The EDL are not fascists and not racist? (EDL burn nazi flag video), page 1

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Topic started on 11-10-2009 @ 05:42 PM by mr-lizard

Okay so the popular consensus in the UK seem to think that the English defence league are 'fascists' , 'racist', 'ignorant', 'stupid' and consist of thugs.

After much hot debate on this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I decided to have a look and see if i can find anything about them.

Please take a look at this video (below) showing the EDL talking about the erosion of democracy, burning a nazi flag, denying any affiliation with extremist racist groups and how the EDL is not racist. The guy in the video also discusses the UAF 'lies' about the EDL and how the peaceful marches have been disrupted by pro-islamic anti-protestors and also how the UAF (united against fascism) are wrongly associating the EDL with fascism.

He quotes 'there is no place with racism within our organisation'.

You will also note several chaps of mixed race standing with them.

www.youtube.com...

Quite eye opening to say the least.

Any comments?

[edit on 11-10-2009 by mr-lizard]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by mr-lizard]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by mr-lizard]

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 06:05 PM by mr-lizard

I thought this thread might have been popular considering the state of England at the moment with people either not caring or swaying to extremes.

To note: I'm not pro-EDL, i'm fairly neutral.

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 09:42 PM by mr-lizard

www.rexusa.com...

Some pictures of the nazi flag burning.

A rather impartial column in the telegraph

www.telegraph.co.uk...

A rather interesting blog from a leftie who understands the UAF as being over-zealous in its attempts to label the EDL as right wing nazi's.

skepticat.wordpress.com...

And a few more links showing the several sides of the proverbial coin.

manchesteruaf.org...

www.iengage.org.uk...

www.dailyecho.co.uk...

www.thesun.co.uk...

Below is a unity statement issued by Manchester Unite Against Fascism against the English Defence League ahead of their proposed march in Manchester.

“We, the undersigned, strongly oppose plans by the ‘English Defence League’, a group linked to the fascist BNP, to demonstrate in Manchester city centre.

“EDL is a racist group dedicated to attacking Asian people and Muslims. Islamophobia – bigotry against Muslims – is as unacceptable as any other form of racism. Its aim is to divide us by making scapegoats of one community, just as the Nazis did with the Jews in the 1930s.

“Today they threaten the mosque, tomorrow it could a synagogue, temple or church. Today, they threaten Muslims, tomorrow it could be Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, blacks, gays, travellers or Eastern Europeans.

“There is no place for Nazis, racists or the BNP in Manchester’s multi cultural and multi religious community. Come and join the peaceful protest to stop the EDL. Our rally will be held in Piccadilly Gardens, 12 noon, on Saturday, October 10th.”

Signed by:

Greater Manchester Unite Against Fascism
Manchester Trades Council
Muslim Council of Britain
Ruth Kelly MP, Bolton West (Lab)
John Leech MP, Manchester Withington (Lib Dem)
Graham Stringer MP, Manchester Blakely (Lab)
Andrew Gwynne MP, Denton & Reddish (Lab)
Brian Iddon MP, Bolton South East (Lab)
Michael Meacher MP, Oldham West & Royton
Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) has signed the Hope not Hate petition.
Show Racism the Red Card
Manchester Unison Community and Mental Health Branch
Sue Bond, Vice-President, PCS
Chris Morley, Northern Organiser, NUJ
Dave Kennedy, CWU
Neil Thompson, North West Chair, FBU
Mohammed Azam, Oldham
Revd Father Kevin Crinks, Priest-in-Charge of Leigh Parish of St Mary the Virgin
RAPAR (Refugee Asylum Participatory Action Research) - a Manchester human rights organisation working with displaced people.
Revd Jane Barraclough, Cross Street Chapel Unitarian
Revd Richard Church, United Reform Church North-Western Synod

The following organisations also support opposition to the English Defence League in Manchester:

Muslim Jewish Forum of Greater Manchester
Jewish Representative Council of Grater Manchester

and then a reply:

I ve seen somewhere that all the arrests were Muslims and 92% of the UAF/so called anti-fascists were Asians(Muslims) can anyone confirm?

Prediction=Following the Tory landslide Mr Camerons change will be new laws that effectively ban protests etc,and the new expenses inquiry is the vehicle for Cameron to say we need to change our constituition and cut down the number of MPS etc effectively handing complete power to Brussels.

Very interesting times in England.

