To all of you that think that Iran is the big bad wolf.

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by azzllin

 

I think you're misrepresenting a lot of people. I for one don't want war, but don't want Ahmadi to have nukes either.

I don't think you have to worry, the West has no appetite for another war with another Muslim country - too much trouble at home. Iran will probably get their nukes, and we'll have to put up with living under the perpetual threat of another nuclear holocaust for the rest of our lives.

I think we'll look back on the days when the Great Satan ruled the world with a certain nostalgia.

Iran have no nukes and are more than willing to let inspectors in, unlike Israel!
How hard is this to get into your head man?!?
Iran has a civillian nuclear goal to supply electric power, who are we to deny that?

reply to post by mattpryor


they have free elections and many other things, just because they dont live like you do, doesnt mean that it is wrong, keeping a moral control does not equate to freedom but it could be worse, it could be like america, starting wars all across the globe, wouldn't it be terrible if a war starting nation had nukes to hold the rest of the world to ransom, oh wait a minute, they do

I think the real point is that only a fanatic would defend a Nation that is not free, that kills people if they reject Islam, kills people who protest rigged elections, is building nuclear weapons over religious issues and that allows the stoning to death of women over religious issues. To support them is to support those things. Why do people defend that?

Yes Iranians switch to other religions when they live outside of Iran. That is the point is it not. They can not do that and remain in Iran without being killed for their Faith.

I'm both amazed and sickened at the number of people who defend the governments of countries that do not have basic freedoms. To be opposed to basic freedoms is a sick thing. People who support that are propagandists whether they are paid or directly represent Iran or not. It is doubly sick when the person spreading this lives in a free country themselves.

The pictures you should have posted are those of protesters after the election being killed and pictures of women being stoned. You should also mention Iran's direct support of Terrorism.

Do you support the killing of Muslims who quit to join other Faiths or become Atheists?

Do you support the stoning of women over religious issues?

Are you opposed to women having equal rights to men?

Do you support Iran developing nuclear weapons?

Do you support the control of Iran's media by the State?

Do you support Terrorism and Terrorists and Iran's funding and training of them?

Do you consider the West to be the "Great Satan"?

Do you support the rigged elections?

How do you feel about the above issues?

reply to post by THELONIO


They do not have free elections. Did you miss the last one. No freedom of speech. No freedom of the press. You die if you leave the State sponsored religion.

Your feeling on those facts? How do you feel about the stoning of women? The killing of protesters?

Let's skip your rhetoric and go straight to your main points.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you support the killing of Muslims who quit to join other Faiths or become Atheists?

Do you support the stoning of women over religious issues?

Are you opposed to women having equal rights to men?

Do you support Iran developing nuclear weapons?

Do you support the control of Iran's media by the State?

Do you support Terrorism and Terrorists and Iran's funding and training of them?

Do you consider the West to be the "Great Satan"?

Do you support the rigged elections?

How do you feel about the above issues?

Now how about you give a "credible" and "factual" source for each of your claims before I even waste my time.

Let's skip your rhetoric and go straight to your main points.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Do you support the killing of Muslims who quit to join other Faiths or become Atheists?

Do you support the stoning of women over religious issues?

Are you opposed to women having equal rights to men?

Do you support Iran developing nuclear weapons?

Do you support the control of Iran's media by the State?

Do you support Terrorism and Terrorists and Iran's funding and training of them?

Do you consider the West to be the "Great Satan"?

Do you support the rigged elections?

How do you feel about the above issues?

Now how about you give a "credible" and "factual" source for each of your claims before I even waste my time.

Originally posted by john124
I'm sorry, but everything you have said is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that this collapsing regime executed a 17 year old a couple of days ago for protesting. Hundreds of protestors have been raped, then executed - not just girls, it's the boys as well!



[edit on 11-10-2009 by john124]

China does the same thing-where is the outcry over that?

