Spirituality is just a coping mechanism

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posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:34 AM
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I kind of agree

I think 'faith' and being religious are coping mechansims for sure.

But I do think everything is connected is some way or another- 6 degrees and all that.




posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
I've been on the fence for years about Spirituality. After careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion that spiritual yearnings are nothing more than an instinctual coping mechanism which functions as a means for individual or group survival in strenuous situations.


I can't say I agree with you, personally, but that's OK, we'll just leave it at that.

Anway, one thing you might want to consider is that you seem to imply that being "just a coping mecahnism" is somehow negative or devalues spirituality in some way. Let's, for the sake of argument, assume you are correct. If our brains have developed this way of thinking as a "coping mechanism," doesn't that mean that, well, IT HELPS US COPE? Is that such an awful thing, then?

I mean, don't the following sentences sound a bit odd?: "Opposable thumbs are JUST a coping mechanism" or "Large frontal lobes and higher IQs than gorillas are JUST human coping mechanisms."

If spirituality, which seems to be found in all times and places, helps us cope with this painful world, than that implies it is somehow useful, necessary, and beneficial. In that light, the challenge for 21st-century man would be to find a way to keep the truly beneficial aspects of this "coping mecanism" while jettisoning the outdated, iron-age ideas that propell us into religious wars or belief that a flat earth was created in 7 days by an old sky-daddy with a white beard.

[edit on 10/14/09 by silent thunder]



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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Cry for help? Perhaps.

However, the 'we are all one' is misleading, but true. We are all one, but we can also be individuals in spirit. The world is not too big for any one person to change it significantly. The ones who want to bunch themselves into a moment of insignificance lose the reality of self-worth. Never forget that you chose your own worth. And I agree, perception is reality. Change your perception and the rest is prologue.


AAC



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


Well the best I can say is ask yourself what makes someone more "educated" then someone else and do i base my opinion off of someone elses "education"? I personally do not, I just look at all the information I get my hands on, base it against my personal experiences, and find the truths for myself. I'm not sure what your looking for, but I hope that you keep your mind and heart open while your looking.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:24 AM
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I agree that spirituality is a coping mechanism - one of the best around, and free. I do not agree that it is *only* a coping mechanism.

Spiritual techniques of various types are taught to businessmen, professionals, and many others who have no interest in God or Spirit. They just want to be able to handle their stress. These techniques, minus the God stuff, work just fine. Many executives who are convinced that God is a load of crap, think nothing of using meditation to relax, focus, tune in. If spirituality had no other use than this, it would be worth it.

However, there is more to spirituality than just "coping". Saying that spirituality is only a coping method is similar to saying that love is only our drive to reproduce the species. True, reproduction is at the root of love, but love is much more than just reproduction. In fact, most o the time love has nothing whatsoever to do with reproduction.

There are those who will say that love really is *just* the urge to reproduce, that our highest emotions, goals, and aspirations are *just* the same basic drives that every animal experiences. This way of thinking is called, I believe, reductionism. Freud said that religious feelings were a desire to return to the infantile stage where we were "omnipotent" ("his majesty, the baby, as Freud said), when all our needs were met, when we had to do nothing at all.

But there's another way of looking at things, too. It may be that everything in ourselves, even our most basic, animalistic urges, are reflections of a Divine urge. Our urge to mate, could be the pale reflection of the Divine desire for unity. A mother's unconditional love for her baby could be the imperfect Earthly equivalent of a perfect Divine love.

So there are two ways of looking at things. All our higher aspirations are just fancy expressions of reproduction and scrabbling for our needs; or, even our most primitive urges are faint shadows of the Divine potential within us.

We get to choose which view we will have. Nothing compels one view over the other.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Tayesin
 


I find it strange that people keep assuming I haven't had what I thought at the time was a spiritual experience. I've actually had several peak experiences throughout my lifetime. It's just that, given proper time to digest it all, I've come to find these experiences can be explained logically.

Perhaps my logical abilities are clouding my ability to connect spiritually. Not sure. I'm not going to say where, but my ability is somewhere in the "superior" range. Always have layers of thoughts rolling around.

I've learned not to be attached to my thoughts, so the layers deepen, but am not yet able to go out my mind. Guess that's what the peak experiences were at the time. It's just been a bit too long since the last one.

[edit on 14-10-2009 by unityemissions]


Yes, forgive my assumption too. I think what is a peak experience for one is not so for another, perhaps?

I know in the classes I taught many sought a mind-blowing, slap-you-in-the-face type of spiritual experience to convert them. Fortunately, we learn Expectations have no place in reality.

Anything can be logically explained away. It is done on these forums with daily occurence, and while the mind is an excellent tool it is not You. It is only the neck-top-computer that operates the body you wear now.

Since your mind is a sharp-edged tool, you then have a great ability to focus intently. And this is no drawback, in fact it is the Key to beckoning experiences by focusing your awareness on what you Intend.

I found ways to simplify things, because in essence everything is simple, it is we who make it complex with our thinking and Beliefs. So, for instance on my website are very simple methods/meditations I used for myself and then have been sharing for about 10 years or so.

They work quite well for anyone who takes their experiences seriously as pointing out further direction for your explorations.

The paths to knowledge and experience of our spiritual nature are not smooth ones, they are rocky and many times it is difficult to understand what the experience is and what it is showing to us about ourselves. I think that is normal too.

And equally normal is how the information from each experience will take time to filter down into full day to day awareness.

You know you can reconnect with any experience you have had by simply preparing for meditation in your usual way and then using the neck-top-computer to focus on how the target experience Felt to you at the time. So a memory will play the part of Key for you.

Once back there you can allow it to become more real by focusing on your feet or other thing that appears to you in the initial stages. this takes the mind away from all the "what ifs" it usually becomes tangled in and allows the experience to grow around you.

Then of course you can move about within that realm and explore.

Be well.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 



I've been on the fence for years about Spirituality. After careful consideration, I've come to the conclusion that spiritual yearnings are nothing more than an instinctual coping mechanism which functions as a means for individual or group survival in strenuous situations.


That can be true for many and there is also a reason why people come together seeking “Positive” energy in strenuous situations, joining together with intention of uplifting the spirit/soul creates a positive energy field that uplifts those in a particular gathering/group!


I do agree, and science postulates that we all root from the same source..from the big bang (in theory), but to then make the leap in logic that we're all one being...how can someone honestly assume such a thing?!


Souls are not all one being but they did come from the same source and are eternally interconnected to all things!


Yes, we're all part of the earth, which is part of the solar system, which is part of the galaxy, which is part of the cosmos. To equate this part with being the whole of the cosmos is erroneous, though! It's like saying a single atomic particle inside our body is the whole of our being!


An atomic particle or soul of a human is not the universe but interconnected to all things within the universe which is interconnected to another universe/existence/dimension and so on- that is correct.


To say that there is only one, is to deny ourself and/or every other other beings existence! This just seems like a naive means to excuse all of our mishaps and encounters, by way of projecting ourselves onto the whole of creation. It's an extreme form of narcissism!


Perhaps some of that is true from a certain perspective/angle/perception!


On the whole, perception is a reality thing. Reality is independent to any one of us! Regardless of whether I'm aware of certain things going on, they happen! Perception is an individuals perspective, based on his life occurrences, and genetic makeup.


I agree with most of this and that is from human perspective/perception/thinking!


I understand the need for spirituality in some people. It's said, "The further you fall, the deeper you go". Spirituality is a coping mechanism for those in so much pain, they can no longer accept their self or the world they live in. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that it is illogical and has no basis in reality.


Spirituality is a coping mechanism in the same way eating is a “Hunger” coping mechanism. Going to a place whether it be a “Church” “Group” or whatever to meet with other like minded people seeking to find uplifting/spiritual things creates a positive energy field that “Feeds” the soul in the same way that food “Feeds” the body and satisfies the hunger!

The definition of "Spirituality" should only mean "Doing things that make you feel good". That is why people eat certain foods or enjoy certain activities because they have fun, enjoy them and it makes them feel good.


Am I alone on this one?


Half/Half from a human perspective/perception!

Awaken The Consciousness, Open Your Minds!
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 03:26 AM
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I think this idea and form of thinkng is absolutely flawed. I am a spiritual being first and a physical being second. I have strongly felt the very power that you have never experienced, every day since childhood. It is actually impossible for me to experience it your way because I experience the spirit world in the physical world.

I actually believe that you have not experienced the soul because certain parts of your brain have no activity, one can have all the intelligence in the world and still never experience this, if those parts of the brain are not functioning. Personally I feel sorry for you because spirituallity and relationship with God are what makes me tick. This is not because I need some sort of religious fix but because I have experienced the metaphysical part of faith and Yes it is very real.

I also see the denial of Gods' Love and existence as a sign of a lack of intelligence and a strong desire to deny the fact that we are all dirt bags and do evil at times. I am actully a scientist and can say that new science is in fact pointing to the existence of a God Almighty, especially in the field of quantum physics.

Believe it God is very real and so is this earth in which we live.

Angel One



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Reality is not set apart from your own experiences and understandings my friend, allow me to give you an example.

YOU have NEVER seen a color. In your whole life, never priviledge to see such a thing. Neither has any other human on the planet.

We've seen plenty of "shades" of colour, but nothing else. What I see as the color "green" may be a completely different thing for than for me. Why is that if reality is not subjective to the human experience?

Spirituality is not a coping mechanism. You are not your brain. Ever thought of where your "thoughts" come from? Not your brain but something else. You brain is simply the medium used to interpret them.

Your body is a tool, the soul is the user.

~Keeper


Very very nice
I knew there was a reason I tagged you as a friend


I am also going to respond to the comment by Conclusion below - who also closely echoes my thinking.

To me 'spirituality' is a mental process. In my definition, the words mystical, or supernatural or magical are not to be related to it at all. It is perfectly natural - and a byproduct of the laws of the universe - in other words, there is a scientific answer to this approach.

The problem is that we have not yet penetrated this area with measurements - we cannot quantify or directly observe it - so it is opaque to the tools of science - that is measurement and observation. Only at the interface between our reality and the underlying holistic reality do we begin to get some data.

When we look at quantum processes - we quickly realize that something is missing - our measurements fail. They break down along a line of probability - or possibility - or chaos - or randomness, all of those words are useful in understanding what happens at a quantum level.

When we consider how we interact with reality - again we must realize that measurements interact purely with reality that is external to our consciousness - that in fact those measurements are converted to electrical signals and interpreted in our mind. Our consciousness does not seem to directly interact with reality at all.

A salient question is - do these interpretation processes occur in physical reality or not? Looking at the scientific evidence - I conclude - NOT.

So where do they occur - in fact, where does the consciousness reside? Well - for me, in the face of complete lack of data - I assume that symmetry is consistent - so I create a an model of reality (a scientific theory) that has symmetry and allows for what is observed.

I use a 7 dimensional model - assuming an asymptote along the temporal axis of time - and 3 'external' dimensions at right angles to the ones we can observe and measure with our conscious minds - reality. Therefore the other 3 dimensions exist in 'unreality' or fantasy - or creativity - or whatever word you might like to label it.

So spirituality to me is not a 'supernatural' idea that springs up to support my emotional needs, but rather an explanation that appears to be required to explain what happens in quantum processes, and how to define where the consciousness resides.

I think that our unconscious minds could quite easily explore those extra dimensions while we sleep - what is there is obviously not reality - so we should not expect it to look or work like it.

Also our brain is divided into left (logical) and right (inferential) hemispheres. If reality was truly divided into true and false - ie everything was based on logic - then we would have no need for inferential processing - everything would be deterministic - and everything could be resolved.

However, it is clear that our senses are inadequate to allow us to discern the difference beteen true and false - therefore nothing can be resolved into binary. Only by ASSUMING something is true can we actually use binary, logical processes - exactly like a computer. If one of those zeroes or ones are wrong - you will get an error - just like a computer.

Inferential thinking on the other hand treats everything as unknown - and simply uses a model of best fit to try and understand incoming data.

So for myself - I think our consciousness resides on the asymptote of time - in the middle of reality and unreality - and is able to make observations in both dimensional sets. Sleeping therefore may be able to resolve some of those inferential models - as we are freed from the constraints of reality or logical thinking - we are able to access the unreal dimensions and make startling jumps in understanding.

That is spirituality for me - a natural process, that becomes necessary to explain the breakdown at the quantum level - inferential thinking, creativity and possibility.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by unityemissions
 


Your argument is very logical. Almost to logical. Take this scenario for instance. A person puts data into a computer to get an answer. The computer gives the answer. Is the computer aware of the answer? Can the computer guess the next question? Not quite yet. I think that quantum mechanics is the science with the most probability to answer questions on spirituality. What scientists have yet to realize is that spirituality is not magic, or at least as we think of the word. It holds to the laws of the universe and I am sure you are not naive enough to believe we know all the laws.




Again - very nice answer
Some real interesting minds on ATs.

I saw some references to 'spiritual' or 'religious' experiences - and I can say I have had them. I have no sense of ego when I say I feel they were entirely related to myself - no external power or whatever.

I have no need for a higher power or anything like that - my experiences were very powerful - and related to bridging conscious and unconscious thought.

As a corollary to my conceptual model of a 7 dimensional universe - then a disturbing side effect is that the interface would have no dimension, and if the consciousness resides there .. then .. that kind of infers that there is only one consciousness - I don't mean to imply that we are all the same consciousness - but rather that is inferred by my model - it disturbs me - but I accept it.

While I lament the need to use the word, I guess a spiritual approach allows total fearlessness, empowerment, tolerance and a host of other benefits. For myself - it has nothing to do with God, a higher power - karma or other stuff I see no evidence for.

It seems to me to stem from the ability to overlay binary and analog mental processes. There is no truth - we simply can;t know it - when we realize that everything is an illusion, and reality has no more relevance or physicality than our own creative thoughts - then you experience everything in a fairly new way.

Again - its not magic, or whatever - it is an applied theory for me.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Angel One
I think this idea and form of thinkng is absolutely flawed. I am a spiritual being first and a physical being second. I have strongly felt the very power that you have never experienced, every day since childhood. It is actually impossible for me to experience it your way because I experience the spirit world in the physical world.

I actually believe that you have not experienced the soul because certain parts of your brain have no activity, one can have all the intelligence in the world and still never experience this, if those parts of the brain are not functioning. Personally I feel sorry for you because spirituallity and relationship with God are what makes me tick. This is not because I need some sort of religious fix but because I have experienced the metaphysical part of faith and Yes it is very real.

I also see the denial of Gods' Love and existence as a sign of a lack of intelligence and a strong desire to deny the fact that we are all dirt bags and do evil at times. I am actully a scientist and can say that new science is in fact pointing to the existence of a God Almighty, especially in the field of quantum physics.

Believe it God is very real and so is this earth in which we live.

Angel One



Thanks for proving my point on many levels.


What is seen here is pure arrogance. Funny, you claim to be spiritual yet spout out absolutes?! Isn't that type of thinking flawed?!

Once again, I've felt spirit in everything before. Actually, this is how I was until about the age 13. I noticed it drop off of most people early, but it remained in me until I became a teenager. Then it came back, and left, and came back, and left...

I simply have found it to be projections of internal needs. I don't think there's any reality to what we're projecting. It's just an additional layer put onto objects to provide comfort to people who are lonely, and/or hurt deeply.

You can go on and think I lack intelligence for "denying god", but from my perspective it's just not so. I think it's a lack of personal willpower, to find the need of adding an extra layer to reality because someone so desperately needs the comfort.

Why is it that most people "find god" when they hurt so much?! When we cut ourselves, endorphins are released to counter the pain. When we hurt internally, spirit is projected onto the world to counter our pain.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
Sure I've thought about where my thoughts come from. They come from chemical reactions going off in the brain which respond, in part, to physical stimuli. It has yet to be proven, that the brain-dead think. Until that evidence is brought forward, I see no good reason to think otherwise.


I think the chemical reactions theory is just like when man looked at the earth and figured it was flat because thats all they could see.

There is no way random chemical reactions alone creates our complex thinking patterns. If it was just chemical reactions, we would have chaos up there.

Perhaps spirituality is a coping mechanism, but it works. And it works far better than religion. To believe there is a purpose to life is important, because there sure is no purpose to working and breeding alone (except for the purpose of bringing more humans to the planet). Its just a big hamster wheel - completely meaningless. We all know that.


[edit on 14-10-2009 by Copernicus]



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by Copernicus
 


Well, much of our thought process is chaotic! We eventually find order through the chaos. I could see someone not being able to grasp, how complex thought processes can occur from bundles of neurons and chemical processes, but are you aware how incredibly complex the human mind is?!

I've heard there are at least 100 billion neurons, and each can make 10,000+ connections. Not only that, it process in parallel! We don't yet know exactly how the brain works, so it can't really be proven one way or another yet. What we do know is that people who have brain damage, have obvious deficits. Why else would this be, if not because the brain is where we process?



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


Well, if you think of the brain as a antenna, brain damage only causes it to get scrambled signals. It still works. And it still receives signals, even though the processing of the signals may not work 100% and therefore may not be interpreted the same way by the person.

So I think its clear that we process data in the brain, but its not certain we create everything that pops up into our minds, like ideas and so on.

Of course there is no way to prove any of this though.



[edit on 14-10-2009 by Copernicus]



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Copernicus
 


I do find this line of thought interesting. Starred you.

Many times ideas seem to pop into my mind. Like I don't logically follow step by step to arrive at these notions, yet there they are. I think this can be explained as subconscious processing. Metaphorically, it's said that the conscious mind is like the tip of the iceberg, and the subconscious is everything under water. Who knows, though. You could be correct.

I think it may be more accurate to think of our senses as the antenna, and our brain as the supercomputer. I'm not saying your perspective is off, just that ours differ a little.

edit to add: last paragraph

[edit on 14-10-2009 by unityemissions]



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by unityemissions
 


So could you.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Amagnon
 


Hi

Enjoyed your views here and have a question.

What is your view on "after-life"?



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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Okay, so basically I want to conclude this thread by letting people know that of course, these thoughts of mine are just that, thoughts and opinion.

I don't know any of what I said to be true or false, actually. I've simply come from being spiritual, to being agnostic. I don't think either way can be proven. At least not yet. It simply works better for me to leave this all up in the air. To not hold spiritual beliefs as absolutes, or to discount them entirely.

I guess in the beginning I did discount them absolutely. This was my folly. I'm leaving this topic as stated above: I just don't know, and this is what works best for me.

I do try and respect others beliefs, so am sorry if I offended people.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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Humans are logical and emotional. Science is a tool for our logic. Spirituality is a tool for our emotions. I believe that we need both to be stable, balanced, and healthy. I also believe that science and spirituality are only as divided as the individual looking at them.



posted on Oct, 14 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
Okay, so basically I want to conclude this thread by letting people know that of course, these thoughts of mine are just that, thoughts and opinion.

I don't know any of what I said to be true or false, actually. I've simply come from being spiritual, to being agnostic. I don't think either way can be proven. At least not yet. It simply works better for me to leave this all up in the air. To not hold spiritual beliefs as absolutes, or to discount them entirely.

I guess in the beginning I did discount them absolutely. This was my folly. I'm leaving this topic as stated above: I just don't know, and this is what works best for me.

I do try and respect others beliefs, so am sorry if I offended people.


I don't see any conflict with being agnostic and being 'spiritual'. I consider myself to be both - though generally people would classify me quickly as an atheist.

I think these questions are far too complex to be able to arbitrarily apply labels to people - I am not resistive to labels per se' - but I find that generalization in these matters more often than not simply leads to confusion.

You should not feel the need to resolve these matters into binary answers of true and false. It is a logical need, purely originating from the left side of the brain - and will offer you only one solution - the 'right' solution. That is - you will create a belief, and then you will be stuck into a linear paradigm that refuses to accept new information on the subject - regardless of the utility or basis of that data.

Your final answer of - I don't know - is absolutely the best answer for everything, ESPECIALLY things that we think we know for certain. If you can apply that philosophy of UNKNOWN - to everything, then you stop screening incoming data - and you allow yourself to entertain multiple viewpoints at once - it is a great basis for tolerance.

Think well - be well





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