Everything has become illegal

reply to post by chiron613


There are no victimless crimes when it comes to illegal drug use. Someone always gets hurt- whether it be the family torn apart by drug use, or the victims of robberies, from addicts who need money to get their fix. Besides, it is nearly impossible to get caught doing drugs if one does them in the privacy of their own homes, and does not sell them.

reply to post by defcon5


I know enough of the laws, and have enough common sense not to get caught speeding, running lights or blowing stop signs.
In Virginia, red-light tickets are simply $45 fines- no points. Also, if one goes to court for them, they generally get off, although it is easier to just pay the ticket.
It is called 'blocking the box' here, and is illegal.

I know some areas use traffic enforcement to raise revenue, but I've never gotten a ticket I wasn't guilty of.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by defcon5

 

but I've never gotten a ticket I wasn't guilty of.

I would wager most on ATS haven't either.

They just don't like the fact they got caught.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by chiron613

 

There are no victimless crimes when it comes to illegal drug use. Someone always gets hurt- whether it be the family torn apart by drug use, or the victims of robberies, from addicts who need money to get their fix. Besides, it is nearly impossible to get caught doing drugs if one does them in the privacy of their own homes, and does not sell them.

This is hogwash!

Can you say the same of legal drugs? If not, why so?!

It seems to me more victims are created by the legal drugs than illegal.

Everyone use drugs for various reasons and many are not creating victims on any front.

reply to post by stevegmu


Let me see if I can further explain this to you...
The state is run by the Governor, and the Motor Vehicle Code is laws set in State Statute, at a State Level so its uniform across the entire State. Ordinances are silly town level things, like “You can be arrested for eating peanuts in church on Sunday”. Ordinances are very seldom enforced, don't usually carry much weight, and very few people know what they are. Now here is the official stance on the topic of Red Light Cameras by the State Governor:

In Orange County, Florida commissioners rejected a plan to ticket motorists with red light cameras after the county attorney declared that such tickets were illegal, following a 2005 ruling from then Attorney General (now Governor) Charlie Crist. Crist explained that a local red light camera ordinance violates Section 316.007 of Florida statutes (view ruling). Despite the law forbidding them from doing so, Apopka and Orlando are proceeding with their own ticketing programs. Orange County will still install cameras, but they will not issue citations.

So in installing these cameras, the local government here is actually breaking FLORIDA STATE LAW...

Now they put them in by passing an ordnance at the persuading of the third party company who owns and operates the cameras on the towns behalf. This company makes money by generating as many tickets as possible, whether they are valid or not. There is nowhere to go fight these tickets, and they run about $200 per hit. Of course they do not asses any points to your license because they are not traffic citations, they are city ordinances. In order to asses points to your license you have to have actually violated the State Motor Vehicle Code.

You get it yet?
Its all about making money, period...

reply to post by unityemissions


People generally don't steal too get legal drugs. They get prescriptions. There are no drug mules concerning the pharmaceutical industry, either.

reply to post by defcon5



Not much you can do except move, get the laws changed, or not run red lights, or block the box. From my brief experiences in Florida, they still operate on the good 'ol buy system in some areas.

Originally posted by stevegmu

China just kills their criminals en-masse, and Europeans don't seem to believe in enforcing laws or sentences. Most of S. America is run by criminals, so they don't lock each other up. Most of Africa is pretty much lawless. I imagine Russia has similar numbers to the US.

It is actually hard to get locked up in the US. Most people are given fines and probation, time and time again- unless they commit major felonies.

I expect this is a valid analysis.

Still the U.S. is suppossed to be the free-est country on earth. (I don't actually believe that it is) It is ironic that we lead the world in the number of people that we lock up. As you said most people get numerous chances before being locked up. So that actually means that there are about 3 to 4 times as many criminals running around as are currently in jail or about 3.5% of the population.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by jd140
I would wager most on ATS haven't either.
They just don't like the fact they got caught.

If you are implying me, then I have news for you. I have been driving for more then 20 years, and I have only received 3 tickets in that time. Each time was for speeding, and I was in fact speeding, I have no issue with that. Now when I am driving correctly, and in a safe manner, and some third party company is taking pictures of my car making a legal stop and turn, just to generate revenue for themselves and my city, I have a REAL issue with that. Especially when they are in fact the ones breaking State Law in doing so.

It just so happens that in this same city, they have the main road set here with alternating 35-45 MPH signs as well. I found out from a State DOT engineer, that they have been told they cannot do that on that road, and it does not comply with the federal guidelines that apply for that road, but again the town needs it for use as a speed trap.