Seems like many groups are entwined with each other and none are really sure as to what is actually happening.

Division and conquering at its worst / best.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by mr-lizard]

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 09:46 PM by stevegmu

Are they affiliated with Anarchists? They look like Anarchists to me.

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 09:57 PM by mr-lizard

reply to post by stevegmu

Suprisingly stereotypes aside these chaps claim not to to be extreme left (anarchists, socialists or communists) and neither do they wish to be affiliated with extreme right wing agenda's such as fascists or nationalists.

So no...

Nothing at all to do with anarchism. Not even slightly.

Did you even watch the video at all? Or did the balaclavas make an instant decision for you?

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 10:14 PM by mr-lizard

Originally posted by stevegmu
Are they affiliated with Anarchists? They look like Anarchists to me.

Aaaah yes Stevegmu. I remember you from the other thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The same thread when you obviously didn't understand anarchism, and here you are not understanding the divisionary factors of politics in the UK.

Ok in the Uk we have the supposed anti-fascists called the UAF (united against fascism) who take it upon themselves to crush free speech and the right to legally protest by allying themselves with either extreme disillusioned left wingers OR hard core Islamicists. The motto 'united against fascism' is ironic considering how fascist they are when refusing to listen to their opponents (who themselves are divided). The UAF are funded in some parts by Labour and also strangely enough have the backing of Tory wannabe David Cameron who represents the conservatives.

On the other side of the ring you have the EDL who claim not to be racist and claim they just don't want Islamic fascism ruining the UK. They claim to have Sikh's, black communities and 'moderate' muslims amongst their numbers. Despite being branded as far right hooligans they are not the ones causing trouble, as the marches they attend are usually gate crashed by the UAF and angry muslims and to an extent disillusioned lefties.

This is not to say hard core right wingers are not amongst the EDL, but in some ways the EDL seem to want to distance themselves from extreme right wing groups such as the BNP and combat 18 and are actively promoting anti-fascims themselves.

So in a nutshell: We have pseudo - labour backed UAF supporters backed by pseudo-conservatives (backed by the mass media) disrupting legal marches with aggresive and violent counter demonstrations against supposed right wing groups who are trying to distance themselves from the extreme right.

Confusing no?

reply posted on 20-3-2010 @ 05:08 PM by logicalview

reply to post by mr-lizard

Ah.... Mr Lizard, one of the more outspoken Englishmen on ATS. People such as Stumason, Freeborn and yourself can really bring a true sense of 'Englishness' to ATS.
This is something that many people in England are 'afraid' to do in todays multicultural Mod Edit - removed attempted bypass of automated censor

In light of today's protests in Bolton i urge all EDL members to keep a level head and remember what you are protesting and ultimately are striving against...... Islamic Extremeism.

I know its hard to keep a cool head when confronted by the likes of the UAF. Please remember to respect the laws of our great country but also keep your purpose true.

The 'people' hear your call and when the time is right 'WE' will prevail.

Regards

[edit on 20/3/10 by logicalview]

Please do not evade the automatic censors

[edit on 22/3/10 by neformore]

reply posted on 20-3-2010 @ 08:46 PM by mr-lizard

Originally posted by logicalview
reply to post by mr-lizard

Ah.... Mr Lizard, one of the more outspoken Englishmen on ATS. People such as Stumason, Freeborn and yourself can really bring a true sense of 'Englishness' to ATS.
This is something that many people in England are 'afraid' to do in todays multicultural F*ck up.

Thankyou for your kind words.

Although i am trying to remain neutral here, i do not support the EDL, but i am not blinded by the media either.

I can see the good in both the EDL and the UAF, but i also like to see both sides be judged for who they are and not what the media say they are.

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 09:05 AM by March of the Fire Ants

I would love to hear to first hand accounts of yesterdays protests in Bolton, can't seem to find anything reliable on the net! I'm not sure what to make of the situation really, so much BS flying around! I have friends who are involved with opposing the EDL but I've been been reluctant to join them because it all just seems like a puppet show to me.

I think accusations of facism are flung around a bit too much, there will undoubtibly be plenty of EDL members who are in it for apparently noble reasons. The constant communist slurs as seen one the EDL wesite are frankly ludicrous! Anyone remember REDWATCH? A website run by C18 a few years ago, basically listing COMMIES that needed attacking. I know for an absolute fact MANY of the people on these lists just happened to be at some anti-racist music even, to see X band more than anything political. One guy on there is actually passionately racist.

