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Ahmadinejad warns of 'Weapons of Mass Media'

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posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Like i said you can say what you want but my real world experience outweighs your theories and books any day.


Like I said, read my posts.



Did i mention that I live in the USA and work with refugees EVERY DAY from Pakistan, Baghdad, Iran, Afghanistan? mmm i guess their stories and point of views are all b.s. too right?


They are doing what all humans do. Trying to find the most accomodating place to live. Never said America was garbage. I said megacorp, military industrial complex, associated banks, and international bank's higher-ups are horrible, fraudulent, psychotic, pre-teens that be playing games they get off to with eachother.



Awful awful America and its hateful military, interesting how so many of these people chose to come here to the US to escape these areas. And its not because of OUR forces there, its because of the GOVERNMENTS there.


And, yes, I'm sure NO ONE left because there is fighting going on. There are no refugees fleeing- from Israel to Iraq to Syria to Iran to Lebanon to anywhere in and around Gaza- to avoid having a bomb slipped through their roof. Nope, none. The EU's south didn't close borders back during the initial stages of the Iraq invasion, either.

See, even this doesn't affect you.

You now act like I actually said the USA has a worse quality of living than anywhere else. You now act like that was the basis of my argument, end of story. You don't even see the message I make, whatsoever, because you are so stuck on what? Is it pride? Your ego? The message from the tube? Let go.

If the Chinese (or anyone) were to put one foot on my soil with the intention of taking over (which, of course, they won't), I would be standing along with the 225-250 million lawful gun owners in America - defending what I love and what I want to see fixed, not f*xed.

I'm anti-american, though. Propaganda at it's finest.

I hate my country because I want to fix the electoral college, put congress, thus the direction of this nation, back into the hands of we the people. I hate America because I want innocents to stop having bombs dropped on their heads, because I care for the welfare of people's that aint of my country. A more perfect union... ain't going to accomplish itself on it's own.



Take your military, US bashing somewhere else, I dont buy into it.


See above. And also for the rest.

Is this a trend, though? Keep changing/adding/saving face, assault... I don't know what comes next. Friends show skits, I bet ya.

Or were you just trying to draw away from the point that the US is the safest place on this Earth and that there is nothing anyone, short of our own ambitious handlers, can do to bring hurt?




posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Anyone can read your posts and see your clear disdain for our military.


Only when their Ego's swallo them up.



You can insult me all you want, it really makes no difference to me, if it makes you feel superior to insult people, then I would have to say youre even more inexperienced and arrogant than i first expected.


You are funny. You call us anti-american, blind hypocrites, etc. Then you try and pull this? Arrogant, too?



Again cry foul on what you wish, truth is truth and thats all there is to it. I have experience first hand where you do not. Period, end of story.


So do my friends. They spin a black picture, if you think yours is white. Period, end of story.



I would be curious tho, you said you "trained" military personnel in hand to hand combat. Care to share? Which branch? When? Where?


Your name, branch, where did you go to basic, when, where were you stationed in Iraq, your field of expertise, etc.?

Oh this wasn't to me... oops.



Pardon me for being a little skeptical , I mean, after all my numerous and CONTINUING experience with the people of the middle east apparently is irrelevant, so why would i believe that just because you use to "train" our military in hand to hand combat that you wouldnt look down on them and talk bad about them..... which you have.........at any rate.......enlighten me o pompous one.


I'm stealing thunder again, and I love it.

My opinion is that I whole-heartedly love any soldier who has the intention, whether misguided or not, to protect the values they are told their country stands for: Equality, freedom, diversity, love. All, in reality, are so far from the truth.

You came saying knowledge isnt worth a penny. He came saying knowledge is worth more than you seem to imagine it does.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by EvolvedMinistry
 


What a load of bloated lip flapping verbal excrement!

Interesting thread topic, maybe you should stay on it instead of all this crap being spewed out of your backside about how the rest of ATS needs to listen to your version of morality and events. Give it a rest, you may win a few points with some simpleminded gluteus copulators but for many of us here we are not impressed. We have seen your type before. Who knows? Maybe we have seen you before under another user name possibly?

