The EDL are not fascists and not racist? (EDL burn nazi flag video), page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 2 times
Topic started on 11-10-2009 @ 05:42 PM by mr-lizard
Okay so the popular consensus in the UK seem to think that the English defence league are 'fascists' , 'racist', 'ignorant', 'stupid' and consist of thugs.

After much hot debate on this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I decided to have a look and see if i can find anything about them.

Please take a look at this video (below) showing the EDL talking about the erosion of democracy, burning a nazi flag, denying any affiliation with extremist racist groups and how the EDL is not racist. The guy in the video also discusses the UAF 'lies' about the EDL and how the peaceful marches have been disrupted by pro-islamic anti-protestors and also how the UAF (united against fascism) are wrongly associating the EDL with fascism.

He quotes 'there is no place with racism within our organisation'.

You will also note several chaps of mixed race standing with them.

www.youtube.com...

Quite eye opening to say the least.

Any comments?

[edit on 11-10-2009 by mr-lizard]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by mr-lizard]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by mr-lizard]


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 09:42 PM by mr-lizard
www.rexusa.com...

Some pictures of the nazi flag burning.

A rather impartial column in the telegraph

www.telegraph.co.uk...

A rather interesting blog from a leftie who understands the UAF as being over-zealous in its attempts to label the EDL as right wing nazi's.

skepticat.wordpress.com...

And a few more links showing the several sides of the proverbial coin.

manchesteruaf.org...

www.iengage.org.uk...

www.dailyecho.co.uk...

www.thesun.co.uk...

Below is a unity statement issued by Manchester Unite Against Fascism against the English Defence League ahead of their proposed march in Manchester.

“We, the undersigned, strongly oppose plans by the ‘English Defence League’, a group linked to the fascist BNP, to demonstrate in Manchester city centre.

“EDL is a racist group dedicated to attacking Asian people and Muslims. Islamophobia – bigotry against Muslims – is as unacceptable as any other form of racism. Its aim is to divide us by making scapegoats of one community, just as the Nazis did with the Jews in the 1930s.

“Today they threaten the mosque, tomorrow it could a synagogue, temple or church. Today, they threaten Muslims, tomorrow it could be Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, blacks, gays, travellers or Eastern Europeans.

“There is no place for Nazis, racists or the BNP in Manchester’s multi cultural and multi religious community. Come and join the peaceful protest to stop the EDL. Our rally will be held in Piccadilly Gardens, 12 noon, on Saturday, October 10th.”

Signed by:

Greater Manchester Unite Against Fascism
Manchester Trades Council
Muslim Council of Britain
Ruth Kelly MP, Bolton West (Lab)
John Leech MP, Manchester Withington (Lib Dem)
Graham Stringer MP, Manchester Blakely (Lab)
Andrew Gwynne MP, Denton & Reddish (Lab)
Brian Iddon MP, Bolton South East (Lab)
Michael Meacher MP, Oldham West & Royton
Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) has signed the Hope not Hate petition.
Show Racism the Red Card
Manchester Unison Community and Mental Health Branch
Sue Bond, Vice-President, PCS
Chris Morley, Northern Organiser, NUJ
Dave Kennedy, CWU
Neil Thompson, North West Chair, FBU
Mohammed Azam, Oldham
Revd Father Kevin Crinks, Priest-in-Charge of Leigh Parish of St Mary the Virgin
RAPAR (Refugee Asylum Participatory Action Research) - a Manchester human rights organisation working with displaced people.
Revd Jane Barraclough, Cross Street Chapel Unitarian
Revd Richard Church, United Reform Church North-Western Synod


The following organisations also support opposition to the English Defence League in Manchester:

Muslim Jewish Forum of Greater Manchester
Jewish Representative Council of Grater Manchester


and then a reply:

I ve seen somewhere that all the arrests were Muslims and 92% of the UAF/so called anti-fascists were Asians(Muslims) can anyone confirm?

Prediction=Following the Tory landslide Mr Camerons change will be new laws that effectively ban protests etc,and the new expenses inquiry is the vehicle for Cameron to say we need to change our constituition and cut down the number of MPS etc effectively handing complete power to Brussels.


