"Don't ask don't tell", 21st century apartheid in America

reply to post by Southern Guardian


your right and at that time they had not right to serve for years they had no right because once more sg, it is a privilege to serve in the armed forces not a right. HOWEVER there were laws banning discrimination based on race religion or creed in public serves. And again gays can serve just don't ask don't tell and don’t harass. Should gays be allowed to serve? YES! And they do and most do a good job keeping it to them self’s. I liken this rule to the weight standards of the army. They are in place so you look good in your uniform. Are they outdated yes should they be changed? NO! I say no fatty’s! I don't like to look at them or how they look in the uniform. There are rules in place for a reason to PROTECT people. You want to be out than do your time and get out than you can be out all you want. Till than shut it I don't want to hear about it I don't want to see it and I certainly don't ever want to have to report it.

and here is a prime example as to why the poloicy is in place.

(31 August 1977 – 6 July 1999) was an infantry soldier in the United States Army, whose murder by a fellow soldier, Calvin Glover, became a point of reference in the ongoing debate about the law known as "Don't ask, don't tell" that enforces the military to discharge service members based on sexual orientation.

and here is some more.

A native of Missouri, Winchell enlisted in the Army in 1997 and was transferred in 1998 to Fort Campbell, Kentucky. As a Private First Class, he was assigned to the 2/502nd Infantry of the 101st Airborne Division. While stationed at Fort Campbell, he received a Dear John letter from his high school sweetheart. Winchell later accompanied his roommate, Justin Fisher, and other soldiers for an excursion to the Nashville downtown bars. In 1999, Fisher and others took Winchell to a Nashville club "The Connection", featuring transgender performers, and Winchell met a male-to-female transgendered showgirl named Calpernia Addams.[1] The two dated and Fisher began spreading rumors of the relationship at Ft. Campbell where both were serving. Winchell then became a target of ongoing harassment and it is apparent that his superiors did little to quell the harassment.[2]

The harassment was continuous until the Fourth of July weekend, when Winchell and fellow soldier, Calvin Glover, fought after Winchell accused a boasting Glover of being a fraud. Both were drinking beer throughout the day. Glover was soundly defeated by Winchell, and Fisher harassed Glover about being beaten by Winchell. Fisher and Winchell had their own history of physical altercations as roommates in the barracks of Ft. Campbell. Fisher continued to goad Glover about being beaten by Winchell. Subsequently, Glover took a baseball bat from Fisher's locker and struck Winchell in the head with the baseball bat as he slept on a cot outside near the entry to the room Winchell shared with Fisher in the early hours of 5 July 1999.[3] Winchell died of massive head injuries on 6 July. Glover was later convicted for the murder of Winchell; Fisher was convicted of lesser crimes regarding impeding the subsequent criminal investigation, and both were subsequently incarcerated at the United States Disciplinary Barracks.[4][5] The murder charges against Fisher were dropped and Fisher was sentenced in a plea bargain to 12.5 years, denied clemency in 2003, released to a halfway house in August 2006, and released from all custody in October. Glover is serving a life sentence.

lets end don't ask don't tell Good idea yeah

link


[edit on 13-10-2009 by ashnomadonte]

reply to post by ashnomadonte


So basically you list some cases and this is to assume this will happen to every individual? I dont think any patriotic serving soldiers who happen to be gay are going to be opposed due to afew cases.

If there are homosexuals who wish to serve without risk of being harrassed, Im pritty sure they can make the decision themselves as to what to identify as. However there are gays out there who dont quiet frankly give a damn about what the bigots think, they have the right as the founding fathers gave to them to identify themselves.

You people are just unbelievable. You reference afew cases, another member stereotypes all gays as supposed "sexual addicts", its because of your blind views, your stereotypical views that you think this law should be place. This policy really is anti-homosexual.

It's certainly something seeing a spike in soldiers being kicked out of the army though. Just say your homosexual and that trip to boot camp will be no more. Another example of how this policy is just doing wonders for the military.

The spokesperson, Kim Waldron, a civilian who works for the U.S. Army Forces Command at Fort McPherson, Ga., said the active duty deployment of Reservists and National Guard troops who say they are gay, or who are accused of being gay, takes place under a Forces Command or “FORSCOM” regulation issued in 1999.

Waldron said the regulation is aimed at preventing Reservists and National Guard members from using their sexual orientation — or from pretending to be gay — to escape combat.

“The bottom line is some people are using sexual orientation to avoid deployment,” Waldron said. “So in this case, with the Reserve and Guard forces, if a soldier ‘tells,’ they still have to go to war and the homosexual issue is postponed until they return to the U.S. and the unit is demobilized.”

www.washblade.com...

This aint just about identity, this is also about the impact on the military, and how many are having to come to terms with the reality of the situation.

SG

Southern, I think you're missing the fact that while the constitution protects the rights of every American, no matter what their sexual orientation, or color or what have you, it does nothing to protect an American from getting himself/herself pummeled daily by people that have no respect for the above types of people and whatever rights they have. THAT is what Don't Ask Don't Tell is for. It's sad that a bill like that is needed, but for now it's all gays have if they want to serve in the military without getting there faces kicked in by "real men".

Originally posted by Quaght
Southern, I think you're missing the fact that while the constitution protects the rights of every American, no matter what their sexual orientation, or color or what have you, it does nothing to protect an American from getting himself/herself pummeled daily by people that have no respect

And? Some people are proud about who they are. This isnt a sufficient excuse, homosexuals can make the decision themselves as to how to deal with a matter.

for the above types of people and whatever rights they have. THAT is what Don't Ask Don't Tell is for.

That is absolutly BS and Iv already replied to this kind of excuse. How the heck does this policy protect gays by forcing them to stay shut? Are homosexuals incapable of making the decision themselves as to whether they want to identify? This policy does BS to protect any homosexual, it just forces ever homosexual to keep shut without leaving the decision themselves to make.

If a homosexual wishes to take the risk, let them make that decision themselves which they are capable of. This policy was just place to keep the military gay free and thats it.

Did you know that over the last 8 years the military had an extra $1 trillion added to their budget? That money in part game out of the pockets of tax paying americans who are told at the same time they are not accepted.

Sorry its BS. Its the 21st century, that policy needs to go.

"Apartheid was a system of legal racial separation which dominated the Republic of South Africa from 1948 until 1993, However, the mechanisms of apartheid were set in place long before 1948, and South Africa continues to deal with the repercussions. Under apartheid, various races were separated into different regions, and discrimination against people of color was not only acceptable, but legally entrenched, with whites having priority housing, jobs, education, and political power. Although South Africa was heavily criticized for the system, it was not until 1991 that the legal system of apartheid began to be broken down, and in 1993 was thrown out altogether with the election of Nelson Mandela, the first black democratically elected President of South Africa. The term is also used more generally around the world to refer to systemic racism which is tolerated, rather than confronted."

Is this going on in America?... or are you one of those people that for some reason feel the need to always illogically compare the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's to the Gay rights movement of today. They are two separate things that have NOTHING to do with each other. Find a better analogy. Please don't reply by asking me "How are they not the same thing?" , Because then I fear I'll have to explain the fundamental differences between apples and oranges as well.

Personally Having served in the Military , I knew a few guys that were gay and I never had a problem with it. What they did during Libo was their business in my opinion.