2nd 2nd 2nd

Originally posted by mattpryor
....When Iran has a free press, free elections, stops the anti-Western propaganda and incitement, stops locking up and torturing political opponents, stops training and funding proxy militias, and actually starts positively engaging the world and helping to find solutions, not more problems, then I'll believe that they're nice people who want the best for the region and the world...

Really? Now go back and read what you just said.

OK, now how about we see to it the good 'ol USofA, "...has a free press, free elections, stops the anti-Western propaganda and incitement, stops locking up and torturing political opponents, stops training and funding proxy militias, and actually starts positively engaging the world". Do you understand? We can't see our sin because of the log in our own eye. Wake up!

[edit on 12-10-2009 by romanmel]

reply to post by December_Rain


Considering the number of threads on this topic I'm amazed you have to ask? I'll find some examples as soon as I can as I'm at work. I'm not a Federal Employee so we have to work today. I did not expect to be challenged on something so prevalent in the news. Here is a couple of quick ones for you while I can -

Amnesty International Article -

Zamani is one of more than 100 people currently standing trial before a Tehran Revolutionary Court for fomenting protests against the disputed official result of Iran's 12 June presidential election. Amnesty International has condemned such “show trials” as a “mockery of justice”

On child executions in Iran - (part way down page)

CHILD EXECUTIONS IN IRAN

Iran is one of the only countries left in the world today that still executes children and child offenders (those accused of committing an offense when they were under 18 years of age). At least 137 juvenile offenders face execution, but the total number could be much higher as many death penalty cases in Iran are believed to go unreported. At least eight child offenders were executed in 2007. Iran is the only country in the world known to have executed a juvenile offender in 2008. At least eight juvenile offenders were executed in 2008.

Post Election Protests -

The police and security forces, including the volunteer Basij militia, have used excessive force, including beating with truncheons to end demonstrations. In some cases demonstrators have been shot with live ammunition, The death toll is rising.

On the stoning of women and men.

Iran is the only country in the world that practices stoning to execute those who commit adultery. The misogynous practice is outlined in Iran’s civil code and practiced in public as a method of intimidation and enforcement of moral “Islamic” value. Article 102 of the Penal code, states that married offenders (adulterers) are liable to stoning regardless of their gender, but the method laid down for a man stipulates he be buried up to his waist, and a woman up to her neck. Article 114 of Iran’s civil codes states, “When rajm [stoning] is being administered on a man he must be placed in a pit almost down to his waist, and when administered on a woman she must be placed in a pit almost down to her chest.”2

I won't post videos of women being stoned to death but you can search yourself and find a few. They are done in public and videos have been snuck out to show the world what is going on.

Iran Election Whistleblower Killed...

Iran cuts off cell phones and web sites after elections.

On the death penalty for those who switch from the Muslim Faith.

The Iranian parliament has passed the first reading of a bill that imposes the death penalty on Muslims who convert to another faith. By a vote of 196 to seven, with two abstentions, the Majlis passed the “Islamic Penal Law” bill on Sept 9.

I'll try and get back to you with more as I can.

reply to post by Blaine91555


it is not about how we feel about events in iran, it is none of our business, it is up to the people of iran. mahmoud won the election the same way bush won in 2001, america wants to make everybody subscribe to democracy, but it does not work and is a very corrupt way of election

reply to post by THELONIO


So let me see if I understand this. A pro-Iranian government thread is started which will undoubtedly get some people up in arms. Said people voice their dissenting opinion. Supporters of thread want proof of dissenting opinion, and when it's presented, you cop out by saying how Iran treats it's citizens is none of our business, and on top of it try to turn the argument around on the U.S. who isn't even the subject of the thread? No offense, but that's really, really weak.

reply to post by Blaine91555



Q: Do you support the killing of Muslims who quit to join other Faiths or become Atheists?

A: No.

Q: Do you support the stoning of women over religious issues?

A: No.

Q: Are you opposed to women having equal rights to men?

