Healthy young adult 'invincibles' may face healthcare mandate, page 2

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reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 05:58 PM by memarf1

reply to post by getreadyalready

While I agree with your point, I would like to point out that you may not have been a burden on the taxpayers, but you were a burden on the other members within your insurance companies. Their rates were inevitably affected by your health problems. Maybe burdening the taxpayers would have spread the $2million a bit more thinly and would have affected everyone less. Perhaps?

That said, I hope we both stay young and invincible forever, and I am glad you were covered. Also, I do hope something passes that is useful, but I hope it's not the 10% thing they are discussing now, that is more expensive than the insurance that I had with BCBS before.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 06:06 PM by Zosynspiracy

It's not just about young people it's about HEALTHY RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE! There are plenty of 30, 40, and 50 year olds who never go to the doctor and have never been hospitalized. I'm 30 years old and my wife and I pay several hundred dollars a month for health insurance through our employer. I go to the doctor once a year and that's it. Why the hell should I be paying the same premiums as some fat, overweight, lazy, unhealthy coworker who smokes?

We both make the effort to eat healthy, exercise and make good decisions, RESPONSIBLE decisions. Problem is there are too many stupid, lazy, irresponsible Americans in this day and age who don't take care of themselves. So the government wants to subsidize all these bad decisions and those who are healthy will pay for those bad decisions of the unhealthy. In any civilized society there will always be a safety net for kids born with genetic disorders or unlucky individuals or even people who are poor and can't afford insurance. The problem with healthcare is there are NO OTHER OPTIONS. FREEDOM is about CHOICE! If you don't want to purchase auto insurance well you don't drive. You can take public transportation or ride your bike. There should be a public option but it should be basic and not mandatory kind of like public transportation.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 06:11 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

reply to post by Zosynspiracy

Exactly at least with AllState's Auto insurance your premium goes down every year you aren't in an accident.

Yet with Health Insurance there is no incentive when you aren't ever sick.

The sad reality is chances are on the rare occassion you do get sick you will still end up paying out of your pocket for it because of the deductibles!

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 06:31 PM by lpowell0627

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

This is also why our health records have to be posted online now. That passed months ago -- July I think -- in anticipation of health reform being passed. It was all under the guise of saving money by saving paperwork -- but it doesn't really save money unless all of the information goes to only one source. I knew then we were in trouble.

The ramifications of this bill are astounding. The government will be able to control everything via healthcare. It will be siphoned right out of our paychecks -- just like social security, medicare, etc.

No paycheck? No problem. I guarantee you within two years you will have to provide proof of health insurance in order to file tax returns, get a mortgage, register a car -- anything and everything that you want to do that could possibly affect your health. Car accident a possibility? Want to register your vehicle? Show proof of auto insurance AND health insurance, please. Further, that will probably be the gov't's next foray -- bundled packages that include auto, life, and health insurance.

Think I'm going overboard? No way. They need the fines and fees associated with not going with the program in order to cover the social security deficit we have right now.

This is exactly the problem with creating legislation that costs $829B when there is no money in existance to pay for it.

This is once again all one big tower of debt that the taxpayer is once again responsible to pick up the tab. Unfortunately, on top of that, we have a President with an unlimited platinum card.

The absolute worst part of all of this in my opinion is that economists have already said that if government-run healthcare doesn't work -- it will cost more than twice the $829B to go back and fix it again.

And let's not forget the most important part to all of this:

Only 97% of Americans will be provided with healthcare from this bill.

Just wait until we get the costs associated with insuring the remaining 3%.

This is just the start folks.....it hasn't even been 25% of his term yet.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 06:44 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

reply to post by lpowell0627

I am one step ahead of the Government and its new plans. I sold my car and drive a bicycle. I work for myself at home. I am so off the grid the only thing that hooks me into the grid is the communications network, the Internet and Cell Phones and even there I take steps to avoid being ‘locked’ on to.

I don’t know how long I will be able to hold out eventually but I am taking every step I can to stockpile everything I can for a long haul of being cut off from the system whether it’s Swine Flu, Managed Health Care, Codex, or a Banking Holiday, I am pretty well set and constantly working on strengthening my position.

I am counting though on the American spirit waking up and kicking into play at some point. If it doesn’t, well I will do my best to find a deserted island somewhere and live out my life on my own terms. If it does…Happy Days will be here again!

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 06:56 PM by Zosynspiracy

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Haha good for you bro! You must be single!

If I tried living like that my wife would look at me like I was from another planet. I love her to death but I wish she was waking up along side me.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 07:14 PM by marg6043

Noe only mandate that they get health care but now private insurance wants to also penalized those that do not get health care in timely manner after the health care reform is passed.

But with the warning on the raising cost of health care by the private insurance on consumers things are not looking good for the voting on Tuesday.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 07:15 PM by idle_rocker

Heh, I guess my first question would be what is a timely manner? Tomorrow?

