You Are What You Think-

reply to post by DataWraith


"Nothing Could Be Closer To The Truth" - Again - Be the Change That You Want To See. This Is not a fairytale, it is called -"Change."


[edit on 13-10-2009 by catalyst2466]

reply to post by Ethereal Gargoyle

Originally posted by Ethereal Gargoyle
reply to post by v01i0

 

But what I was getting at was simply the experience of *little* children who are beaten and abused. They are not mimicking anything, they are simply being abused and suffering.
How would that gel with the theory that we are *totally* responsible for our reality?

OR.... at which point in life, at what age, does a person become the "master" of his reality (one way or another, i.e. a good or poor manager of his experience)?

You raise many good questions in your post of which I shall present my opinions.

About children mimicking. Of course they wouldn't be responsible for anything in condition where they are merely receivers of bad conduct on behalf of adults.

In later of their life, however, they'll become responsible if they choose to continue on the path their parents gave them example to. It is quite common - unfortunately - that we attach to emotions and experiences of past and this causes the behavioural patterns adopted in past to continue in the future.

And in what point person becomes a "master" of life? I'd quess it depends. Some may never attain mastery of one's life, and some do earlier than others.. I guess when one gains true individuality (individual = un divideable), meaning that one is one whole self.

-v

[edit on 13-10-2009 by v01i0]

reply to post by v01i0


Thank you.
What I meant by "master" (another bad expression) was simply this: assuming that we really "are what we think" (I am on the fence about this).... at which point in life then does the supposed creative power of one's thoughts start coming into effect? (I mean autonomously, not as the recipient of the adults' behavior)?

I am not sure this question is clear. If it isn't just leave it and I'll try to word it differently when I am feeling more articulate.
(I am thinking maybe June 2010..... )





[edit on 13-10-2009 by Ethereal Gargoyle]

reply to post by Ethereal Gargoyle

Originally posted by Ethereal Gargoyle
reply to post by v01i0

 

at which point in life then does the supposed creative power of one's thoughts start coming into effect? (I mean autonomously, not as the recipient of the adults' behavior)?

I think the "individual" part of my previous post addresses this issue. The meaning of individual is clear. However, sometimes we see people talking about "persons", and word 'persona' stands for 'a mask' in it's original meaning.

So basically, when one casts aside his persona and becomes individual, there will be fundamental change towards independence. About the age when this might happen, I really can't say anything exact. It really depends from so many factors. As I said, other persons will never be nothing more than persons, and some individualize in early ages - but the distinction between persona and individual can be a line drawn in water.

Originally posted by Ethereal Gargoyle
reply to post by v01i0

 

I am not sure this question is clear. If it isn't just leave it and I'll try to word it differently when I am feeling more articulate.
(I am thinking maybe June 2010.....

)

No worries, I feel just as inarticulate.

Sincerely,

-v

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by andy1033

 

Ya noticing you and I, who have a LOT to critique about 'thoughts of fairies and unicorns dancing together' (otherwise known as positive thinking, or stinking, if you want my honest opinion) are being completely ignored? Reality just doesn't seem to exist for some people.

Dude, I think you are just jaded that your life has not turned out the way you dreamt it. Being positive and being delusional are two separate things.
Being positive does not get you stuff like wives and jobs. We all know that.

You are partially right though, your version of reality does not exist for me. I am not bitter at experiencing life purely because it is not what I thought it would be. Being positive won't get you stuff but it will change the way you relate to it, feel about it or perceive it.

Considering the discussion is positive in nature, perhaps people are not ignoring you per se but rather your negativity. I guess, as the OP feels it is worthwhile to points out, life may be all about how you look at it.

reply to post by atlasastro


But imagine having people mind control every day, and taking what you want and totally wrecking your chances in life. there are people behind the scenes doing this to me, and they must do it to others.

People that can live in peace and quiet and not get teh level of haressment and etc i got must be happy. Imagine, having everything you want being taken away from you every time you want to do something.

Even the most rubbish job in the world they destroy so your life goes absolutely rubbish.

I have lived with this and everyone who knows me that this is true, but they must do this to many others too.

reply to post by atlasastro


*Hits buzzer* Oooh. Thanks for playing but you are WRONG. I worked myself into a frenzy for actual, real world items. I was stopped at every turn, every chance. No amount of 'happy thoughts' got me off the ground. Ya dig, Tink?

But then again, because I'm not sitting around thinking warm fuzzy thoughts about the cosmos and applying metaphysical gobbledygook like it was cheap caulk, I must be either delusional or negative, eh?

GET. REAL.

reply to post by Ethereal Gargoyle


everything the human brain does is based off of past experience. do you remember your earliest days? kids exist at a higher state of awareness then us because they just experience. i think we should just experience and stop worrying about fiscal responsability and all these pressures from society. its not about being broke. who cares if your broke its the same as being rich. try not to choose weather or not your enjoying it and just enjoy it. no matter what it is. trust it makes everything a lot easier.

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by atlasastro

 

*Hits buzzer* Oooh. Thanks for playing but you are WRONG.

I think I am right. I think you are bitter at life. Which is natural, In the OP, the discussion has proposed that this can change with simply being positive. I agree to an extent.

I worked myself into a frenzy for actual, real world items. I was stopped at every turn, every chance.

So it was "other" people who stopped you. So being positive or not has nothing to do with your situation, has it?
Why did you need to be in a frenzy to get stuff? Does working oneself into a frenzy mean you should get "stuff".

No amount of 'happy thoughts' got me off the ground. Ya dig, Tink?