I follow the speeds, and now that I know about the light camera, I try and comply with that, though I sometimes forget about it if I am thinking about other stuff at the time. However, this stuff is purposely set up here to make it very difficult to go through the area and not be a target to get ticketed for something or other. Its not about making the roads safer, as they are actually making them more dangerous with this obstacle course, its about fining as many people as they possibly can for having the audacity to use their road. I would prefer that they would remove this other crap and just put in a toll booth.

reply to post by stevegmu


The map is quoting prison population per 100,000 if you're looking at per 100.000 that's a big difference to me.

Many people are terrified to file if they don't have the money to pay, so they don't. Then they're arrested for failure to file. Still boils down to the fact that they didn't have the money to pay. The government just put nicer label on their crime.

But there are people who are afraid to file, because they owe and can’t pay.

www.moneytalksnews.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Link

Approximately one in five felony convictions are for white collar types of felony offenses. White collar types of felony crimes can include: kickbacks, tax evasion, insider trading, bribery, embezzlement, identity theft, antitrust, and at least a dozen forms of fraud. Other types of felony offenses which are typically non-violent in nature and intent are property crimes like burglary, larceny (theft of a motor vehicle), fraud, and forgery. About two thirds of all convictions for property types of felony crimes result in incarceration. Drug offenses are also typically non-violent in nature and intent, such as types of felony crimes for drug possession or trafficking. Over ninety percent of persons convicted of drug related types of felony offenses will face incarceration.

www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com...

Crimes against property, and many forms of victimless crime such as prostitution, gambling and drug abuse all tend to be classified as blue-collar crime. And before jd140 churps in with "there are no victimless crimes", I didn't make up the word, you're government did.

There, I cited many white and blue collar crimes that poor and middle class people go to jail for. The rich pay their way out. I won't bother citing my source there.

As for child support _=-> HIL'___'ALE - An Illinois man being held in the Hillsdale County Jail apparently hanged himself in his jail cell Monday soon after his arraignment for a felony child-support charge. According to Hillsdale County District Court, he was charged with failure to pay child support and could have been sentenced to four years in prison and fined $2,000. The amount he owed was $5,333.75.

Link

It's also a felony to have a few beers and play poker with your friends for cash and then hand the "house" some money for beer. But then that would only be of interest to people who have friends.

"I know enough of the laws, and have enough common sense not to get caught speeding, running lights or blowing stop signs."

.

You may appreciate the government intrusion into your life with all of the fee's, fines, and taxes but I doubt the "average" American does since most of them commit three felony's daily.

Link

reply to post by In nothing we trust


There is no such thing as absolute freedom, lest we'd be living in anarchy. For society to work, there have to be rules.
I don't remember the exact figure, but I believe the average person commits a misdemeanor 28 times before being caught.

Originally posted by stevegmu
not run red lights, or block the box.

You don't even have to be blocking the box, or actually even be over the crosswalk. They have a tripwire somewhere under the white line that is several feet in front of the crosswalk. If your tire goes 1/100 of an inch past this line, which you of course cannot see from the drivers seat, you are in violation. Of course they don't tell you where this line exactly is, nor do they call it a “Blocking the Box” camera, its supposed to be a “Red Light Camera” remember? They are tricking folks who are ignorant of their rule into having to pay a fine that they really do not deserve. Anyway, its really a moot point, they are in fact breaking the law themselves to generate money. I have shown you the ruling that says exactly that.

Originally posted by stevegmu

There is no such thing as absolute freedom, lest we'd be living in anarchy. For society to work, there have to be rules.

Very true.

If everyone was nice to each other there would be no issues.

Unfortunatly we now find ourselves in a situation where everyone is assumed to be guilty or potentially guilty of something.

This leads to conformity, subservience and slavery.

Everyone is a lawbreaker.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by Sundancer


Tell that to B. Madoff. He's in jail, no? People should go to jail for the crimes you listed. If they were better criminals, they could afford good lawyers and get off.
Crimes against property are victimless? I take it you don't own anything nice.

You said deadbeats get locked up for missing a payment. unless he was wealthy, he missed quite a few payments. I'm sure they also don't charge 1st time offenders with felonies.

How would someone gat caught in the scenario you posed?

I don't believe that at all.

Did anyone read the article that Sundancer Linked above:

“Three Felonies a Day,” referring to the number of crimes he estimates the average American now unwittingly commits because of vague laws. New technology adds its own complexity, making innocent activity potentially criminal.
Mr. Silverglate describes several cases in which prosecutors didn’t understand or didn’t want to understand technology. This problem is compounded by a trend that has accelerated since the 1980s for prosecutors to abandon the principle that there can’t be a crime without criminal intent.


Anyone who has taken a law class knows that intent or criminal neglect/recklessness is one of the three conditions for determining if a crime has been committed.