Stay on topic and stop insulting other posters becuase they have an opposing opinion that differs from your own. Remember they have a right to post it. Simply becuase you cant seem to drag your hairy knuckles across a keyboard and mash the keys to post a reply without demonstrating your very obvious inferiority problem doesn't mean you can take out your frustration about your inadequacies on everybody who differs from you by putting them down and belittling their replies.

Let me ask you a question? Why did you loose your first screen name? Banned possibly? If so I can understand why. Instead of pounding your chest and being a blowhard lets get back to and discuss the topic.

Ahmadinejad warns of 'Weapons of Mass Media' Not the self righteous pompous and twisted view of the world according to EvolvedMinistry.

Get over yourself.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by EvolvedMinistry
 


Please, enlightened sir, continue to post your blather. You amuse us, much like a court jester of old.


Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Oh...and I DO UNDERSTAND THAT REGION. I am a poly sci specialist who has studied the Muslim world and its history,



Izzat so? A real live "poly sci" (NOT "poli sci", I note) specialist? Here. let me roll out that red carpet for ya, and dust your seat. Careful that your mortar board isn't out of adjustment. Flying shamshirs will sometimes knock them askance. With all that education, you DO know what a shamshir is, right? With all that learnin', you could get a good job as an analyst with the CIA. You don't ALREADY work for the CIA, do you? Your "intel" is about on par with some I've seen come from those "analysts".

You studied the "muslim world and it's history"? Got a PHD in the good old Dar Al-Islam, eh? If you do, you ought to know better than the things you write.


Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
And, although I have not served, I have trained the military in hand to hand combat. (Jeet Kune Do concepts, Hapkido, jujitsu, boxing, knife training and weapon defense.)


BOXING? Remind me to thank you next time I call the Marquise of Queensbury to referee a fight on one of MY battlefields. Same goes for the rest of your fancy dance moves. Don't pretend to know anything about combat, son. It's unbecoming of one so educated.


Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

And, as it were, we have the same garbage going on here. We have silly little conservatives running around with tin foil hats throwing "tea parties" because they think its a bad idea to have health coverage (they're acting like liberals). And these were the same people who claimed that to protest the president was "Anti-American, anti-freedom, and anti-democracy." As long as the MSM can focus on these little nut jobs, they can claim that the "majority" of Americans are against health care reform.



Which quote tells me you don't know what goes on in your OWN country, and you allegedly LIVE here! I'm supposed to believe you have learned everything about Dar Al-Islam from BOOKS, when you don't appear to even be able to learn from actual observations?


Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

You get your information from google and youtube, mine is based on scholarly sources. (i.e. research done by people with PHD's who have investigated every angle.)



Let me understand this - these people, like yourself, learn stuff from books, and then write OTHER books to back it up? What a quaint belief system!




Your posts reek of partiality and partisan influence.


Unlike YOURS.





Hmmm...I guess I could accuse you of the same thing. Arrogance...right???

MY TOURS AROUND THE MUSLIM PEOPLE TAUGHT ME THEIR ENTIRE 3000 YEAR HISTORY. AND WHILE I WAS OUT THERE HARASSING THEM AND ROUNDING THEM UP INTO PRISONS, I WAS ABLE TO LEARN EVERY DETAIL ABOUT WHAT MAKES THEM TICK. AND BECAUSE I STEPPED ON THEIR SOIL AND BREATHED THE AIR, THAT GIVES ME THE ULTIMATE INSIGHT ON THEIR PSYCHOLOGY AND SOCIOLOGICAL ASPECTS.



Islam has a 3000 year history now? Which books are you learning from?

As far as the other charges, even if they were true, rather than your sensationalized attempt at misguidance, I'm afraid it would STILL constitute more experience with muslims than sitting back on a Saturday night with a good book on the subject.

It's called EXPERIENCE. It's a real world concept that academia often overlooks. Interaction is a bit too dangerous for academics, I guess. It often crushes their carefully crafted "realities".



Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Sorry, but I haven't seen you back up anything. Nothing, not one iota. If you call posting youtube videos the backing of your information, then, you fall right in line with the majority here on ATS, and the majority of info that I see posted is not reputable.



I would say your target's posting of YouTube videos is a bit closer to backup than your nebulous claims of "interactions with world leaders". Anyone can say anything. At least your target in that attack posted SOMETHING that was outside of, and independent of their fantasy life.

Unlike you.

What are your sources again?

Now don't get me wrong, books and education are fine things. Much like MSM reports, however, they're not worth a damn without enough common sense to analyze what you're being fed in them, though. Back when I was being educated, we were taught to QUESTION things, not just accept them because someone with an alphabet group next to his name SAID so!

I also note, with inordinate satisfaction, that it is usually "poly sci" specialists with a faulty understanding of realities on the ground that get us into these messes, and then the military has to haul their fat out of the fire and fight us out of them.

One fine day, the military that you so disdain is going to leave the poli-sci empty suits standing and stuttering as the pitchfork-armed peasants march on the Bastille. It's not like it's never happened before.

I DO hope I survive long enough to see that day.

[edit on 2009/10/16 by nenothtu]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by shanerz
 


Im not goign to reply to any of that last post because its all drivel.

But if you look through my posts you can find out when, where, what branch and even what unit I was in...........try doing some research......

You do have to do that in your classes dont you?



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


The U.S. marines, and army 1992-1993. Through Crane (Naval Weapons Support Center) and Camp Addebury in Indiana under Tony Brown's contract (he was the one who the military contracted through). I also have friends who also trained the military through their own contracts and I have worked through Martial Concepts under Jason Winkle and Pat Kelley or it could be Kelly. Jason Winkle (a good friend of mine) now teaches in Indiana, he's no longer training the military at West Point, and now we all train cage fighters. However, since my work load at Indiana University has increased, I haven't had the time to train cage fighters like I did last year. So, there's your information.

Secondly, you've made your own inferences about my supposed like, or dislike of the military. Too bad for you. I have too many friends in the service and too powerful of a love for the REAL UNITED STATES, for me to agree with that rash little statement. So, you can play the anti-American card against me if you will, but, don't you think that is a little retro???

And I'm sorry that I don't share your inherent fear of Ahmedinejad. If I have to fear anything, it would be the idea of fearing anything at all. Until Ahmedinejad blows something sky high, or starts killing thousands of people for his own personal entertainment, I think I have enough to worry about on the domestic front. So, while you try to prove me wrong and look up all my credentials, I'll be sitting in Astronomy learning more valuable information about life and expanding my net worth to the world.

Oh, by the way, you don't have to be on Iraqi soil to have experience. And just so you know, Iranians don't think the same way that Iraqi people do. Sorry to burst your bubble, but campuses serve as a wonderful microcosm to understanding the macro. I mingle with real MUSLIMS on a day to day basis on the campus that I'm on and get educated on their views and religion daily. Therefore, I think I get a great amount of illumination on the way that they think, feel, and view the world. And guess what, they haven't ran around planting IED's in every corner or crevice to take over our campus or country.

I think you need to go back and study the Iran Contra affairs, the Iranian Revolution, and the foundation between the split between shiite and the sunni muslims. You'd do good to have a little historical foundation for the opinions that you've forged from propaganda.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by shanerz
 


Im not goign to reply to any of that last post because its all drivel.

But if you look through my posts you can find out when, where, what branch and even what unit I was in...........try doing some research......

You do have to do that in your classes dont you?


From what I've seen and read, he's not the one in classes, I am. You're confusing one for the other. He's probably educated though. I definitely notice that you have an aversion to anyone who demonstrates that they've been classically trained in the Universities and believe that you've done something special by being in the military. Sorry bud, but that's nothing new. I find it interesting that you have such an oddly different perspective of the world than most other veterans that I know who have come back from overseas. Why is that??? You see, they actually saw combat, therefore their perspective seems to be very different than the one that you portray. I'm guessing that you never saw a bit of combat whatsoever. Would that be an accurate assessment on my behalf??? I think so. If not, then I apologize.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 

Poor guy...did I hurt your fragile sensibilities???

By the way, I absolutely LOOOOOOOOOOVE your avatar. Very threatening!!!

Thanks for your very eloquently stated opinion. You came just in time to save a drowning veteran from himself!!!

As far as the topic goes...sorry, I'm still not frightened of Ahmedinejad! You can have that one all to yourself!!! I know how to recognize our true enemy. I hope you will wake up and do the same.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 

This is great!!! You guys are providing me more entertainment than a night at the movies!!!

But, I don't mind taking on the weak, because with all of you put together, you still couldn't sit in a real debate and support your own weight with your opinions.

Thank you so much for at least showing some solidarity with each other, but, you'll need a little more than rash statements and insults to make a viable case.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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I absolutely find it hilarious that it takes so many people to defend the same position. And what was that position again???

Oh yeah...I think the original position was how we were supposed to fear the big, bad, and scary Ahmedinejad.

Well, go ahead and provide evidence for why we should give this guy our time of day. Let's see, so far its been because he claimed that he wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth (however, he's done nothing that would indicate that this is a plan of his) and that he wants to destroy the freedoms and liberties of the United States.

Well, lets see...The U.S. doesn't need any help with that. We've not only limited our own freedoms with the patriot act, Obama has officially made it legal to indefinitely detain people in our own country without trail (thus the closing of Guantanamo Bay). We didn't need Ahmedinejad for that one, did we? Oh yeah, we also broke our own economy and continue to borrow money from our supposed enemies (China). Hey, didn't thousands of our soldiers die trying to defend the world against communism??? But, I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you could blame Ahmedinejad for that one as well.
Oh, as I mentioned earlier, thousands upon thousands of our own people are now destitute because because of the sub-prime mortgage crisis, but, I guess we could go ahead and chalk up Ahmedinejad for that one.
Oh and lets see, we could also blame Ahmedinejad for revising the Geneva conventions to allow torture. He had everything to do with that. Hell, why don't we just blame Ahmedinejad for 911, illegal wiretapping, hurricane Katrina and the faulty and failed response to help the United States' own people in a crisis. We could also blame Ahmedinejad for Abu Ghraib, Mark Foley's love for children and every scandal that happened within the last 9 years. We could also blame Ajmedinejad for Bush's faulty intelligence that told us that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I'm pretty sure that Ahmedinejad also was behind Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, as well as the stock market crash, and the reason why we continue to borrow money to bail out corporations that were paying CEO's millions of dollars AFTER THE BOTTOM FELL OUT. And yeah, Ahmedinejad is also behind our media's incessant love affair with celebrities and the control of our information flow. But lets not stop there. Ahmedinejad was the reason why we pulled out of Viet Nam. He was the reason why Nixon had to resign during the Watergate scandal, was the guy who rigged the DNC of 1968, killed Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr., he was also the guy who created our national security act of 1947. Ahmedinejad was also the guy funding Hitler (even though there's evidence that Prescott Bush and Donald Reagan were the culprits behind that), and he also caused the first stock market crash of the 30's. Hell, I bet he had something to do with prohibition as well.

So...now I'm on board with all of your insecurities, conspiracy theories, paranoia and propaganda filled garbage about a guy who poses absolutely no threat to our liberties. You guys are brilliant!!!


[edit on 16-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]

[edit on 16-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Sensationalized attempt at misguidance??? Now that is a huge sentence that means absolutely nothing.

When you string big words together, make sure they have an intrinsic meaning that can be readily understood by an audience. WOW!!!


Oh...and as far as that 3000 year history, you caught me on that one. Misprint...I guess I should have proofread my post. I tried to type in 2000 year history as a round number, even though it's more like 1800 year history. So, I'll have to accept that as a viable correction.

Otherwise, everything else that you typed is a mirror image of everyone else's argument, and so far I see nothing that indicates Ahmedinejad is the ultimate threat.

And my friend...Anytime you want to come to Indiana University and "educate me on the art of combat," I will be more that willing to meet you right down the middle. The only prerequisite is this, I insist to film it so that I can post it on youtube and apply your "very scary avatar" right next to you as you're tapping out on the mat. By the way, you can use any form of combat if you want. You can even try to kill me if you like, I'll allow you to use anything in your arsenal. There's a reason why the military outsources some of their combat training to professionals who have done it their entire life...Often the private sector is far superior than the piddly 8 weeks that you guys get before you're put on the battlefield.

Don't fool yourself, you guys are given sloppy training and the only thing that you're proficient at is pulling triggers.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by nenothtu
 

This is great!!! You guys are providing me more entertainment than a night at the movies!!!

But, I don't mind taking on the weak, because with all of you put together, you still couldn't sit in a real debate and support your own weight with your opinions.

Thank you so much for at least showing some solidarity with each other, but, you'll need a little more than rash statements and insults to make a viable case.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]


I note, with some degree of mirth, that you consistently avoided any answer to the points made, however bluntly.

I also note that either you were very young (1992-1993) when you were teaching Marines the fine art of how to close with and kill the enemy, OR you are rather long in the tooth for a university student these days, No matter, I myself was over 30 last time I attended university. No shame in gaining education at any age.

What were those terms of endearment you use in referring to your beloved troops again? Oh, yes, that's right. I believe you called them "idiots", among other sweet nothings. Way to show your utmost respect there, cap.

You are quite correct in the assessment that Iranians THINK differently from Arabs. Mention of the sunni-shia rift didn't hurt your case either, but you failed to connect the dots for us less enlightened beings.

You failed to mention, for example, the inherent distrust of Arabs for Persians. I'm sure that little dustup at Makkah a few years back did nothing to improve that situation. Neither did you mention the sheer DEPTH of the Sunni-Shia rift. Pity that it got to that over a little misunderstanding of the rightful successor to Mohammed, isn't it? No matter. I'm sure the Mahdi can sort all that out when Amedinijad brings the Mahdi out through the skillful application of death and destruction. And the skillful use of the media, which he appears to be well on his way to achieving.

You also forgot to mention that Arabs are predominantly sunni, and persians are predominantly shia. I bet that helps heal the wounds, eh? The one tie that binds is that they are ALL members of Dar al-Islam, and the rest of us get lumped together in Dar al-Harb.

All in all, you appear to have a smattering of knowledge on the subject, but nothing in depth.

What is that they say? Oh yes, "a LITTLE knowledge is a dangerous thing". There MAY be hope for you yet, but you'll have to subvert the pride, and gain some actual knowledge.

You have to be able to connect the dots to bring the picture out.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Hmmm...nice try. But, we're not talking about the Persians, are we??? We're talking about the Iranians. Sunnis make up about 8% of that population whereas Shiite make up about 89% of the population.

And, my depth of understanding about each of those sects goes far beyond what I am posting on this silly little board. I'm not here to do your homework for you, sorry about your luck. I could post stuff all day long to make it appear as if I have a wealth of knowledge, after all, isn't that what you guys do???

I made my points loud and clear, unfortunately, you guys are so stuck on the idea that Ahmedinejad is the world's largest threat, that you can't see that the real boogeyman has already infiltrated you.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Sensationalized attempt at misguidance??? Now that is a huge sentence that means absolutely nothing.

When you string big words together, make sure they have an intrinsic meaning that can be readily understood by an audience. WOW!!!



A little vocabulary goes a long way in improving reading comprehension. You should try it. Not my fault if you can't puzzle out the meaning. YOU'RE the one who places such great store in book learning.



And my friend...Anytime you want to come to Indiana University and "educate me on the art of combat," I will be more that willing to meet you right down the middle. The only prerequisite is this, I insist to film it so that I can post it on youtube and apply your "very scary avatar" right next to you as you're tapping out on the mat. By the way, you can use any form of combat if you want. You can even try to kill me if you like, I'll allow you to use anything in your arsenal.


Throwing down the gauntlet, are we? I must have struck a nerve. Never mind, I have no intention of engaging you in a bout of fisticuffs, youngster.

Neither do I shoot fish in barrels.

The avatar is nothing more than advertisement for a collaborative writing effort we have going on here at ATS. Try not to read too much into appearances. It displays your depth of understanding.



There's a reason why the military outsources some of their combat training to professionals who have done it their entire life...


Never confuse the notion that just because you've made a habit of fighting your whole life, there aren't others around who may have done the same. Could be their lives have been longer, hence more experience at same. In the real world, not "tapping out on mats". I'll chalk that up to the false bravado of youth.

I think we may have a difference of opinion as to what constitutes a "professional".



Often the private sector is far superior than the piddly 8 weeks that you guys get before you're put on the battlefield.


A number of misconceptions here. The "private sector" can afford to FEEL superior in such cases. They aren't generally being KILLED in their sport. I have to agree, though, 8 weeks IS a piddlingly small amount of training for real world hand-to-hand. Of course there's a lot to be said for experience, assuming one survives the experience.

The final misconception here is that, by your reference to "you guys", you appear to have assumed that I was US military. I apologize if I gave you that impression. It ain't so. While I HAVE been to see the critter, none of those occaisions was under color of the US flag. I much prefer to choose my own enemies, rather than having them chosen for me.

Sometimes the Official Story is... incongruous... with reality on the ground.



Don't fool yourself, you guys are given sloppy training and the only thing that you're proficient at is pulling triggers.


Reference above. I also note that, since you know nothing of me, it may be a bit presumptuous to assume you have any idea of my "proficiencies".



Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


Doubtless a reference to campus life, entirely lost on us Neanderthals.

Can we please get back to the topic at hand now, sans the personal attacks and gauntlet-throwing? You're BAD. I get it. You've shaken me to the core.

I believe the actual topic had something to do with a naughty Persian.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Hmmm...nice try. But, we're not talking about the Persians, are we??? We're talking about the Iranians. Sunnis make up about 8% of that population whereas Shiite make up about 89% of the population.

And, my depth of understanding about each of those sects goes far beyond what I am posting on this silly little board. I'm not here to do your homework for you, sorry about your luck. I could post stuff all day long to make it appear as if I have a wealth of knowledge, after all, isn't that what you guys do???

I made my points loud and clear, unfortunately, you guys are so stuck on the idea that Ahmedinejad is the world's largest threat, that you can't see that the real boogeyman has already infiltrated you.



That's a lot of words just to tell us that you aren't going to tell us anything.

Or quite possibly CAN'T.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


I am going to edit this last post to you because you've done something that the others have not, which is...trying to debate with intelligence. And you were the only one who brought up crucial information regarding the Sunni and Shiite factions so for that, I give you respect.

As far as your last post goes, I don't believe in doing the research for others so that I can prove a point that goes against your schema. If you're not willing to entertain the idea that Ahmedinejad is not a threat, then no amount of evidence will prove to you the contrary. I've done all of that before with little or no effect. So, why would I waste my time?

Now, I was not referring to you when I made reference to my combat experience, nor was it you that I was calling out. That statement went to Slayer69 who attempted to tell me that I knew nothing at all. I've put plenty of military boys in their places when they got an overinflated ego due to their limited knowledge of hand to hand combat. Often times, one thinks that just because they are touting around an M-16 that they have an air of invincibility that makes them untouchable, and slayer69 is a prime example of such. And my offer still stands to him...not you.

Nonetheless, I am willing to continue this debate with you because you at least seem willing to listen to another point of view. So, I eagerly await your next response.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]

[edit on 16-10-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 05:37 PM
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My better angels unpredictably popped out, and I had to fling a star at you for that response.

The ego stroke probably didn't hurt, either.


I am entirely willing to entertain the notion that, by himself, Ahmedinejad is not a threat. I'd go so far as to say that, by himself, it's a CERTAINTY that he poses no threat.

But he's not by himself. As they say, no man is an island.

He's representative of a subfaction, among many vocal factions, of Islam. Not all muslims are a threat. Matter of fact, I've found some of them to be among the best friends a man can have. I once had the good fortune to have a friend, who was a muslim, go WAY out of his way to talk me into getting myself out of a situation that was about to go south really fast. He KNEW what was up, and, without tipping me off, convinced me to be elsewhere so that I didn't get myself all corpsified. Understand, had he tipped me off, then HE would have been in danger, from his own fellows. It had to be done the way it was, if it were to be done at all.

No, I'm not bashing Islam, per se. There ARE, however, factions that will drop one in a world of hurt, simply for not rolling over and "submitting". Ahmedinejad seems to fall into that category, based on his rhetoric. I fully understand his need to appear "strong" for his populace, but there are limits.

I also understand that his power is limited, and the mullahs actually pull his strings. Those same mullahs, the "power behind the throne" as it were, are a dangerous breed indeed. Usually not overtly, in the case of Iran, but dangerous nonetheless. The only OVERT instance of bad FOREIGN behavior by the clerical class in recent memory was that unfortunate hostage incident when Ayatollah Khomeini assumed the mantle in the late 70's. Ahmedinejad was one of those students taking the hostages, but he was just following orders, eh? And building rapport with the ruling classes. Typical politician stuff.

No, he himself is no danger at all, but he puts a face on a danger, and gives a voice to it.

COVERTLY, Iran seems to have a finger in everyone's pie, but who doesn't? The problem would appear to lie in the objectives, and whose interest that covert action goes against. It's my personal opinion that Iran is trying to build a wider power base, and network of favors owed if you will. With that in place, they could well and truly be a danger. Not just to the US, or even the west in general, but also to fellow muslims. I think we both realize that the Saudi Wahabbis won't allow Iran to gather THAT much power to itself. They may have similar goals in the final analysis, but philosophical differences will inevitably cause a clash. More regional instability. Bad for everyone's business, not just US concerns.

Ahmedinejad shoots of his mouth WAY too much for a mere "show of strength" to his own people. That leads me to believe that he's trying to convince THEM of something, which in turn leads me to believe that the Clerical Government may not have quite the popular support that it is assumed to have here at ATS.

Which brings us to nuclear issues. How better to demonstrate Iran's power not just to her own people, but to the Islamic world at large, and the rest of us, than to pull out a nuclear weapon right out from under US/UN noses? A "thumbing of the nose" at the collective opposition, but a dangerous shift in the balance of power regionally. It may be a demonstration of the Great Satan Anerica's weakness, but more than that it will be perceived as a threat to regional governments. More instability regionally, and ultimately a threat to the well being of the world, not just America, even if the nukes were NEVER used, except as a threat.

It's not just a threat to Israel (whether the "Jewish State", or the "Zionist Government" matters nary a whit) but a threat to a huge number of muslims as well, Palestinian pawns included. That old Sunni-Shia rift, not to mention the Wahabbist fundamentalists or any other fundamentalists that "fundamentally" are in opposition to the Shiites.

So you see, in my opinion Ahmedinejad is not a threat alone, but the tip of a threatening spear. See, that single molecule at the very tip of the spear doesn't count for much, but when the weight of the spear gets behind it, there could be trouble afoot. Better to deflect it before it gets to that point.

Ahmedinejad is just the face of the danger, the focal point, the "point man".



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by EvolvedMinistry
 


no appology needed but yes youd be wrong, Operation Green Trident ring a bell?



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Excellent, well I'm glad that we have found common ground. The most important idea that I wanted to convey was that there are far more important things for us to occupy our time and energy towards.

I'm not supporting any idea that he's a good guy with the best of interests for all involved. In fact, just like any politician, the only real interests that he has is his own.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


So what you're really trying to say is that what? We need to drop the ayatollah, mullah or whatever is the control behind Ahmadinejad? Even though we all know where the bigger riggers are. And, no, they will not be happy.

In other words, you're saying we still need to drop bombs on citizen areas? Well, we know our targets are going to go into hiding in civilian areas. Iraq taught us that. They think it's a good shield.

You're also saying we need to pay the military industrial complex, yet again, to protect us from that ever-so-vigilant itch on the back of our minds, called Nostradamus. I thought they'd be fat enough, but they still hunger. If your way goes, we are fighting three overt wars. Many say Iraq and Afghanistan problems just won't end. A constant drainage into the ditch that is debt.

And lastly, it would be a huge mistake not to mention oil and reconstruction anywhere in any examination into a potential conflict, especially in an area laden with such resources, that's just being silly.

Is it going to be the internet, next? Or is it the freedom of speech talk all the world leaders are happy about?

And all because an enemy of humanity might have weapons of mass destruction. At least this time they say maybe, not gogogo. Just because of this one line, people fall into line. But really, not only that, we hear the word terrorist. I think we know where this is going. Back to the recent past.

The basics of corporatist interest propaganda. I guess there really isn't that much diversity in that field, though. It's, basically, prophecy or no one cares.

Familiar?

On a cursory second thought, I have to admit - maybe we should just go. Don't want to see any "Iranian-induced" mushroom clouds over my home soil on the TV.




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