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 07:17 PM by marg6043

reply to post by idle_rocker

I am still wondering on that one after reading the news on the Dems scrambling after the health insurance warnings.

[edit on 12-10-2009 by marg6043]

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 07:28 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Haha good for you bro! You must be single! If I tried living like that my wife would look at me like I was from another planet. I love her to death but I wish she was waking up along side me.

Yes my friend, I am single and unwilling to mingle! No offence meant to anyone but one of the ways the Powers that Be have so emasculated the nation is by placing so much responsibility on women, and basically creating equal partnerships between men and women that typically lack direction. I was out having dinner at a sidewalk café this past Friday night and watched a 20 something young woman lead a 20 something year old man in and out of every restaurant on the 4 block commercial strip with her turning her nose up at everything to eat everywhere including the original place she asked him to take her. I could tell by the exasperated and frustrate look and tone the young man had by the second time they check out and then walked out of where I was eating he was starving and desperate to eat, but he was more desperate to please her and the reality is she enjoyed being in charge and being able to lead him even though she had no particular plan or place to lead him too.

Government by committee just doesn’t work. Personally I would have told her at the very first place the one she dragged him out of the house in the first place saying she want to eat at, sorry we are eating here, you said you wanted to, so we are whether you want to or not like it or not. That’s me though, and probably why I am single. Single and serious about facing the challenges of the future knowing that it’s suicide to hookup with someone who isn’t mentally and intellectually prepared to deal with those challenges too.

Men aren’t really allowed to be men anymore, and that’s a huge part of the problem facing the nation. Politically correct really is just a nice way of saying Police State.

Universal Health Care is just another way the police state gains control over the people living in it.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 07:33 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by marg6043
Noe only mandate that they get health care but now private insurance wants to also penalized those that do not get health care in timely manner after the health care reform is passed.

But with the warning on the raising cost of health care by the private insurance on consumers things are not looking good for the voting on Tuesday.

The whole timing of the Health Care issue makes it awful suspect. The media hype surrounding it, they prep that’s gone into it, the vague way it’s been presented up to now all bode ill tidings in my book.

They wanted to mentally prepare us for there being a health bill but didn’t want us to have any idea what would be in it by presenting so many competing bills and simply turning those opposed to any Health Care Bill as some kind of radical, demented and dangerous politically motivated fringe element.

The spectacle and circus of the dog and pony show is reaching unbelievable heights and yet people the majority of people still blindly trust in the government as being some virtuous entity that means well.

It really is amazing.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 07:38 PM by NoJoker13

Health insurance has been mandatory in massachusetts for 2 years now. If you don't have it you give up your tax income, what a world.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 07:51 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Health insurance has been mandatory in massachusetts for 2 years now. If you don't have it you give up your tax income, what a world.

It is just such an un-American principal to force people to buy insurance and in part it is what makes medicine so unafordable because if it was afordable there would be no need for insurance to make big money pay outs often for services that big money is charged for but almost no money is put in to.

I pay on average 50% to 65% less for almost every medical service I do get because I pay cash on the spot for it.

Whether it's an MRI, X-rays, or a family doctor, specialist or chiropractor they all give huge price breaks to those who pay in cash. Most doctors in private practice usually need at least one if not two full time employees just to file the insurance claims and deal with getting as much of the full bill from them and then trying to get what the insurance company won't pay out of the patient when the insurance company won't pay it all.

It costs them a lot of time and money and part of that is added to all their services. They know often that people aren't going to question or bargain on their rates for services because they aren't paying themselves the insurance companies are.

Insurance has created a health care racket that basically makes afordable health care impossible even though in reality besides education and research the costs of providing health care to most people as far as the actual dollars being spent on the equipment and personnel and the time involved are minimal.

Government wants to take over healthcare not to save the citizens money or give them better care but to take over that huge lucrative racket the same way it turned the military industrial complex into a huge controlled racket for profit after World War II.

Absolutely hysterical when you think we destroyed almost every armement in place where it was last used in World War II rather than bring them home, but kept all those companies up and running at the tax payers expense building more and newer versions constantly.

The sad truth is we have to literally have a war now and then just to justify sticking the huge cost of it to the taxpayer.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 08:15 PM by AlternateEnding

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Men aren’t really allowed to be men anymore, and that’s a huge part of the problem facing the nation. Politically correct really is just a nice way of saying Police State.

Wow! Just Wow!

Never were truer words spoken!

I do have the girlfriend but I am still the man of my house. More men
need to stand up and just be!
I don't always agree with your points but this hits right between the eyes!

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 08:21 PM by AlternateEnding

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The scary part of health insurance is that the executives running
the show, make huge bonuses on denying coverage for needed
care. That is what you pay for!

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 08:31 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by AlternateEnding
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The scary part of health insurance is that the executives running
the show, make huge bonuses on denying coverage for needed
care. That is what you pay for!

That is very true! They are always looking for the 'legal' yet heartless way out because it's a for profit business. Health Care itself is a for profit business. Government putting it's hand in the cookie jar is just going to make it all the more expensive as one more cookie is needed now for the gang!

