CIA Intel Analyst Who Briefed President: Iran Threat All Hype, page 3

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reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:27 AM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Silver Shadow

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Chevalerous

A very cute, very fluffy, warm and fuzzy post. For all that, and for all the verbiage set forth in it, not ONCE, not in ONE SINGLE PLACE, was there a solid reference to any law that had been broken, which would make the wars "illegal".

Quite simple really.

International law is quite clear about that.

You can defend yourself if attacked.
You can appeal to the UN for help, and if all nations agree on a police action, the UN as a whole responds.

Americans hate law and justice.
Americans hate the Geneva convention
Americans hate the UN
Americans hate the International Court.

But Americans love war, death and deadly force.

When you own vicious Government turns upon you, nothing will save you.

You must not be American, because I don't think you hate law and justice.

I think you ignore it in favor of a personal, perhaps personally moral, determination of legal and illegal.

I say that in all certainty because as many times as I've asked for the statues that were violated to make these wars "illegal", no one has been able to come up with one.

Not a single one.

What I see is a lot of accusations thrown out, with nothing to back them up.

as far as your final line, meant to "scare" me goes, when my own "vicious government turns" on me, whether anything will save me or not remains to be seen. For your edification and approval, though, should that event transpire, I have no plans on living all the way through it anyhow.

[edit on 2009/11/1 by nenothtu]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:30 AM by jam321

reply to post by Chevalerous

a special comment by the UN regarding this since USA violated and breached one of the corner stones of the UN charter - invasion of a soverign country without the support of the rest of the world community in a second resolution!

My friend,

I do not seek a special comment. I expect to see a resolution. Something similar to the one issued when Iraq invaded Kuwait. And they did have support from some members of the UN.

Why so much criticism for the US going in, yet you have very little to say about the organizations that were created to uphold international laws?

Why do you think Americans don't care about international law and go by what our Congress passes?

We have seen that those organizations are all talk and no action. Maybe I am assuming and forgive me if I am, but you guys seem to see these organizations as life savers.

How many wars have the UN stopped? How many wars have the UN prevented? How many countries has the IAEA stopped from making nukes? How many genocides have been stopped?

IMO, these organizations are nothing more than international bureaucracies. Bureaucracies that only believe in their own agenda not that of the world as a whole.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:31 AM by dooper

reply to post by Silver Shadow

Your first four sentences were really, really good.

We Americans like peace as much as anyone. But we're not going to tolerate a lot of crap from the lawless either.

When it goes down, yes, there will be one hell of a mess for a while. But we'll get it sorted out. If you are familiar with a Bell Curve, you can picture about 10%-15% of our population who are lawless, non-productive, and the source of about 95% of our violent crime.

That's what will be dealt with first.

So don't worry about us, we're armed, we have millions of Combat-Tested Battle veterans, and things will be handled.

But we will not go off killing the hell out of each other. Just won't happen.

We do have a bit of housecleaning to do though. And we know how to get it done.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:39 AM by Silver Shadow

Jam321,

There was no UN resolution against America, simply because none was ever possible.

Even if all other nations were determined to pass such a resolution, the US has the power to veto it.

So you are asking for the impossible.

But please note, that your illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq has not been at all successful.
The Iraqi people, backed by unlimited resources are still fighting the US military occupation, and quite effectively too.

You might think the US is quite right, but the entire world disagrees with you.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:42 AM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
No you never cave in.

Never back down.

Never compromise.

Never surrender.

That is why, when American starts killing American in the coming anarchy, it will never end.

HAS to end sometime. Last man standing, and all that.

Some of you think that when you have killed all the bad guys, all Americans will give up their guns and agree to live in peace and total trust with each other.
That will never happen.

You may have that right. The very first SOB that tries to get me to give up my gun, ESPECIALLY after such an event, would be the very first casualty of the NEXT war.

You seem to think Americans have some sort of utopia complex. Taint so, bro.

Can't you see, your love of violence, viciousness, and deadly force is going to destroy you all ?

Nope, can't see that at all. Might destroy a sizeable proportion, myself included, but not ALL. I'll damn well defend, regardless of my own demise, which is not even a blip on the universe's radar.

Do you really believe that death and destruction of other Americans is going to somehow return your country to wealth , prosperity and power ?

Can't rightly say I care much about that. It either will result in that, or the complete and total destruction of the U.S. I'm with Vercingetorix on that. If it won't do my side any good, no point in leaving it standing for the opposition to make use of.

Vercingetorix wasn't an American, was he?

[edit on 2009/11/1 by nenothtu]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:42 AM by Silver Shadow

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Silver Shadow

Your first four sentences were really, really good.

When it goes down, yes, there will be one hell of a mess for a while. But we'll get it sorted out.

Sort it out ?

Tell me, what would have to happen for Americans to give up their guns and live in peace with each other ?

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:47 AM by jam321

reply to post by Silver Shadow

Tell me, what would have to happen for Americans to give up their guns and live in peace with each other ?

Live in peace we can. There will always be bumps in the road.

We are never giving up the guns. At least many of us aren't.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:51 AM by Silver Shadow

To succeed in anything, game, business, warfare, you need a plan, an objective.

All I hear is Americans saying they are going to keep on killing other Americans as long as they are able to do so.

Your enemies are laughing their asses off at that.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:53 AM by jam321

reply to post by Silver Shadow

There was no UN resolution against America, simply because none was ever possible.

Even if all other nations were determined to pass such a resolution, the US has the power to veto it.

So you are asking for the impossible.

Good point Silver. Star for that. But it is the point that counts. If they really believed in what they say, they would have tried to pass a resolution.

Seems kinda odd that the UN never hesitates to try to pass a resolution condemning Israel know darn well the US would veto it.

But please note, that your illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq has not been at all successful.
The Iraqi people, backed by unlimited resources are still fighting the US military occupation, and quite effectively too.

You might think the US is quite right, but the entire world disagrees with you.

It hasn't been that successful. You are correct. But not all are fighting against us. Count up the Iraqi population, the ammo we have/they have, and the death count and you will see that it would equate to one big blood bath.

It isn't happening. Most of the action is taking place between Iraqi vs Iraqi.

It is ok if the world disagrees with us. We don't sweat it. But lucky for us, some do agree and fighting right alongside us.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:54 AM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Silver Shadow

Tell me, what would have to happen for Americans to give up their guns and live in peace with each other ?

At first glance, I though that quote to be quaint and amusing, but mutually exclusive.

Upon deeper reflection, I discovered it was not. When one gives up his entire means of defense, he CAN achieve a sort of "peace" - the peace of a slave. I.E., exactly the amount of peace his master determines to allow.

I'm not after anything of that sort.

Peace is to be cherished, and striven for, but not at the price of begging for it on your knees. That strips one of everything worth living for in the first place.

I'll not have it, I'll not accept it. It has no value whatsoever.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:55 AM by jam321

reply to post by Silver Shadow

All I hear is Americans saying they are going to keep on killing other Americans as long as they are able to do so.

Dude, where are you hearing this stuff from?

You talking about race, gangs, or what?

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:58 AM by Common Good

reply to post by Silver Shadow

What makes you think that we CANNOT live in peace with guns?
If you ask me, guns KEEP us safe.
Its not the "guns" America worries about, its the psychos.
When psychos are running around, we like to have a little comfort in knowing that IF something came our way, we would at least have a chance to defend our Peaceful world.

America doesnt want to control the world, we really dont, but until someone else steps up to the plate to help fight these pyschos, then we are going to have to continue on the path we are going for OUR OWN security. We would LOVE it, if we got the backing that we needed 95% of the time, but we dont, because of all the "red tape", and the "I just want to stay out of it" mentality. Why is it that WE have to fight for the nations that cant? Because we are America, and thats how we roll.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:02 AM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
To succeed in anything, game, business, warfare, you need a plan, an objective.

All I hear is Americans saying they are going to keep on killing other Americans as long as they are able to do so.

Your enemies are laughing their asses off at that.

If that's all you hear, you haven't been listening closely enough. Admittedly, nowadays that probably IS all you hear, since most of us have long since grown bored with the sort of mindset you put forth, and have determined to tell you what we think you want to hear, since you refuse to hear what's already been said.

I'm pretty sure there IS a plan, AND an objective.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:06 AM by Chevalerous

Originally posted by nenothtu

I'm pretty sure there IS a plan, AND an objective.

Ya! The Project for the New American Century (PNAC)
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:16 AM by Silver Shadow

Plan for Global leadership ?

There you go, not plan to get along with other nations peacefully, but LEADERSHIP, presumably by force.

I wish you luck in leading the world after you have had your revolution.

America will be lucky to survive at all as a nation once the shooting starts.

[edit on 1/11/2009 by Silver Shadow]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:23 AM by Common Good

reply to post by Silver Shadow

It always does end badly for America, and the reason for that is because America is in the game, and they arent. Simple as that. We have come accustomed to getting flamed on by other nations that can barely afford to give their countrymen their basic needs, but its something that we deal with. Its not always the popular thing to be the guy with the cape on.

Trust me, and many others, we are just as scared as a lot of other nations but its just something you have to accept, you cant change other peoples outlooks, even if you changed 20 mens opinions in a positive way, you are always going to have 13 saying the opposite. If it was up to me, I would bring all of our troops home, and stay here, but at this point in time in history, I really dont see that happening, too many people are dependant on us(and other nations for that matter) for help. Its a catch 22 everywhere we go. Something a nation like America has to deal with.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:37 AM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Chevalerous

Originally posted by nenothtu

I'm pretty sure there IS a plan, AND an objective.

Ya! The Project for the New American Century (PNAC)
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Chevalerous]

That relates to his accusations of Civil war in the US and bloodshed in the streets exactly how? I'm sure you THINK that the rest of the world figures in to every decision an American makes, but it just ain't so. What the Shadow insinuates, a civil war in the US, has nary a thing to do with any sort of "Global leadership".

Sometimes internal bickering is just, well, INTERNAL. Don't worry, we're not setting out sights on you next. You can safely go to sleep.

It really ain't about the rest of the world. Some of us have a notion that you folks ought to be able to look out for yourselves.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:37 AM by Silver Shadow

reply to post by Common Good

I agree with you Common Good.

America would do far better to concentrate on the economy, border security, and cleaning up the US political and justice systems.

But sadly, a great many Americans still see world domination and plunder by deadly force of the rest of mankind, as some God given right.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:43 AM by Common Good

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
reply to post by Common Good

I agree with you Common Good.

America would do far better to concentrate on the economy, border security, and cleaning up the US political and justice systems.

But sadly, a great many Americans still see world domination and plunder by deadly force of the rest of mankind, as some God given right.

As far as your last paragraph, I dont see that. In all honesty, thats not the America I know or live, nor do I know people who have that mindset.
We DONT want to dominate the world, we just want to live it just like everyone else. I dont get all hard thinking about killing a large group of people, that is unless that group(as a whole) tried to attack what is mine.

Other than that, America is about "you do what you do, I do what I do, and we will do it quietly without bothering one another as long as nobody gets hurt". Its that simple for us, but there are many around the world that dont see it that way, and that is why there is, and always will be a constant struggle to maintain dominance.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Common Good]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 01:43 AM by nenothtu

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
Plan for Global leadership ?

There you go, not plan to get along with other nations peacefully, but LEADERSHIP, presumably by force.

I wish you luck in leading the world after you have had your revolution.

America will be lucky to survive at all as a nation once the shooting starts.

[edit on 1/11/2009 by Silver Shadow]