what makes you believe the world is round?, page 4
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reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 05:07 PM by moocowman
reply to post by woodwardjnr





but 50% of people on this board would disagree despite the evidence.

Yes there is a collective name for them - "The deluded" you see it doesn't matter to them whether the earth is flat, round or made of bubble wrap what matters is what they are told to believe.

A book tells one person the earth is flat, another book offers me evidence that the earth is a sphere, so I suppose normal people base their opinnion on best available evidence.


reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 05:20 PM by ImplausibleDeniability
Originally posted by semidiablan
Evolution is a theory because there is no proof. The proof that the Earth is round is a photo from space and the realization you can fly in a straight line and end up back where you started. Where is this "snapshot" of evolution? We have proof that leads us to believe in evolution, but there is no solid proof (skeletons, etc). I grew up believing in evolution, and I think the theory is correct to some extent, but there is much more for us to learn.


Be careful with your terminology semidiablan. The word 'theory' means two different things and it's easy to get confused.

From the wiki link:
en.wikipedia.org...

A theory, in the scientific sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of empirical observations. A scientific theory does two things:

1. it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena, and

2. makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class.


The everyday meaning of the word, on the other hand, makes the word sound much floatier...more based in conjecture and guesswork. This is not the meaning that should be used when talking about evolution. Think about it as the formal vs. informal meaning of the word.

Originally posted by Conclusion
Very interesting about the rabbit and Dawkins. So what do you think of this?


Conclusion, that's fascinating...I myself believe that historians are pretty clueless about the true history of mankind. I am hopeful that the current fears of global warming and its effect on sea levels will kindle an interest in what happened at the end of the last ice age when water levels rose by over 400 feet. If you think that the majority of today's population lives near the coastline, it should make you wonder about what lies hidden just offshore in the Mediterranean, South China Sea, India, and other cradles of civilization.

But getting to the point I think you are making, i.e. that academia has a long track record of ignoring evidence, I have to agree with you. That said, when put to scientific scrutiny, our current understanding of evolution as an explanation of life and its diversity does a better job than any other explanation to date.

The examples that are mentioned in your article, i.e. footprints in 150 million year old mud, often are discounted simply because there is an overwhelming mountain of evidence to the contrary. The burden of proof must be on the new evidence...possibilities should be entertained, but if you were to take this as proof that modern humans existed that long ago and left no other traces anywhere in the chronological record for the next 149,000,000 years...too much other data would have to be thrown out. I.e. more data is necessary.

Of course if you ask me, it's probably some dude with a time machine out looking for a place to take a leak.



reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 09:42 PM by downtown436
reply to post by woodwardjnr



Most every species on this planet was transplanted from other planets. In fact all the different races of humans were imported here from other planets.

Evolution within a species is possible, through selective breeding. However, you just can't randomly turn a virus into a monkey by chance. I don't care how many years you give it.

Sorry but evolution is just a crutch used by people that cannot fathom the fact that we are not alone in the Universe, and that there are intelligences far beyond our pitiful imaginations out there.

OOOOOhhhh ooohhhh oohhhhh ooooohhhhhhh BUT WHERE IS YOUR SCIENCE TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM?????

It got destroyed with most of the other good stuff, in the library of Alexandria.


reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 11:35 PM by Lasheic
reply to post by downtown436




However, you just can't randomly turn a virus into a monkey by chance.


If you don't even have a basic working concept of what the hell you're talking about, then what in god's creation makes you think you could possibly have anything worthwhile to say on the subject?

I don't know what you think evolution is, or what the theory states, but it is not what you're attempting to describe. You might as well be giving me mechanical advice and suggesting that my car's acceleration is acting boggy because some of the miniature horses who live inside of the piston cylinder are sick.



Sorry but evolution is just a crutch used by people that cannot fathom the fact that we are not alone in the Universe, and that there are intelligences far beyond our pitiful imaginations out there.


And if you knew had a clue, you'd understand why Evolution has nothing at all to say about the possible existence of Alien Intelligences. To spout such ridiculous falsehoods and fallacies, yet you have the gall to promote and reiterate absurdities which I'm pretty damned well sure you HAVE been corrected on before at one time or another... and claim those that do display an accurate understanding and/or accept evolution are deluded or weak minded?


OOOOOhhhh ooohhhh oohhhhh ooooohhhhhhh BUT WHERE IS YOUR SCIENCE TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM????? It got destroyed with most of the other good stuff, in the library of Alexandria.