A: No

Q: Do you support Iran developing nuclear weapons?

A: No, I don't support anyone havin nukes.

Q: Do you support the control of Iran's media by the State?

A: No, neither do I support the government controled media of any other state.

Q: Do you support Terrorism and Terrorists and Iran's funding and training of them?

A: Depending on what you mean with terrorists, some call them freedom fighters. But in general I oppose violence.

Q: Do you consider the West to be the "Great Satan"?

A: No, not more than the east...

Q: Do you support the rigged elections?

A: If they were rigged, no.


Where in the first post do find that I have any of these ideas?
You seem to miss the poin completely, read the thread again and try again.




[edit on 12-10-2009 by SkurkNilsen]

Originally posted by Legion2112
reply to post by THELONIO

 

So let me see if I understand this. A pro-Iranian government thread is started which will undoubtedly get some people up in arms. Said people voice their dissenting opinion. Supporters of thread want proof of dissenting opinion, and when it's presented, you cop out by saying how Iran treats it's citizens is none of our business, and on top of it try to turn the argument around on the U.S. who isn't even the subject of the thread? No offense, but that's really, really weak.

How is this thread "pro-Iranian government? Trying to give a more balanced opinion than the MSM is pro-Iran?
Where is the proof of the dissenting opinion of the OP?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by December_Rain

 

Considering the number of threads on this topic I'm amazed you have to ask?

Exactly the reason why I asked you to link sources for each of your claim because there are number of threads which have already debunked many of your claims.
Now let's see which of your claims you have replied so far;

Originally posted by Blaine91555
a) Do you support the killing of Muslims who quit to join other Faiths or become Atheists?

In support of your this claim...this is the proof you have given.
On the death penalty for those who switch from the Muslim Faith.

The Iranian parliament has passed the first reading of a bill that imposes the death penalty on Muslims who convert to another faith. By a vote of 196 to seven, with two abstentions, the Majlis passed the “Islamic Penal Law” bill on Sept 9.

However, this article further states:

The law, which will now be referred to committee for final drafting and possible amendment, mandates the death penalty for male adult Muslims who convert to another faith.

Meaning the draft was not passed(and still is not a law) when the author wrote the article. Upon researching further it was found that the author was actually talking about" "Proposed Bill for Islamic Penal Law (Penal Code)" which was rejected in Iran to be passed as law and was returned to be redrafted.
Iran rejects death penalty for Muslims who convert: CEN 7.03.09 p 6. July 6, 2009
Thus, your point is now dicredited as you stated it is a law whilst I proved it is not. Just for your reference Article 23 of Iran law states:

Article 23
The investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief.

Source:www.iranonline.com...

Now let's go to your second claim for which you provided a source;

b) Do you support the rigged elections?

Amnesty International Article -

Zamani is one of more than 100 people currently standing trial before a Tehran Revolutionary Court for fomenting protests against the disputed official result of Iran's 12 June presidential election. Amnesty International has condemned such “show trials” as a “mockery of justice”

To reply to this I do not support "any" rigged elections. But it's for Iran people (Iranians) to take up measure for that. Did foreign govts. interfered when Bush was said to be running disctatorship allover the world?
Iran Election Whistleblower Killed...
To respond to your this claim the answer was within that thread itself.

Originally posted by ADMIN X
Uhmmm, your first source is GDP, hardly a site many would consider credible.
The 2nd source is a generic "pedia" source and could have been written by anyone.
At the moment there is nothing backing this story as both sources repeat the same thing.

We will update this article as soon as we get new informations. If you know more about this accident than we currently do, please add it to this site by clicking the edit button above this text.

Besides, this entire Iranian electorial debacle reeks of intelligence agency involvement.
Sounds like propoganda and distraction to me.
[edit on 20-6-2009 by ADMIN X]

Iran cuts off cell phones and web sites after elections.
Not good for happen to anywhere in World. But if I remember correctly it was done when there were wide ranging protests and violence in the city.