Very interesting times in England.

Seems like many groups are entwined with each other and none are really sure as to what is actually happening.

Division and conquering at its worst / best.


[edit on 11-10-2009 by mr-lizard]



reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 09:57 PM by mr-lizard
reply to post by stevegmu



Suprisingly stereotypes aside these chaps claim not to to be extreme left (anarchists, socialists or communists) and neither do they wish to be affiliated with extreme right wing agenda's such as fascists or nationalists.

So no...

Nothing at all to do with anarchism. Not even slightly.

Did you even watch the video at all? Or did the balaclavas make an instant decision for you?


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 10:14 PM by mr-lizard
Originally posted by stevegmu
Are they affiliated with Anarchists? They look like Anarchists to me.


Aaaah yes Stevegmu. I remember you from the other thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The same thread when you obviously didn't understand anarchism, and here you are not understanding the divisionary factors of politics in the UK.

Ok in the Uk we have the supposed anti-fascists called the UAF (united against fascism) who take it upon themselves to crush free speech and the right to legally protest by allying themselves with either extreme disillusioned left wingers OR hard core Islamicists. The motto 'united against fascism' is ironic considering how fascist they are when refusing to listen to their opponents (who themselves are divided). The UAF are funded in some parts by Labour and also strangely enough have the backing of Tory wannabe David Cameron who represents the conservatives.

On the other side of the ring you have the EDL who claim not to be racist and claim they just don't want Islamic fascism ruining the UK. They claim to have Sikh's, black communities and 'moderate' muslims amongst their numbers. Despite being branded as far right hooligans they are not the ones causing trouble, as the marches they attend are usually gate crashed by the UAF and angry muslims and to an extent disillusioned lefties.

This is not to say hard core right wingers are not amongst the EDL, but in some ways the EDL seem to want to distance themselves from extreme right wing groups such as the BNP and combat 18 and are actively promoting anti-fascims themselves.

So in a nutshell: We have pseudo - labour backed UAF supporters backed by pseudo-conservatives (backed by the mass media) disrupting legal marches with aggresive and violent counter demonstrations against supposed right wing groups who are trying to distance themselves from the extreme right.

Confusing no?


reply posted on 20-3-2010 @ 05:08 PM by logicalview
reply to post by mr-lizard



Ah.... Mr Lizard, one of the more outspoken Englishmen on ATS. People such as Stumason, Freeborn and yourself can really bring a true sense of 'Englishness' to ATS.
This is something that many people in England are 'afraid' to do in todays multicultural Mod Edit - removed attempted bypass of automated censor

In light of today's protests in Bolton i urge all EDL members to keep a level head and remember what you are protesting and ultimately are striving against...... Islamic Extremeism.

I know its hard to keep a cool head when confronted by the likes of the UAF. Please remember to respect the laws of our great country but also keep your purpose true.

The 'people' hear your call and when the time is right 'WE' will prevail.

Regards

[edit on 20/3/10 by logicalview]

Please do not evade the automatic censors

[edit on 22/3/10 by neformore]


reply posted on 20-3-2010 @ 08:46 PM by mr-lizard
Originally posted by logicalview
reply to
post by mr-lizard



Ah.... Mr Lizard, one of the more outspoken Englishmen on ATS. People such as Stumason, Freeborn and yourself can really bring a true sense of 'Englishness' to ATS.
This is something that many people in England are 'afraid' to do in todays multicultural F*ck up.


Thankyou for your kind words.

Although i am trying to remain neutral here, i do not support the EDL, but i am not blinded by the media either.

I can see the good in both the EDL and the UAF, but i also like to see both sides be judged for who they are and not what the media say they are.



reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:05 AM by Freeborn
Originally posted by woodwardjnr

......"muslim bombers off our street",


And just what is wrong with this sentiment?

I suppose you wiull support these murdering scumbags if you are ever unfortunate enough for a member of your family or another loved one becomes a victim of one of their bombings?