Same old crud from the EDL, just like the BNP have been doing, they are trying to gain public acceptance, to re-define both facism and communism.

So this hung parliment we're likely to get here, how much power will the BNP have? Wouldnt TPTB just love to have some Facist puppets again?!

EDL slagging off commies.

REDWATCH (likely quite offensive, you've been warned)

reply posted on 21-3-2010 @ 10:05 AM by pieman

a group of people talking about how their british heritage should be preserved in the face of a creeping take over by a religious group while wearing balaclavas, where have i seen that before?

fascists and racists are the least of the problems that the EDL represent, they seem to be building links to the UDA, loyalist terrorists in NI, through the UDL. the UDL certainly seem to hold strong loyalist views and the philosophies of the EDL and the UDA seem to gel well together. the problem is, the UDA are fully signed up to the idea of terrorism to fight terrorism.

their MO is to kill civilians in retaliation for attacks, in effect, if there is a muslim extremist terrorist attack in the UK, they would murder muslim civilians in retaliation.

the EDL seem to have wandered into some dangerous territory.

[edit on 21/3/10 by pieman]

reply posted on 22-3-2010 @ 10:22 PM by Kolya

I think it's a little unfair to say UAF "allied with" certain forceful left-wing elements - the latter latched on to the former, in my opinion, which is why the collective effort goes under the UAF instead of Antifa (or similar) banner.

While my response to the EDL's distancing from right-wing appearances would be "Well, they'd HAVE to do that to expect any popular support", I don't particularly think it's the hive of scum and villainy some would portray it as. I've good reason to take as fact that they are perhaps being *led* by people with an ulterior motive and opinion, but that doesn't instantly label each one of them with the same tag.

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 07:15 AM by Laurauk

One supposed it does not help, when the main stream media also portrays the EDL as Racists. One clip I watched on you tube was a father of a Soldier who died in Iraq or Afghanistan being called a nazi from anti fascists protesters, it actually made me sick to my stomach.

Here is a law abiding citizen trying to voice his objection over the Islamic extremist groups, and he is being called a nazi for it.

Absolutely disgusting to say the least.

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 07:33 AM by woodwardjnr

I find the whole thing really ugly and something I would distance myself from at all costs. I know some UK members think the EDL are a force for good in this country and some may even be members. I'm just not having it.

I've seen enough of the EDL to draw my own conclusions.

Congregating outside mosques chanting like football fans "muslim bombers off our street", and "Allah was a Christian". Turning up to rallies bandishing the Israeli flag, to incite muslims. I doubt the guys carrying the flag could locate Israel on a map let alone understand the situation in the middle east.

The EDL look to incite violence where ever they hold their marches, they will admit that themselves. Their actions are not good for society and will only drive more young muslim men into extremism.

Fu*ck the EDL and all who follow them

[edit on 23-3-2010 by woodwardjnr]

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 07:34 AM by Thepreye

The EDL look like chavy racist losers, the people I speak to who like them are not so bright and full of fear, I say no p*k* ever took your job it was given to a Chinaman by a prospective boss cos he could make more dosh out of him than you. Seriously this little immensely rich and powerful speck of a country is in no real danger from the outside but I'd hate to live in a land where the EDL was considered a good thing, brown shirts anyone, they're just a bunch of bullying loons who've lost every fight they've had so I can't even respect their manliness dumb losers.

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 07:39 AM by Thepreye

I saw one EDL chav just before he , and his mates, attacked a police line call a cop woman a P*k* loving *unt they're a proper embarrassment. Every time they go to a multicultural town for a rally they get their arse kicked, is this some strategy because the English love an underdog, nah they're just weak of head and body.

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:05 AM by Freeborn

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

......"muslim bombers off our street",

And just what is wrong with this sentiment?

I suppose you wiull support these murdering scumbags if you are ever unfortunate enough for a member of your family or another loved one becomes a victim of one of their bombings?

"Allah was a Christian".

Never heard that one, he was a murdering paedophile as far as I am aware.

Turning up to rallies bandishing the Israeli flag,

Yeah, don't quite get that myself, suppose it's just a response to the placards that Muslims carry whenever they protest with slogans like 'death to all who oppose Islam' etc, but I've never seen you kick up a #storm about those though, maybe you just conveniently ignore those.