Yes, I dig that you are bitter. You believe that because you had expectations and they were not met that being positive must be warm fuzzy metaphysical goobledygook.

Being positive you will be getting stuff and being positive about stuff is not the same thing. Ya dig!

Has not having happy thoughts got you of the ground?

Do we define the success of positive thinking purely by what has happened to YOU?

Having expectations and then being "happy" will not get you stuff. I think I have been pretty clear in saying that. IF you believed that this was so then the fault of your unrealistic expectations has no bearing on the ability of positive thinking actually being able to effect another persons reality.

But then again, because I'm not sitting around thinking warm fuzzy thoughts about the cosmos and applying metaphysical gobbledygook like it was cheap caulk, I must be either delusional or negative, eh?

It is not what you are not thinking that makes me say that you are delusional or negative but actually what you are thinking that makes me say this. You are delusional. You actually thought being positive would give you stuff like a wife and a job.

I worked myself into a frenzy for actual, real world items.

Holy crap. I was GOING to work the job of my dreams, come hell or high water. When the prayer didn't work, I ground on, determined to do it on my own, because I KNEW I could. I was going to get married. Oh, yes. If I had to bend the laws of space and time, I was gonna get married.

When did dreaming about a job get you one. You admit here that you thought that the rules of the universe did not apply to you just because you were positive. This is not being positive. This is being delusional. I know you have used cliches in here like "hell or high water" and "bend the laws of space and time" but this only illustrate the unrealistic expectations you placed on yourself.

I have expressed a belief in an earlier post that I do not accept that purely being positive in thought will reap effects because I have stated that the external world influences us just as much as our internal thoughts and feelings. I also believe that we have to be mindful of these external influences as they co-exist simultaneously with our own positive thoughts and they overlap and influence each other. So when I say that being realistic about expectations I am inferring that one include the reality of a situation when one is applying positive thoughts or feeling to that situation. In other words, be realistic and honest with yourself.

I say you are negative because You are negative as you are arguing against a philosophy, you are not pro the argument for positive thinking, you are against it and debase and ridicule others for supporting it. I would say that is evidence of your negative stance on the effects of being positive. Hence you are negative.

I believe this is a result of the bitterness you hold from failing to have expectations fulfilled. You blame others for these not being met. You infer that just because you were positive and did not get what you wanted, even though others worked against you, that this implies that being positive has no effect or result on ones endeavors.

Read what the OP actually says: Things happen, but when we change our perspective into a positive rather than dwelling on the negative, we will Create a Positive Change.

Where does the OP say that you will just get stuff?

GET. REAL.

I am real. I am just not bitter. I just visited my friend today in hospital. He has been there for over 3 months now. He was homeless. Has been a chronic alcoholic for over 20 years. His mother died when he was 8. His dad died a few years later. The father of his two half brothers refused to take him in with his other brothers after his dad died so he grew up in state homes and intermittent foster care. In state care he was sexually and physically abused by both carers and older boys.
Today he told me he may be leaving hospital soon and can't wait to start again. He is 44. He has nothing. Absolutely nothing. Yet, he is positive about the chance he has. The lesson he received from the heart failure and severe kidney and liver problems that resulted from his chronic alcohol abuse. One of his aunties is back in contact with him and so too his cousin, which he has not seen since 1990. He believes this would not have happened had he not ended up in hospital and near death.
He does not blame anyone for his life.
It has been tough. He has made mistakes. People have treated him woefully, and vice versa.
But he is not bitter.
He is positive. He believes he, and his life can and will change for the better. He is feeling positive.

I see the change in him. From the most negative situation, to a man who sees himself as having a life. Just having a life.
Alive.
Positive.
From one of self destruction in negativity.
To one of being Alive, and positive.

Piled up next to your story of not getting stuff has not convinced me that being positive is bunk. For I have seen it work.

Have you heard of Logotherapy?
The pioneer was a jewish prisoner in a Nazi concentration camp. His name is Viktor E. Frankl. He has an excellent book titled Man's Search For Meaning. The last chapter of which is a postscript added to the original in 1984 is titled The case for Tragic Optimism in which it states life offers us a chance to turn human suffering into achievement and accomplishment. Deriving from guilt the chance to change oneself for the better and lastly and most importantly, being inspired by life as a short and transitory existence that insist we take responsible action.

Take from it what you will, but you have to wonder about a guy who gets locked up in a cage, has his entire life taken from him, watches his people being dehumanized and butchered but can still find a reason to live by being positive which leads him on a search for the meaning of existence in the most horrific of situations.

But hey, I mean, you didn't get stuff. And stuff didn't happen for you the way you wanted it and oh! Yeah people did stuff to you and stopped you. And being happy and positive is warm fuzzy goobledygook.

*Hits buzzer* Oooh. Thanks for playing but you are WRONG!

Hi Atlasastro, it is very late here in Melbourne, and so I will not stay on, need to get some sleep. Just reading your post here, it is astounding the insight and understanding that you do share. The ignorance that is displayed from certain feed backs, does rest uneasy and has a dry and sarcastic feel towards the truth of 'positive reinforcement' -given in any source of field.

Thank you for your honest and intelligent communication regarding the 'Influence of Positivity" and Intelligent debate on civil communications. Again you have thoroughly stressed the true origin of the topic at hand.

Also having mentioned other people as a true exemplar of having gone through the bottom of life; only to fight back with zeal and renewed strength and 'Positivity' in starting a 'New Life.' Thank you for your striking intelligence and positive feedback. There will be those that scoff, but your 'Message has come Accross Loud and Clear.' -Catalyst.