Post Election Protests -

The police and security forces, including the volunteer Basij militia, have used excessive force, including beating with truncheons to end demonstrations. In some cases demonstrators have been shot with live ammunition, The death toll is rising.

Again I dont support the violence by govt. or civilians. But you are potraying as if this thing happens only in Iran. Which ofcoure is not true; Few xamples are:
TIMELINE-Violent protests at world summits
or these one too Violent protests greet Bush visit

contd...

c) Do you support the stoning of women over religious issues?

On the stoning of women and men.

Iran is the only country in the world that practices stoning to execute those who commit adultery. The misogynous practice is outlined in Iran’s civil code and practiced in public as a method of intimidation and enforcement of moral “Islamic” value. Article 102 of the Penal code, states that married offenders (adulterers) are liable to stoning regardless of their gender, but the method laid down for a man stipulates he be buried up to his waist, and a woman up to her neck. Article 114 of Iran’s civil codes states, “When rajm [stoning] is being administered on a man he must be placed in a pit almost down to his waist, and when administered on a woman she must be placed in a pit almost down to her chest.”2

Not that I agree with this law but it's a blatant lie Iran is the only country that practices stoning to execute.

* 1 Stoning within present day Islam
o 1.1 Usage today
o 1.2 Pakistan
o 1.3 Afghanistan
o 1.4 Iran
o 1.5 Saudi Arabia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates
o 1.6 Somalia
o 1.7 Nigeria

Source:en.wikipedia.org...
Oh and another country not included is Indonesia.
Source: World's Fourth Largest Country Passes Stoning Law
Also you may be intrested to know the Jewish law Torah also includes stoning to death. Taken from the Wikipedia source

[edit] Torah
The Torah of the Jews, which is contained in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible and as such serves as a common religious reference, prescribes death by stoning for a long series of offenses, namely:
* Touching Mount Sinai while God was giving Moses the Ten Commandments (Exodus 19:13)
* An ox that gores someone to death should be stoned (Exodus 21:28)
* Breaking the Shabbat (Numbers 15:32-36)
* Giving one's "seed" (presumably one's offspring) "to Molech a form of human sacrifice" (Leviticus 20:2-5)
* Having a "familiar spirit" (or being a necromancer) or being a "wizard" (Lev. 20:27)
* Cursing God (Lev. 24:10-16)
* Engaging in idolatry (Deuteronomy 17:2-7) or seducing others to do so (Deut. 13:7-12)
* "Rebellion" against parents in a disgusting way (Deut. 21,21)
* Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman engaged to another man (both should be stoned, Deut. 22:23-24)

On child executions in Iran - (part way down page)

CHILD EXECUTIONS IN IRAN
Iran is one of the only countries left in the world today that still executes children and child offenders (those accused of committing an offense when they were under 18 years of age). At least 137 juvenile offenders face execution, but the total number could be much higher as many death penalty cases in Iran are believed to go unreported. At least eight child offenders were executed in 2007. Iran is the only country in the world known to have executed a juvenile offender in 2008. At least eight juvenile offenders were executed in 2008.

Again I condemn this law but that is a blatant lie Iran is the only country that still executes Child Offenders. After Feb' 2005 when US abolished child executions the juvenile death penalty remains in force in only five countries in the world—China, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Iran, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia. Two other countries who sentenced juveniles for death penalty are Yemen and Pakistan.
Source:www.amnesty.org...
www.amnesty.org... nders-since-1990


So far:
Do you support the killing of Muslims who quit to join other Faiths or become Atheists?
Proved to be not true.

b) Do you support the rigged elections?
No proof for "rigged" elections except media reports.

c) Do you support the stoning of women over religious issues?
Half true, Stoning is law but Iran is not the country alone that practices it as claimed by you and your source.

d) Child executions
Eventhough you did'nt put this claim in your original post I still covered it. Half true - Juvenile execution is carried out in Iran under law but 5 other countries practices that law not Iran alone as claimed by you and your source.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I'll try and get back to you with more as I can.