The EDL look to incite violence where ever they hold their marches,

Incorrect!
All the EDL marches have met the legal requirements set down by the Local Authorities.
UAF and SWP have applied to counter protest at all of these marches and been turned down.
The UAF and their associates have subsequently illegally gathered and counter protested.
Police reports ALL say that they have been the aggressors and continually provoked the legally protesting EDL.
UAF have breached Police cordons and subsequently attacked the EDL.
That the EDL reacted to these attacks with more than equal force is undeniable but also understandable.

Initially MSM reported the violence as EDL instigated but were consistently caught out misrepresenting the facts.
As a result MSM now just chooses to ignore EDL marches.

This is on the BBC News website but was not on their front page etc.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Simple searches on youtube will show numerous instances of UAF etc provoking and instigating trouble at EDL marches.

There actions are not good for society and will only drive more young muslim men into extremism.

What is not good for society is a group of people trying to impose their will and their barbaric interpretation of an all controlling religion upon a people who do not want it.
Indeed these people been kind enough to give these immigrants a shelter and a life away from the back water #holeistan they initially came from.

And who truly disgust me are the apologists who continually try to make every excuse possible for the disgusting behaviour shown by these terrorist supporting scumbags who constantly try to peddle their message of hatred.

Woody, you are an intelligent and well meaning person with obvious good intentions but your continued support for these odious people perplexes me.

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:20 AM by woodwardjnr

reply to post by Freeborn

I'm not going to get into all this again, you know where I stand on this issue, if it perplexes you then i dont think i can really do much more to enlighten you to my opinion. At the end of the day its just my opinion.

I just dont get all the anger and shouty chanting at people, muslims cant help it if a minority of the religion are extremeists.

i've never been one to shout and chant, even at a football match i just sit down read my programme and maybe tuck into a prawn sandwich.

So i am against the football terrace method the EDL use, it's intimidating, especially with their incendary chants in muslim areas, which will ofcourse incite violence.

I dislike the use of the use of the Israeli flag again just shows their ignorace
With redgard to the Muslim protestors, havn't Islam4UK just been banned?and the extremeist muslim protests have no where near the amount of protestors as EDL, about 200 hardcore jobless morons.

Morons on both sides set the agenda as usual.

Woody

[edit on 23-3-2010 by woodwardjnr]

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:35 AM by Freeborn

reply to post by woodwardjnr

You say you don't get all the shouting, chanting by the EDL yet say nothing of the insulting, degrading chanting performed by the UAF and it's supporters.

You constantly criticise the EDL for one thing then support UAF for exactly the same reasons.

I would hate to accuse you of hypocrisy and rather put it down to having a blinkered, one sided viewpoint.

Again you bring up the use of the Israeli flag yet conveniently ignore the point I made about Muslims consistently bearing illegal, hate filled placards advocating death to all non-Muslims etc.

See the point I made earlier!

You also failed to answer any of the other points I raised in reply to an earlier post of yours.

What's wrong with wanting bombers off our streets?
Why constantly perpetuate the lie that it is the EDL who instigate violence at these protests?
Why support an organisation that wishes to impose a hate filled belief system on a people that don't want it?

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:50 AM by Acidtastic

I've only ever had 1 experience with EDL followers, and it was an ugly one. I was in a pub in bedfordshire, on my way home from my sisters. (needed the loo, pub was a good place to have a widdle) In this pub, was a load of EDL people, supporting EDL jackets and jumpers. All I heard from them was "paki this" and "paki that" I felt so ashamed to be in the same gene pool as these horrible excuses for "men" . I knew that pointing out that they were being retarded would have been a pointless and rather dangerous thing to do. These idiots are deluded into thinking that the only way to "take back the country" is to boot out all the brown people. That IS what these a$$holes want, and they can glam it up all they like. That's what they want. It IS a rascist organisation, pure and simple.

I have no time for these fools or their "politics" They are what is wrong with the world. In a nutshell.

reply posted on 23-3-2010 @ 08:58 AM by Freeborn

reply to post by Acidtastic

Nice to see you about Acid, not seen you much recently.

I would like to think that you know me well enough by now to know that ceratinly doesn't sum me up.

I know plenty of EDL members, one is of Indian descent and 4 are either black or mixed race, and I sympathise with their leanings, but none are even remotley similar to the knuckle draggers you describe.

We can only speak as we find.

The EDL asan organisation are not racist, there maybe racists within EDL.

[edit on 23/3/10 by Freeborn]

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