-ness.

There is no begining and no end it is only infinity one singular existence indefinitley without ending, this interpretation meaning it will go on forever with infinite resources and infinite vortices of probabilities.

Imagine if you will an infinite omnipotent being living as sea of perfection decides to play make believe and begins by breaking itself up in a perfect fashion so as to break up the monotony of infinite perfection. The perfection of the breakup is perfectly realized from the omnipotent beings perspective, but from the perspective of a fragment, not pefectly realized. As these fragments 'coalesce' and become 'more one', they realize more of this truth, but in so doing, also begin to realize that the fragmentation was done on purpose ... quite the conundrum ... as how is this realization to be handled? Should all the other smaller fragments be informed of this realization? Maybe the omnipotent being wanted this experience, as it was done purposefully, and the experience of each fragment as experienced by the whole, and other larger coalesced fragments, was unique and novel and desirable for its novelty. To alter this would be to go against the greater will of the original omnipotent beings perspective.

The primal force being free will (for all fragments from smallest to largest until unity is realized by all) ... the true knowledge being that we cannot be separated ...

Then why would The One want to play "Make believe?"

My comment has often tended to be that the Creator is attempting to gain in knowledge and appreciation of Itself. The Creator wishes to know Itself. Thusly, it sends forth parts of Itself within illusion to see what will happen
and to learn from the colors created in the palette of emotions that you
have created through many experiences and incarnations. This palette
contains your beauty and is unique to you, so that you can teach the
Creator that which no one else in all of Creation is able to teach. For
you are the only one of you in all of the infinite universe. Thusly, it is
your gift to the Creator that comes from you, that is greatly desired.
You cannot please the Creator by being someone else but only by being
most truly and deeply yourself.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Psychonaughty]

reply to post by Psychonaughty

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I want to say first that I really enjoyed your poem, as I take it to be. It was beautiful. Thank you very, very much for it.

All the same, I have to question how an infinite creator could not know every possible outcome to every possibility of creation. How would he not always be experiencing all possibilities, at all times. I simply become mind warped, thinking he both is, and is not creating all there could possibly be, and equally nothing at all.

I wonder how/why a being, already knowing all possible outcomes, would even go about creating at all. My answer is, if there is a being creating for the purpose to see what comes about and experience it, this being is in fact not infinite. Make sense?

I will come back by and reread this. It did provide some inspiration to enjoy my night. Thank you dearly.

reply to post by unityemissions

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To give a being free will is to not know the outcome, but the infinite choices and probabilities to come from it.

We are all the creator experiencing itself indefinitley.

If you were but a infinite being and how would you know yourself if yourself is all that is? How can you know what you look like if there is but no mirror to see your reflection? How can you understand your interactions if there is nothing to interact with?


So many humans are so caught up in their incarnational life, stuck in the dark, believing that they are seperate individuals that will die and that will be the end. When in reallity they have always existed always singular with eachother. They believe in these fabricated religions with a core of truth drowning in a sea of perversions. As if the One Infinite Creator is some seperate revengeful entity. People believe the truth to be outside of themselves, when really they held the truth all along.


It is when you come to the realisation of being singular that you understand the need to help eachother, comfort eachother, love eachother uncoditionally and to be purely altruistic. Just wake up in the morning and feel the sun as it give its unending indefinite love and warmth for nothing in return, as the trees give you oxygen and stretch out to the heavens/space. When is the last time you truely did something for someone without anything in return, not even to feel better for yourself, but instead because of pure uncoditional love for them as a creator just as you.

Look at the world around you, stare at the stars as they reflect back to you their light saying "I'm here, I exist!" Everything has conciousness down to the very keyboard that I type on, every atom has beingness and all is connected in one singular infinity that will never end nor has it ever began it always has been.

We are not supposed to understand such concepts fully until we are again all in unity, for by understanding from our point of view we give a unique perspective to the One Infinite Creator as it strives to better know itself.

Do not have faith, have trust.



[edit on 2-11-2009 by Psychonaughty]

Originally posted by Psychonaughty
reply to post by unityemissions

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To give a being free will is to not know the outcome, but the infinite choices and probabilities to come from it.

We are all the creator experiencing itself indefinitley.

If you were but a infinite being and how would you know yourself if yourself is all that is? How can you know what you look like if there is but no mirror to see your reflection? How can you understand your interactions if there is nothing to interact with?

Interesting take. I will think on this more.

So many humans are so caught up in their incarnational life, stuck in the dark, believing that they are seperate individuals that will die and that will be the end. When in reallity they have always existed always singular with eachother. They believe in these fabricated religions with a core of truth drowning in a sea of perversions. As if the One Infinite Creator is some seperate revengeful entity. People believe the truth to be outside of themselves, when really they held the truth all along.

I definitely don't get stuck in religious thoughts of what God is. I went through a few months of truly being open to the bible, but it seemed to be of no good use for me at all. I do enjoy the red words, what Jesus spoke. I interpret his words much as you are teaching here. From the perspective that we're all one. Then his words have a much deeper meaning, than the literal interpretation that most people seem to be stuck with. When he says, "I am....", I interpret this as, consciousness is....that he spoke from the perspective of being one with the creator, yet few understood. Sad really.

It is when you come to the realisation of being singular that you understand the need to help eachother, comfort eachother, love eachother uncoditionally and to be purely altruistic. Just wake up in the morning and feel the sun as it give its unending indefinite love and warmth for nothing in return, as the trees give you oxygen and stretch out to the heavens/space. When is the last time you truely did something for someone without anything in return, not even to feel better for yourself, but instead because of pure uncoditional love for them as a creator just as you.

Well I experienced the singularity moment by moment as a child. It impacted who I am so much, that it's now nothing at all for me to be altruistic. In the last several years, I have built up certain judgments that have stopped this from being unconditional. I have been mistreated too much from giving. It's hard to mend this in my mind.

Look at the world around you, stare at the stars as they reflect back to you their light saying "I'm here, I exist!" Everything has conciousness down to the very keyboard that I type on, every atom has beingness and all is connected in one singular infinity that will never end nor has it ever began it always has been.

We are not supposed to understand such concepts fully until we are again all in unity, for by understanding from our point of view we give a unique perspective to the One Infinite Creator as it strives to better know itself.

Do not have faith, have trust.

I like how you put that last line, but must think a little about the exact difference between faith and trust. Ah, faith implies a lack of knowledge. It implies belief only. Trust may include knowledge. Very nicely put.

reply to post by unityemissions

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OK this is a long shot and alot fo you might not agree but this is what i think.....

human are born into a depressing world people are greedy the human race as a whole is paranoid scared confused, We cannot and especially as children understand why some many people are dying in countries that we can so easily help. Crime is also another factor of why this world is depressing drugs also do not help as well as alcoholism and not to forget the worst which i think is war. But i think we turn to these thing as a Saviour these religions promises us salvation peace and love and direction but but when people join a religion they feel they might get this. But again a person dosent need this, people dont need this, the world does! so when you join a religion you feel that all these question that go unanswered start being answered and life is now starting to make sense, people have there little routine and start making friend which are happy good people and start to live life. i think its a idea to do with identification or more mabey lack of, once people feel like there apart of some it gives them more identification to the world it make them feel more strong profound stick out more, more bold i spose it is a coping mechanism to be accepted into the world to belong to a big group(a spiritual family almost), religion is a quick way to get answers which i believe is an easy root instead of going on there own spiritual journey (which takes time and effort, money, and everyone like to take the short cut, because human beings are naturally lazy). It is easy to follow a big religion because people are sheep we all are sheep no matter what people say(even if they say "i'm not a sheep" people will follow the masses even if that mass is one person) because humans are brought up in this manner its comes natural to us from the second we come out the womb. If you feel more identified with a religion where there are alot of people in then, good for you! where if you feel more identified with a religion with less people then, good for you! its all about satisfying your inner spiritual needs.
I watched a documentary about people brought up from birth into a religion and in it these people(the ones that are told this is the true way from birth) that truly believe that this is the right way to think, and this is almost hardwired into them, and that all other religion where wrong. I reckon all children should have no religion and let them choose at a sensible age considering it will affect what you believe in for the rest of your life, instead of being born into one which you cant help. it ring a mental bell of the time of slavery when if you where born as a black person and you are forced into a certain way of life. Hopefully people will see the true affect of religion that how dangerous it can be as well as good, i also hope that one day people realize the only way religion will work is if there is one global religion, no little groups or partitions of that just one giant religion, so no one can jihad no one can argue cos we are all the same religion. but the thought's of how to get to one giant religion that the world agrees on cunjors up images of much blood being spilt.

the human race as a whole is confused and scared

i finished my rant now

take it easy guy's

[edit on 4-11-2009 by definity]

reply to post by definity

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All humanity needs to understand is all is one.

Originally posted by Psychonaughty
reply to post by definity

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All humanity needs to understand is all is one.

+1

well put sir

reply to post by Psychonaughty

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They also need to understand the essence of love. If we can understand that we are all one, and that love is the glue to our oneness, then we can really shine.

Namaste.

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