Coincidentally enough, however, one of the works which did survive the Library's various assaults and eventual destruction was a comprehensive and highly promoted treatise on astronomical and mathematical theories written by Claudius Ptolemaeus titled Almagest. I happen to have a copy sitting right next to me. However.. there seems to be not a single reference, allusion, or inclusion of any of this "good stuff" you speciously allude to having once existed. Apparently, if it was contained in the Library, your "evidence" was not highly regarded or trustworthy even to the Hellenistic Scholars.

The Almagest is also profoundly wrong on some basic astronomical arguments. For instance, it promoted (and is partially responsible for the staying power) of the Geocentric model. A model that would not be usurped in academic circles until Copernicus and Galileo over a millenia later. Yet.. we also know that Heliocentric theory is not a new idea. It was proposed by Aristarchus of Samos several centuries before Ptolemy finished his "final word" on Astronomy. Unfortunately, most of Aristarchus's work was lost to the various Library fires and overall neglect. All we have left is an incomplete work of On the Sizes and Distances [of the Sun and Moon], and a reference to a later and more accurate model which Archimedes referenced to himself in his own work The Sand Reckoner.

Yet where, in any of these work or correspondences are direct references or mentions to that which you describe?


reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 01:49 AM by noonebutme
Originally posted by Conclusion
Evolutionists say birds grew hollow bones for less weight in order to fly. How would a bird pass this long-term plan to the millions of generations in order to keep the lighter bone plan progressing? The idea that birds or anything else has million-generation evolutionary plans is childish. The evolutionary concept of growing a wing over millions of generations violates the very foundation of evolution, natural selection.

Birds aren't the only species that proves the theory of natural selection to be wrong.


(I don't know whether you were posting that article because you're for or against evo but...)

You do realise that in the example of birds and hollow bones -- there is no "grand plan" for the future generations in that respect.

Evolution and mutating genes aren't happening because some innate process "smartly" decided to adapt.

Over millions on years, random mutations happen. Maybe environmental induced or a "defect" in the DNA of that generation. So in one generation, maybe 4 different lines of bird had a mutation. Some feathers were thicker, some wings were shorter, some beaks were yellower, some mutations resulted in a higher likelihood of continual, uncontrollable tissue growth (tumours) and in one, the bones were lighter or more hollow.

So when the predators of said birds comes along, they're able to kill all the birds with yellower beaks, thicker feathers and shorter wings and tumours.

But, the one that had lighter bones, he was able to get away easily. So he was able to pass his genetic code to the next generation. And they inherited that "mutation" which allowed them to get away more readily.

And the process continued.

Seems far more logical to me than the notion of an intelligent Creator.



reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 07:20 AM by Amagnon
Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Seeing as I would guess none of us here have been to space and seen the earth from up there, why do we believe the world is round?

It's now common knowledge that the world is round that gravity exists. These things are Truth's.

Yet when we talk about evolution which is as much as a scientific truth as the world being round and gravity, why is there so much debate on the subject, when so much scientific evidence is there to support it?


When you say 'we' in terms of the use of the word belief - leave me out.

I am OFFENDED that you capitalize the word Truth and make some stupid and outrageous claim that you know what it is or isn't.

I do NOT believe the world is round, I do NOT believe in gravity, and I do NOT believe in evolution.

I also do NOT believe in God, or religion, and I don't NOT believe it either - I believe nothing.

All belief is unfounded - we have evidence that the world is a sphere - but mainly we are just told it is.

We experience some force downwards - and are told it is gravity - we can do calculations and find the acceleration approximately - but that does not mean it exists at all, let alone it is as described and explained to us by experts.

We simply don't know - we have a limited range of senses - most of our infomration comes to us second hand - things we told.

There is no basis to believing ANYTHING - if you do - you shut your mind to the alternatives - you filter any other possibilities, and ultimately you will fail to understand - or even be able to comprehend when alternative information comes in - you will ASSUME IT IS WRONG - you will find ways to make it wrong, or discredit it - because it conflicts with what you believe.

Can you image how hard it was for people to go from believing the world was flat, to believing it was round? What if they never originally believed it was flat in the first place - then evidence that it was round could easily be accepted.

Beliefs destroy your ability to accept and process information - you have FACTS, and TRUTH - when actually - all you really you have are ASSUMPTIONS - mostly things that people TOLD you.

We know nothing - but if we carefully gather evidence - accepting the possibility of anything, then one day we may begin to understand.


reply posted on 14-10-2009 @ 11:05 AM by Conclusion
reply to post by ImplausibleDeniability



You know I will agree with you about science is doing a good job, but only from a scientific perspective. The mainstream scientists are to quick to scrutinize anyone that offers a different explanation though. When we all work together, only then will answers be found. I think that evidence on both sides is compelling. Alas both sides will not work together.
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