"Allah was a Christian".


Never heard that one, he was a murdering paedophile as far as I am aware.

Turning up to rallies bandishing the Israeli flag,


Yeah, don't quite get that myself, suppose it's just a response to the placards that Muslims carry whenever they protest with slogans like 'death to all who oppose Islam' etc, but I've never seen you kick up a #storm about those though, maybe you just conveniently ignore those.

The EDL look to incite violence where ever they hold their marches,


Incorrect!
All the EDL marches have met the legal requirements set down by the Local Authorities.
UAF and SWP have applied to counter protest at all of these marches and been turned down.
The UAF and their associates have subsequently illegally gathered and counter protested.
Police reports ALL say that they have been the aggressors and continually provoked the legally protesting EDL.
UAF have breached Police cordons and subsequently attacked the EDL.
That the EDL reacted to these attacks with more than equal force is undeniable but also understandable.

Initially MSM reported the violence as EDL instigated but were consistently caught out misrepresenting the facts.
As a result MSM now just chooses to ignore EDL marches.

This is on the BBC News website but was not on their front page etc.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Simple searches on youtube will show numerous instances of UAF etc provoking and instigating trouble at EDL marches.

There actions are not good for society and will only drive more young muslim men into extremism.


What is not good for society is a group of people trying to impose their will and their barbaric interpretation of an all controlling religion upon a people who do not want it.
Indeed these people been kind enough to give these immigrants a shelter and a life away from the back water #holeistan they initially came from.

And who truly disgust me are the apologists who continually try to make every excuse possible for the disgusting behaviour shown by these terrorist supporting scumbags who constantly try to peddle their message of hatred.

Woody, you are an intelligent and well meaning person with obvious good intentions but your continued support for these odious people perplexes me.


reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:20 AM by woodwardjnr
reply to post by Freeborn



I'm not going to get into all this again, you know where I stand on this issue, if it perplexes you then i dont think i can really do much more to enlighten you to my opinion. At the end of the day its just my opinion.

I just dont get all the anger and shouty chanting at people, muslims cant help it if a minority of the religion are extremeists.

i've never been one to shout and chant, even at a football match i just sit down read my programme and maybe tuck into a prawn sandwich.

So i am against the football terrace method the EDL use, it's intimidating, especially with their incendary chants in muslim areas, which will ofcourse incite violence.

I dislike the use of the use of the Israeli flag again just shows their ignorace
With redgard to the Muslim protestors, havn't Islam4UK just been banned?and the extremeist muslim protests have no where near the amount of protestors as EDL, about 200 hardcore jobless morons.

Morons on both sides set the agenda as usual.

Woody

[edit on 23-3-2010 by woodwardjnr]


reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:35 AM by Freeborn
reply to post by woodwardjnr



You say you don't get all the shouting, chanting by the EDL yet say nothing of the insulting, degrading chanting performed by the UAF and it's supporters.

You constantly criticise the EDL for one thing then support UAF for exactly the same reasons.

I would hate to accuse you of hypocrisy and rather put it down to having a blinkered, one sided viewpoint.

Again you bring up the use of the Israeli flag yet conveniently ignore the point I made about Muslims consistently bearing illegal, hate filled placards advocating death to all non-Muslims etc.

See the point I made earlier!

You also failed to answer any of the other points I raised in reply to an earlier post of yours.

What's wrong with wanting bombers off our streets?
Why constantly perpetuate the lie that it is the EDL who instigate violence at these protests?
Why support an organisation that wishes to impose a hate filled belief system on a people that don't want it?


reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:58 AM by Freeborn
reply to post by Acidtastic



Nice to see you about Acid, not seen you much recently.

I would like to think that you know me well enough by now to know that ceratinly doesn't sum me up.

I know plenty of EDL members, one is of Indian descent and 4 are either black or mixed race, and I sympathise with their leanings, but none are even remotley similar to the knuckle draggers you describe.

We can only speak as we find.

The EDL asan organisation are not racist, there maybe racists within EDL.

[edit on 23/3/10 by Freeborn]
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