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 10:05 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by idle_rocker
Heh, I guess my first question would be what is a timely manner? Tomorrow?

It will be interesting to see what comes out in regards to the Health Care Bills when they come up for some votes tomorrow.

I sure hope there is a way off this ride!

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 10:14 PM by chiron613

Everyone in this country pays for something they don't or can't use. I pay for our missiles and bombs. I pay for roads I don't use. I pay for art that I think is crap. I pay to help flood victims rebuild their homes in the same flood plain that destroyed their last home. I pay for parks and other recreations I cannot get to. And so on. That's part of what happens in a democracy (or an "almost" democracy).

With any type of health insurance, the well pay for the sick. Period. Good drivers pay for bad drivers. Honest people pay for the losses caused by thieves.

Younger people are not invincible. Many times they get vinced (they meet a guy named "Vince", and bad things happen). They generally avoid serious illnesses, true. However, they are more prone to serious accidents, since they are more athletic, more active, and often likely to take risks that older folks won't. As the saying goes, there are careless bikers, and there are old bikers, but there are no old, careless bikers.

When an uninsured person sustains an accident, he usually can't pay all his medical bills. What happens is he gets treated at the ER, and the hospital eats it. But then the hospital passes the costs along to everyone else.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 10:24 PM by stevegmu

I currently have catastrophic insurance. I am healthy- never get sick, or take any prescriptions. My rates are $120/month, with a deductible of $15000. I pay a total of $440/year out of pocket for 2 dental cleanings. $550 is a lot cheaper than $1440. With the new 'reform', I and many like myself will simply drop our plans, and pay the $550 fine. Should something come up, I'll simply buy insurance at a good rate- after all, this 'reform' will lower the prices, and I would not be charged more for having a pre-existing condition, or denied coverage. Of course this will drive everyone else's rates up and drive some insurance companies out of business.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 10:44 PM by ProtoplasmicTraveler

reply to post by chiron613

Actually it’s true that the young are often accident prone in part because they think life is a video game with a reset button.

Here in Miami the uninsured are treated at the same hospital that some people travel from around the world to seek treatment at and some of the world’s best physicians work at.

Jackson Memorial Hospital is the city/county Public Health Trust. That Trust involves a large sum of money charitably donated that the earnings of help pay for medical care for the poor and the indigent. The University of Miami one of the nation’s premier medical schools also picks up a significant portion of the Hospital’s operating budget as the rich and poor alike are treated to tours of medical students traipsing through their rooms peering at their charts and nodding sagely and giving each other inquisitive looks while the teaching and attending physician cures or treats what ails a person. Rich people of a philanthropic nature pay for many of the unpaid medical expenses of the poor. At least they did until Obama cut that as a tax break to the rich. Another clear sign the government wants to muscle in on the territory. A portion is picked up by the County and a portion picked up the state. If you have been shot up or cracked up or banged up you are going to have some of the finest doctors in the world piece you back together again. If you have terminal cancer that might be cured by a cutting edge operation though you are going to die, you will die comfortably and humanely but you will be allowed to die. It’s that simple you get what you pay for in this life.

That the public is somehow being penalized for the uninsured is a misnomer. Taxes have gone up to pay for the military industrial complex to the tune of trillions of dollars a year but they have never been raised a dime to pay for the care of the sick. Jackson Memorial has never failed to meet its payroll. It likewise has ever had a piece of leased or financed equipment repossessed. No one at Jackson Memorial has ever been laid off because business is bad or the poor can’t afford to pay the bill.

This myth that good responsible people are being forced to pay for bad irresponsible people and therefore everyone should happily pay in order to happily wear the good and responsible star on their forehead is a myth. A myth designed to separate fools from their money!

The reality is that less than 1% of the world’s population hordes over 90% of the world’s wealth. Very and I mean very few people are poor because of laziness or lack of a desire to work or contribute to their own keep. In most cases they are poor because of the laziness and lack of desire to create a better world full of more opportunities for everyone by the less than 1% that control 90% of the world’s wealth and resources.

Rather than those very rich less than 1% pay themselves for in essence denying people opportunities out of selfishness and greed, or to provide more opportunities utilizing the resources that they do tie up and horde they convince the average person to not just accept that it’s their responsibility but to convince other average people it’s their responsibility too to give up a percentage based portion of their income that if the very rich and powerful 1% gave up that exact same portion their would be no poverty, no unemployment and no hunger in the world.

The rich literally convince the poor, that the other poor are their responsibility and not the rich’s responsibility.

The rich prefer to be responsible for nothing, even when their banks go in the red, it is the poor that are force by the government to put them in the black.

Even when their oil companies are raking in huge profits to the point it is causing the poor to default on their loans to their very same banks it is the poor that they convince should make the economic sacrifice to make this faulty system work.

They have you brainwashed, brainwashed with words like good and responsible and in reality the people who most insist you and I be good and responsible are anything but.

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