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The New Obama American Flag?

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posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 12:29 PM
I had a thought for a flag, one that would alter it, but be respectful of the past. Instead of stars, putting the face of the Presidents in order on it to represent and honor those who served in office, instead of having one large face in the blue portion. I think that would be a bit more tasteful and much more acceptible than putting the face of one President there, as well as, keeping with the times.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 12:54 PM
reply to post by mikerussellus

My thoughts exactly. The idea that a flag is just a piece of cloth is absurd. Look at the history of flags in relation to their use and symbolism. A national flag was traditionally carried into battle to serve as a guide in the fog of war to lead troops into battle. That flag waving was often the last thing many soldiers saw before they met their fate in battle. The flag, symbolically, serves to guide the people toward victory. One common flag, unaltered, serves to unite the troops.

The same can and should be said for the Stars and Stripes. It has been officially adopted under law to represent all the history that we have died for. By allowing the flag to be altered, you are showing a divided nation. It is a sign of the degradation of our patriotic spirit. And what is the quickest way to defeat a nation? To divide the people.

By supporting this flag, you are supporting a divided nation. We should all be able to see where that road goes. To those that say "Freedom of speech?" Of course we are entitled to that. As others have said, if you want to express your support for Obama, then by all means, create a fresh and original flag to do so. But to openly alter our historically adopted symbol of American unity is a shot at the nations spirit from within.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 12:55 PM
Fuss over nothing.

I'd agree the OP is aimed to get those Obama haters (and there seems to be a ludicrous amount of them on ATS these days) all riled up. There's no direct connection to the Obama administration with this flag. It's not officially sanctioned merchandise, just crap sold by some idiot who knows there are some Obama-ites who do just hang on his every word and believe everything he says who will buy any old tat with his picture on it. Is it Obama's fault that in a capitalist country somebody is trying to make a quick buck? No. And it's hardly a desecration of the flag is it? In reality (i.e not in a crazy person's head, you know the sort, they think Sarah Palin actually IS a viable candidate) it's just a pic of Obama beside some stripes. I'd also argue (if I was an over-patriotic nutter) that Bush signing an actual bona fide stars-n-stripes was an actual desecration of the flag.

But then, what do I care? I'm even not American!

I will tell you this however. As a non-yank it is becoming increasingly difficult to enjoy a visit to ATS. The amount of unjustified anti-Obama threads and posts is well past being just tedious. This site has become infested with right-wing loonies of late, and denying ignorance seems to be the furthest thing from a lot of people's minds.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 12:55 PM

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by jibeho

I happen to agree with you. If the U.S. flag is ok to alter, then when is Michelle going on the statue of liberty? Obama on Mt. Rushmore?

It is indeed a double standard. Would it be ok then, to put Reagan on the flag?

OK I have a Betty Boop Statue of Liberty nick nack. Is that ok since she isn't "an Obama?"
Your problem is that it is not George Bush. Plain and simple.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 01:10 PM
Should we assume that the author of this thread would be similarly outraged over these existing alterations of the flag?

This thread is nothing more than a cheap attempt for sensational partisan rancor.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 01:15 PM
I'm sorry, but this post must be from a FOX News commentator because it reeks of no common sense and a vile hatred for our elected President and Nobel PEACE prize winner!

Republicans are such hateful, hateful people!

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 01:27 PM
I don't think we should be trying to stop this guy. No one should force him to close his doors. If people want it they should be able to buy it.

I do believe that people should be wary of such things. Iconography is a very powerful tool for emotional programming. What happens when you see the McDonalds symbol, or a classic Coca-Cola bottle. You have instant associations with certain thoughts, atitudes, and memories. You respond instantly and involuntarily.

When you begin to subvert an icon (or logo) you can actually change perception and expectation. That is one of the reasons that the Obama-Joker picture works. That is why satirical cartoons are effective. You change the mental association with the icon. This has been a well known truth in corporate marketing for years. That is why Pepsi, Coca-Cola, Gold's Gym, and other's sued Christian t-shirt makers for using their logos in the 80's. They knew that people's mental association with that logo could be changed and their product forgotten, or diminished.

The same thing that could happen to those companies can happen to us as a nation. If tens of thousands or - tens of millions - of people are exposed to a new icon, their mental associations can change. There are numerous associations people could make based on this flag. If exposed often enough and long enough they could start to see it as the proper course for the country. One central leader instead of a coalition of states. Some could even come to associate it with a strong Obama being the only right and true course for America. It could also back fire and cause feelings of resentment, anger, and outrage towards Obama for not stopping this use of his image.

Their are a lot of ways this could play. However, we must be wary when anyone begins subverting icons for personal use.

From the book Coercion by Douglass Rushkoff

Wary of storie, slogans, and other emotional traps, young people in particular have been drawn to icons as a way of expressing who they are and what they believe in. Kids paste iconic stickers on their skateboards, attach iconic keychains to their back packs, and collect trading cards and pogs with simple iconic representations. Because they seem universal and disconnected they are percieved as somehow safe from the influence of authority.

Advertisers exploiting this same principle have moved toward more iconic ways of representing their products. The simpler and less descriptive the icon, the more universal its appeal. . . By adopting the post linguistic currency of an iconic culture, marketers can reposition themselves and their brands in a manner consistn with the operating system of today's point and click market place.

(Any mistakes aremy fault I typed in the above quoted section myself.)

Iconography has power, and the more we are constantly bombarded with advertising slogans and pitches the more powerfull it becomes. The power of the icon is also aided by technology. How many programs and apps can you recognize just by an icon. No matter what site you visit you can figure out how to send an e-mail because the icons are all basicly the same. You can figure out which program is the word processor because the icons are basicly the same. We are programmed and trained daily to think in a more and more iconic manner. This new programming means that things like this flag can have a bigger impact now than ever before. Young people are even more suceptible to this programming and reprogramming that older generations.

I am not saying this flag is an Obama conspiracy. What I am saying is that we must watch how we manipulate icons. We must watch how other people manipulate icons.We must be ever thoughtful of how those images affect us.

A quick video on iconography that is interesting even if you disagree with the political view.

(Thanks to The Myth Lives. I hijacked this video from his thread on iconography.)

Had to edit to tidy things up a bit.

[edit on 12-10-2009 by MikeNice81]

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 01:48 PM

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

How would you feel about replacing your prized maple leaf with the image of Conservative PM Harper?

Oh I get it. You are worried that this Obama flag is going to replace the good old stars and bars.... Well, you have nothing to worry about. It is just a novelty item similar to that of the pet rock or chia pet.... Obama chia pet for that matter ( Yikes)

The United States flag is not going anywhere. I would not buy one of these Obama flags myself but see no more harm in people buying this flag then I do, seeing them buy a flag with their favorite sports team logo on it....

On a side note, before you call me a left winger, or any other name that you can think of that you consider a dirty word, just know, I did not vote for Obama, I feel that he has not done much of anything so far...

The flag as far as I can tell is just a flag made by a private company/person in an attempt to make a quick buck. That is capitalism for you... You don't have a problem with the american way that is capitalism do you?

Because... If so... what does that make you?

Just jesting there on that last part buddy.

I am curious what you think of the people I have seen who have been flying their flag upside down ( a military thing which symbolizes a call for help, or that they are in trouble)

Do you think it is bad to fly the flag upside down, even though it is OK for our military to do it if need be?

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 01:51 PM
reply to post by MikeNice81

I think you make a great point: we forget how powerful an image can be to our subconscious. That is the point behind a national symbol; it brings us a sense of unity. Having that symbol altered and "popularized" takes away from its intended purpose. It trivializes its meaning and purpose.

When I look around I see a general disregard for the American Flag. Here in the US no less. What does that say about the state of mind for our general popluation? We just really don't have any patriotic spirit. I'm NOT saying that we should all just blindly follow anyone waving the flag and assume that they hold our best interests in regard. What I'm saying is that, how can we expect to unite as a people in our own nation if we don't even care about our adopted national symbol?

Again, a united nation is strong and can make forward progress. People stay involved and don't allow our representatives to discount our needs and feelings. However, if we don't even recognize that we are all united for a common good, then we are divided and destined for failure. It is a simple thing that can tear us down from within.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:21 PM

Originally posted by ShadoMan
I'm sorry, but this post must be from a FOX News commentator because it reeks of no common sense and a vile hatred for our elected President and Nobel PEACE prize winner!

Republicans are such hateful, hateful people!

Yes, you can catch my show at 9:55pm EST.

I don't hate the President. He is just being used a tool to manipulate the nation and people like you. I hate his administration's policies and the double standards set forth for his office and its bevy of czars. The man has no control or experience. He represents nothing more than a smile and a hand shake.

I'm not a Republican are you?

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:37 PM
reply to post by

Yes it is a cheap attempt at creating evil towards our president. Thanks for noticing
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and pretty pictures. I have only seen some of those pictures before and I am not sure of the context of the others. I don't like them but freedom of expression right. Hence my opinions in this thread.

God hate me if I take pride in my country and in the flag that represents the great nation that we once were.

The campaign is long over. The honeymoon is over. Obama's support is waning and in 2012 his administration will be remembered as a very bad dream that turned into a horrible nightmare for this country. Enjoy your freedom while you can. By this time next year sites like ATS won't even exist in an effort to silence any and all opposition to the administration.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:47 PM
this is so unimportant. this is like a battle on people's opinions of what they deem worthy to spend their money on.

turns out a great deal of people like obama.

hey maybe the flag is a little much but does it really surprise anyone?

and, in my opinion, the american flag lost a big chunk of its value the day someone realized they could a lot of money selling them to people after 9/11.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:48 PM

Originally posted by jibeho

It is all about the symbolism. An altered US flag bearing the image of the sitting POTUS has never existed before. I guess with Obama it is a no holds barred situation. A free pass for Obama and his supporters. Indeed.

Are you capable of deductive reasoning? Since when does someone, a "fan" if you will, creating an object that puts the object of their affection (or disdain) on a pedestal equate to a direct endorsement by the one being objectified?

Stop and think, Jibeho instead of trying to stir the pot by posting this drivel on here.

Originally posted by jibeho
Imagine if you will, the stir that would have been created if this was the image of Bush during his administration. Double standard. You better believe it. I will not accept this. No explanation needed.

Do you want me to photoshop one up for you so you can feel like things are equal? Just let me know - it'll take 10 seconds.

[edit on 12-10-2009 by shrike071]

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:51 PM

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by

1-Yes it is a cheap attempt at creating evil towards our president. Thanks for noticing
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and pretty pictures.

2- Enjoy your freedom while you can. By this time next year sites like ATS won't even exist in an effort to silence any and all opposition to the administration.

1-so condescending, those pictures are proof that it doesn't really matter

2-People like you make these kind of statements all the time, oh no our liberties our gone blah blah blah

this time next year, I will be checking ATS and possibly so will you, completely forgetting your utter nonsense that is this thread.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:53 PM
also if you care about the content of this website, you people will stop flagging this thread.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:54 PM

Originally posted by jibeho
God hate me if I take pride in my country and in the flag that represents the great nation that we once were.

Oh, puleeze...draping yourself in the flag and getting all wounded. Is that supposed to make your argument bulletproof? Because it just sullies the flag you worship.

For starters, you gave Obama no honeymoon, so that euphemism need not be part of your vocabulary. You started your sniping right away, and have wasted no opportunity to get in that extra dig. This thread is nonsense. If that flag flies over the White House...then worry. Until then, why not just get a hobby, instead?

... By this time next year sites like ATS won't even exist in an effort to silence any and all opposition to the administration.

Sure thing...that takes your post out of "Political Madness" in right into the total wackadoo section of the site.

Again, find a something

Any idiot can tear down...

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:56 PM
I can't believe there are people defending this flag. That's what gets me, not that some Obamaniac pissed on our flag, I mean I totally expect that. But I never expected to see anyone from ATS defend it, not even the transparent cheerleaders you so commonly see. Oh, well, may ignorance wave like Obama's flag in a cool breaze. It's clearly illegal, clearly an Obamanation
to our nation's symbol and a scary foot note for future history lessons on the mind set of the type of people that supported this man.

[edit on 12-10-2009 by Sheeper]

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 02:59 PM
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

I am not worried about this flag replacing anything. However, I find its symbolism and the chosen image of Obama to be rather chilling given the power hungry nature of his administration. I also find the indifference shown to this image in this thread to be a little disturbing as well. To each his own.

I feel like this nation is spiraling downward at an alarming rate. The MSM continually panders to the White House and the White House continually and openly attacks ONE overwhelmingly popular Cable News Network and all conservative radio news outlets. He can't stand any fact based criticism or calls for accountability and his administration is driving the wedge deeper and deeper into this country despite his pledge for a bipartisanship administration.

We are in trouble. I never thought that I would see the day when the dollar is no longer the preferred international trading standard. All Obama cares about is pushing his personal healthcare and cap and trade agenda through the ranks.

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 03:02 PM
reply to post by Sheeper

What do you want?
The police to raid this guys flag business?
What are you guys so worked up over?
I guess you are one of those arrest people to preserve freedom type patriots!

posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 03:02 PM

Originally posted by jibeho
The confederate flag represents History and is not an alteration. The gay pride flag can fly all I day for all I care. However, it has ruined the simple meaning of rainbows for me. Peace flag, big deal.

This new flag is an alteration of our nations symbol and could very well violate the laws that protect the flag.

The Flag Code
Title 4 United States Code:
§ 8. Respect for Flag
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

The flag code refers to an already manufactured United States flag. Meaning that these flags would need to have been normal flags to be covered by the code. As these flags were manufactured in this way (having never born the fifty states in the upper left corner) they are not covered under flag code.

The right wing "tea flags" on the other hand . . .

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