There you have it, they are making vague laws, and arresting/prosecuting people with no intent because it is a lucrative financial situation for them. The two stealth ways that our government taxes us: through Inflation, and through the Judicial System.

Both of these trends are getting worse and worse by the day.

Originally posted by defcon5

There you have it, they are making vague laws, and arresting/prosecuting people with no intent because it is a lucrative financial situation for them. The two stealth ways that our government taxes us: through Inflation, and through the Judicial System.

Both of these trends are getting worse and worse by the day.

I think it is worse than that.

The entire population is becomming imprisoned within thier own minds. Nobody is capable of thinking for themselves.

This is more dangerous than you can ever imagine becuase entire groups of people can be manipulated to do anything thier masters want them to do.

reply to post by In nothing we trust


Well here in the state of Florida the institutional system is run like a business. I have a few family members and friends who have either worked or are still employed by correctional institutions and law enforcement departments. they've told me that they do in fact have silent quotas on them to write tickets, arrest people and find new charges to hold against detainees. The state of Florida receives 55k a year per inmate from the federal govt. for inmate living costs, and the county jails charges almost a grand per day to the state per jailed individual. It's just a big money making machine down here. It's really sad, officers are pressured to arrest and or write tickets. So instead of genuinely protecting us from true crimes and criminals officers are used as money generating monkeys, we have a huge issue with sex offenders down here. But hey since there's no money in saving someone from getting raped the dam state can't bust rapist. nope they'll just write you a ticket instead.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by funkeemunkee84]

reply to post by stevegmu


You're statement is incorrect. I never said a payment, I said offence (first time charged for it.) Did you not know the difference?

I take it you don't own anything nice.

Sure, if that makes ya feel better about yourself, I'll go with that.

Originally posted by funkeemunkee84
reply to post by In nothing we trust

 

Well here in the state of Florida the institutional system is run like a business. I have a few family members and friends who have either worked or are still employed by correctional institutions and law enforcement departments. they've told me that they do in fact have silent quotas on them to write tickets, arrest people and find new charges to hold against detainees. The state of Florida receives 55k a year per inmate from the federal govt. for inmate living costs, and the county jails charges almost a grand per day to the state per jailed individual. It's just a big money making machine down here. It's really sad, officers are pressured to arrest and or write tickets.

They have production quotas here in Arizona as well.

THey have all the highways here under surveillance 24/7.

People get wise to the camera locations so to catch people off guard, the private company that gets 50% of the take from traffic fines moves the cameras around all the time. The speed limit signs (75 - 65 - 55 - 65 - 55, etc) seem to change constantly. And the local rah rah media gets in on the act and persecutes lawbreakers (non-believers) by posting thier pictures on the front page of the paper and on the nightly news.

So basically what is happening is a group of private entities are conspiring against thier fellow citizens to manipulate the laws and government to make money.

It's mafia like behavior.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by unityemissions

 

People generally don't steal too get legal drugs. They get prescriptions. There are no drug mules concerning the pharmaceutical industry, either.

lololol, where do you get your info buddy?

Drug LAWS ruin lives, not drugs. Jimmy Carter, former president of the united states once said that drug laws should not be more damaging to the individual, then the drug itself.

Think about that, it makes sense right? At face value AND when digging deeper. If the law is there to PROTECT you AGAINST the drug, then doing more damage to you then the drug itself does is completely idiotic, and ridiculous, but that's how we do things around here in the good ol' US of A.

With drug laws and prostitution laws, the government is telling you that it owns your body, and your paycheck, and can tell you what to do with them. Hell, they can even wiretap your phone without a warrant, search your home without you knowing (called sneak and peak), and they can even build a road over your home if they feel like it. They can even demonlish your home to give the land to Walmart. It's been done before, and the supreme court ruled it legal. It's called eminent domain.

Think about that before you spew propaganda from the government, think about what they are doing.

Illegal drugs tear up communities?
Our first FOUR presidents all grew marijuana. That's a felony today. These people led our country's inception, and created this nation. So if what you are saying is true, our country is based on the ideas of some whackjob druggies. So either way, you are being screwed by your government.

Caffeine kills more people than marijuana. That's a legal drug. Alcohol kills way more people than ALL illegal drugs COMBINED. Alcohol causes WAY more damage to families and communities, and WAY more crime. Ever heard of a stoner abusing his girlfriend? What about a (LEGALLY) drinking alcoholic?

Think before you speak man! By god, not everything that is illegal is bad. There is a difference between what is illegal and legal and what is right and wrong. If it was illegal to NOT kill your first born child, how many mothers do you think would be criminals? Does that make them bad people?

The declaration of independence was written on paper grown from MARIJUANA FIBER.

THINK!
THINK!
THINK, think for yourself! And for our future.