Originally posted by neformore
But if you really want a challenge - and to experience "hate" try going on any other English speaking forum that doesn't have a T&C like ATS and telling someone you are Chinese, French, Russian or British and expressing a strong opinion about the world. The replies you recieve will not be pleasant.

I can't reiterate or vouch for this point enough. I've been accessing the internet since 1997 and this has been my experience throughout on most international English-speaking forums. Given the nature of this thread and comments elsewhere, it's an incredible irony that practically all the "hate" has always come from Americans.

Also, I think it's actually getting worse too as forums that have traditionally been British-based have slowly become saturated with American posters, often echoing the very same sentiments mentioned above. A lot of British newspaper sites seem to have gone this way over the last 12 months.

It sounds (at least to me) as though some wish for censorship when anyone has an opinion about negative American Foreign Policy, American Leadership or wants to comment on American Culture in general.

This is a discussion forum, and the idea of limiting discussion because it debates some aspects of American culture or government in a specific way is not acceptable to me. We all have the freedom not to read, not to comment, or to do so with and knee-jerk response. It's then the turn of another poster to argue against it or in support of it. That is what discussion is about.

Maybe people should be asking why there isn't much condemnation of other cultures here? Why are there not similar discussions about China or Japan? Why are we not negatively discussing Russia in the same way?

Personally, I believe it comes down to influence. America has spent the last thirty years invading every nation on Earth through media, culture, business, finance... The largest corporation on the planet are American brands.
Bush spent a good few years dragging most other countries through two wars. And it was based on lies, which we now ALL know.
Then the irresponsible actions of American Corporate greed brought the world to its knees through a financial crisis.
Then the world had hope once Obama was elected, and what has he really done?

America put itself out there as a global leader, it should expect criticism where criticism is due.
Such power and leadership comes with immense responsibilities. And I feel we'll be having the same discussions when China or Russia become the next global leader.

Regardless, leave people alone to debate and discuss. If you don't like a discussion you don't have to read or comment do you?

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Given the nature of this thread and comments elsewhere, it's an incredible irony that practically all the "hate" has always come from Americans.

Hate knows no nationality, no boundries and has no rules. I think it's a broad assumption on your part to claim that practically "all" the hate has always come from Americans.

Originally posted by alyosha1981

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Given the nature of this thread and comments elsewhere, it's an incredible irony that practically all the "hate" has always come from Americans.

Hate knows no nationality, no boundries and has no rules. I think it's a broad assumption on your part to claim that practically "all" the hate has always come from Americans.

I actually think it's you making the assumptions here! How do you know my internet experience? I'm talking about the "hate" I experience personally about the English, the British, Europeans and so on. Most Americans are very up-front about where they are from when given the opportunity to state their origin*. Or do you believe there's a huge swathe of the internet population that are, for some bizarre reason, merely pretending to be Americans?

Is that what this thread has got to? "Lay off the anti-America jibes and a lot of the ant-everywhere else comments are made by people pretending to be Americans!"


*Apart from when backpackers where Canadian flags on their backpacks of course.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Merriman Weir]

Originally posted by detachedindividual

This is a discussion forum, and the idea of limiting discussion because it debates some aspects of American culture or government in a specific way is not acceptable to me. We all have the freedom not to read, not to comment, or to do so with and knee-jerk response. It's then the turn of another poster to argue against it or in support of it. That is what discussion is about.

I am all for discussion, just in a civil manner without the childish namecalling and hateful undertones that I have seen on the boards lately. I respect others opinions as I would like my own respected.

Regardless, leave people alone to debate and discuss. If you don't like a discussion you don't have to read or comment do you?

I'm not hindering anyone's debate or discussion in any way only calling for a less hateful approach.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by alyosha1981]

It's a bit rich to complain about anti-US sentiment when so much of the forum is composed of US threads and US contributors. I've seen many decent non US members give up on ATS altogether because in recent years, certainly since the end of 2007, ATS has been swamped by all things American.

And that's great, in a way, for ATS. New members, new blood, always a good thing. But it's been to the exclusion of every other nation. ATS now gives the impression, wrongly, that it's an exclusively US website. Some of its contributors share that sense of entitlement ... our President, our soldiers, our this, our that. It grates. Some of us enter US threads with trepidation ; we'll either be flame grilled and bar-B-cued because of some historical slight committed by our own nations way back ... or routinely ignored. Non US doesn't count, to some.

Non-US thread titles are routinely amended by the Mods to tailor things to the US audience ... "Speaker Resigns" becomes "British House of Commons Speaker Resigns" ... but US threads go unamended, there's no thought to the many thousands of ATS members outside the USA ... perhaps there doesn't need to be, perhaps we're more worldly wise than our US equivalents.

From the Anglosphere there's so few threads about Australian, Canadian, British or New Zealand politics, next to nothing from Africa or English speaking former UK colonies in the far east. European content on ATS is negligible despite a high percentage of Europeans speaking English as a second language.

Perhaps the OP would rather non-US members didn't contribute to US threads at all. Or perhaps create more of our own to balance out the mix ... although the latter is rather like preaching to an empty church. I'd rather though the OP looked at ATS objectively and realise that the US has just about gotton a monopoly of the place lately ... and alos to give us a few ideas as to how the balance may be restored.

Originally posted by alyosha1981

I am all for discussion, just in a civil manner without the childish namecalling and hateful undertones that I have seen on the boards lately. I respect others opinions as I would like my own respected.

I'm confused by this. I keep seeing you use terms like "lately". Whilst I gather you've had an account for less than a year, I don't know whether you'd lurked for any length of time as I had before you signed-up. The actual level of antagonism isn't new by any means. The only thing that is new is that feelings towards America are now going some way to matching the feelings espoused towards the rest of the world by Americans. That's the only difference.

As myself and other posters have suggested, you want to wear someone else's shoes for a while and see how it feels from this end.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

As myself and other posters have suggested, you want to wear someone else's shoes for a while and see how it feels from this end.

I did lurk for some time before joining now that you mention it, I'm just reffering to lately as I feel the general tone has taken a downward turn and addresable within this timeframe. In other words, I can't make observations of anything I noticed years ago and sugguest recourse. I would walk in other's shoes and in a way I do, humbly through empathy I do realize the plight of others as bes as I can. For that reason I make in the direction of ending the hate and dissenting comments and ideals as a whole.

FWIW, the American moderators moved my thread on "USA Declares WAR on Moon" to BTS within a nanosecond of it being posted. I call that American bias.

What if I were to say something like "America starts wars on false pretenses"?

All I have done is state a FACT that is critical of America - not hatred but FACT. I would immediately be branded a USA-Hater and set upon by many American's telling me Australia did this and that wrong and that the USA is so very good because you did this or helped that country. This is not only ignorance but also hypocritical deflection. Not only have they immediately put me in a basket they then fire their own shots at me - completely deflecting attention away from the topic at hand which was that America starts wars on false pretenses.

This has happened to me repeatedly on ATS alone, let alone other forums. I do not see this sort of behaviour coming from posters from ANY other country except America.