Please do you still have to provide facts for these below claims:

Are you opposed to women having equal rights to men?

Do you support Iran developing nuclear weapons?

Do you support the control of Iran's media by the State?

Do you support Terrorism and Terrorists and Iran's funding and training of them?

Do you consider the West to be the "Great Satan"?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by john124
I'm sorry, but everything you have said is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that this collapsing regime executed a 17 year old a couple of days ago for protesting. Hundreds of protestors have been raped, then executed - not just girls, it's the boys as well!



[edit on 11-10-2009 by john124]

China does the same thing-where is the outcry over that?

2nd 2nd 2nd

Since this thread is about Iran, I'm going to condemn the Iranian regime here and China gets condemned on a China thread. Happy!

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


A thread who's OP contains photos of nothing but Ahmadinejad smiling and shaking hands as he rubs shoulders with a few members of the jewish minority in Iran ISN'T a pro-government propaganda piece? Sorry, guess I'm jaded by the fact that whenever western politicos are caught doing photo-ops with an opressed minority they're sneered at for vaguely trying to paint themselves and their political party in a better light. Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

Second, I'm not going to copy and paste every post in this thread that disagrees with the notion that Ahmudinejad and the Iranian government aren't beacons of hope because you don't want to scroll up or back a few pages and see for yourself.

Lastly, to your assertion that how the Iranians govern their people isn't any of our business, I would simply ask why then, was this thread started to begin with? I assumed it was on the premise of how Iran's government weren't the big bad wolves they're painted out to be. There are those who disagree to a point and can use as references how that government treats it's own people... since those references are evidence to back up the dissenting opinion of the original post, doesn't that by proxy make it our business as it pertains to this thread? Or is no one allowed to disagree? If so just let me know so I can go find something more enlightening to do with my time.

I came across this by accident, but if this is real and if someone can confirm it then please do. It maybe accused of being a fake video because it is so unreal, Hitler was doing that with the German's the same hypnotic crowd chanting.




I think America should wait a little longer because they have not quite yet put the nukes together yet.



This video has been accused as being a fake, but I doubt it, this is pure mind control of a cult and they are asking for suicide for heaven.



[edit on 12-10-2009 by The time lord]

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
reply to post by SkurkNilsen

 

Great thread!

Everybody seems to forget that Iran have signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty -

Israel have not.

Such an inconvenient truth!!

Thank you.

Here is my reason for opposition to any military action regarding IRAN.

Don't Do It, Mr. President, by Ron Paul Before the U.S. House of Representatives February 6, 2007 It's a bad idea.

There's no need for it.

There's great danger in doing it.

America is against it, and Congress should be.

The United Nations is against it.

The Russians, the Chinese, the Indians, and the Pakistanis are against it.

The whole world is against it.

Our allies are against it.

Our enemies are against it.

The Arabs are against it.

The Europeans are against it.

The Muslims are against it.

We don't need to do this. The threat is overblown.

The plan is an hysterical reaction to a problem that does not yet exist.

Hysteria is never a good basis for foreign policy. Don't we ever learn?

Have we already forgotten Iraq? The plan defies common sense.

If it's carried out, the Middle East, and possibly the world, will explode.

Oil will soar to over $100 a barrel, and gasoline will be over $5 a gallon.

Despite what some think, it won't serve the interests of Israel. Besides � it's illegal.

It's unconstitutional.

And you have no moral authority to do it.

We don't need it.

We don't want it.

So, Mr. President, don't do it. Don't bomb Iran!

The moral of the story, Mr. Speaker, is this: if you don't have a nuke, we'll threaten to attack you.

If you do have a nuke, we'll leave you alone. In fact, we'll probably subsidize you. What makes us think Iran does not understand this? February 14, 2007

Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

And this is my Exclamation mark: