Too much anti U.S sentiment and "anti" period

Originally posted by neformore
But if you really want a challenge - and to experience "hate" try going on any other English speaking forum that doesn't have a T&C like ATS and telling someone you are Chinese, French, Russian or British and expressing a strong opinion about the world. The replies you recieve will not be pleasant.

I can't reiterate or vouch for this point enough. I've been accessing the internet since 1997 and this has been my experience throughout on most international English-speaking forums. Given the nature of this thread and comments elsewhere, it's an incredible irony that practically all the "hate" has always come from Americans.

Also, I think it's actually getting worse too as forums that have traditionally been British-based have slowly become saturated with American posters, often echoing the very same sentiments mentioned above. A lot of British newspaper sites seem to have gone this way over the last 12 months.

It sounds (at least to me) as though some wish for censorship when anyone has an opinion about negative American Foreign Policy, American Leadership or wants to comment on American Culture in general.

This is a discussion forum, and the idea of limiting discussion because it debates some aspects of American culture or government in a specific way is not acceptable to me. We all have the freedom not to read, not to comment, or to do so with and knee-jerk response. It's then the turn of another poster to argue against it or in support of it. That is what discussion is about.

Maybe people should be asking why there isn't much condemnation of other cultures here? Why are there not similar discussions about China or Japan? Why are we not negatively discussing Russia in the same way?

Personally, I believe it comes down to influence. America has spent the last thirty years invading every nation on Earth through media, culture, business, finance... The largest corporation on the planet are American brands.
Bush spent a good few years dragging most other countries through two wars. And it was based on lies, which we now ALL know.
Then the irresponsible actions of American Corporate greed brought the world to its knees through a financial crisis.
Then the world had hope once Obama was elected, and what has he really done?

America put itself out there as a global leader, it should expect criticism where criticism is due.
Such power and leadership comes with immense responsibilities. And I feel we'll be having the same discussions when China or Russia become the next global leader.

Regardless, leave people alone to debate and discuss. If you don't like a discussion you don't have to read or comment do you?

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Given the nature of this thread and comments elsewhere, it's an incredible irony that practically all the "hate" has always come from Americans.

Hate knows no nationality, no boundries and has no rules. I think it's a broad assumption on your part to claim that practically "all" the hate has always come from Americans.

Originally posted by alyosha1981

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Given the nature of this thread and comments elsewhere, it's an incredible irony that practically all the "hate" has always come from Americans.

Hate knows no nationality, no boundries and has no rules. I think it's a broad assumption on your part to claim that practically "all" the hate has always come from Americans.

I actually think it's you making the assumptions here! How do you know my internet experience? I'm talking about the "hate" I experience personally about the English, the British, Europeans and so on. Most Americans are very up-front about where they are from when given the opportunity to state their origin*. Or do you believe there's a huge swathe of the internet population that are, for some bizarre reason, merely pretending to be Americans?

Is that what this thread has got to? "Lay off the anti-America jibes and a lot of the ant-everywhere else comments are made by people pretending to be Americans!"


*Apart from when backpackers where Canadian flags on their backpacks of course.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Merriman Weir]

Originally posted by detachedindividual

This is a discussion forum, and the idea of limiting discussion because it debates some aspects of American culture or government in a specific way is not acceptable to me. We all have the freedom not to read, not to comment, or to do so with and knee-jerk response. It's then the turn of another poster to argue against it or in support of it. That is what discussion is about.

I am all for discussion, just in a civil manner without the childish namecalling and hateful undertones that I have seen on the boards lately. I respect others opinions as I would like my own respected.

Regardless, leave people alone to debate and discuss. If you don't like a discussion you don't have to read or comment do you?

I'm not hindering anyone's debate or discussion in any way only calling for a less hateful approach.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by alyosha1981]

reply to post by Merriman Weir


I was not calling into question your internet experience and I appoligise if I came off that way at all. In addition I did not presume any "pretend" Americans on this or any forum (although I don't discount it) I respect your opinion I was mearly pointing out a very general assumption on your part, that was stating "practically all of the hate comes from Americans".

reply to post by alyosha1981


How is one supposed to criticise America without having a million of you swarming on us like ants blindly protecting a nest? Doesn't matter how delicate we put it, you lot are far too sensitive and defensive and blow it WAY out of proportion.

[edit on 11/10/2009 by Kryties]

It's a bit rich to complain about anti-US sentiment when so much of the forum is composed of US threads and US contributors. I've seen many decent non US members give up on ATS altogether because in recent years, certainly since the end of 2007, ATS has been swamped by all things American.

And that's great, in a way, for ATS. New members, new blood, always a good thing. But it's been to the exclusion of every other nation. ATS now gives the impression, wrongly, that it's an exclusively US website. Some of its contributors share that sense of entitlement ... our President, our soldiers, our this, our that. It grates. Some of us enter US threads with trepidation ; we'll either be flame grilled and bar-B-cued because of some historical slight committed by our own nations way back ... or routinely ignored. Non US doesn't count, to some.

Non-US thread titles are routinely amended by the Mods to tailor things to the US audience ... "Speaker Resigns" becomes "British House of Commons Speaker Resigns" ... but US threads go unamended, there's no thought to the many thousands of ATS members outside the USA ... perhaps there doesn't need to be, perhaps we're more worldly wise than our US equivalents.

From the Anglosphere there's so few threads about Australian, Canadian, British or New Zealand politics, next to nothing from Africa or English speaking former UK colonies in the far east. European content on ATS is negligible despite a high percentage of Europeans speaking English as a second language.

Perhaps the OP would rather non-US members didn't contribute to US threads at all. Or perhaps create more of our own to balance out the mix ... although the latter is rather like preaching to an empty church. I'd rather though the OP looked at ATS objectively and realise that the US has just about gotton a monopoly of the place lately ... and alos to give us a few ideas as to how the balance may be restored.

Originally posted by alyosha1981

I am all for discussion, just in a civil manner without the childish namecalling and hateful undertones that I have seen on the boards lately. I respect others opinions as I would like my own respected.

I'm confused by this. I keep seeing you use terms like "lately". Whilst I gather you've had an account for less than a year, I don't know whether you'd lurked for any length of time as I had before you signed-up. The actual level of antagonism isn't new by any means. The only thing that is new is that feelings towards America are now going some way to matching the feelings espoused towards the rest of the world by Americans. That's the only difference.

As myself and other posters have suggested, you want to wear someone else's shoes for a while and see how it feels from this end.

reply to post by Kryties


Again a very general and overtly broad view. If you make blanket statements then you can continue to expect the "ant" response that you have given us. Although I don't know if it's fair to compare American's to ants, I don't believe we have a hive mentality and I'm not sure if that's even a common belief of people from elseware about Americans.

Originally posted by alyosha1981
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

I was not calling into question your internet experience and I appoligise if I came off that way at all. In addition I did not presume any "pretend" Americans on this or any forum (although I don't discount it) I respect your opinion I was mearly pointing out a very general assumption on your part, that was stating "practically all of the hate comes from Americans".

I was actually being specific to my own experiences and I genuinely thought I'd made that clear in my post. My semi-facetious point about 'pretend Americans' was only made in light of trying make sense of and bridge the gap between the point I was actually making and your response to it. The reality is that I wasn't making a "very general assumption" at all. I was actually talking about where practically all the anti-English, anti-British and anti-European "hate" had originated from. It's not an assumption when posters are, in one way or another, actually telling you where they are from!

reply to post by Copernicus

I have to agree entirely on this Copernicus, It is a world wide issue the way America acts and has been treating other countries, however negative or 'anti' it may be, its the truth of the situation.. no not all Americans back their government still, but with their blatent 'we are the best' arrogance, they really are asking for a load of negativity directed at them.. I do agree however that the baiting isnt needed, neither is out and out animosity, but it remains a topic that should be discussed as it really does affect the world in its entirety..

reply to post by Ulala


The hatred tends to lean more to the direction of America, although I have seen plenty going in other directions to this end I sugguest a more responsible aproach by all when dealing with these topics that would tend to flair tempers. I am not in any way sugguesting the limitation of threads with focus on countries or topics other then American.

I enjoy the fact that ATS embraces people's ideas from every corner of the globe.

reply to post by alyosha1981


How else would you describe it? Within 2 posts of my first post in this very thread we had someone come in spouting patriotic and demeaning crap. You yourself are generalising when you say "Anti-American" because you do not define a difference between actual criticism and hatred.

You have also deflected away from the question that I asked, being that how is one supposed to criticise America without being branded a USA-Hater?

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

As myself and other posters have suggested, you want to wear someone else's shoes for a while and see how it feels from this end.

I did lurk for some time before joining now that you mention it, I'm just reffering to lately as I feel the general tone has taken a downward turn and addresable within this timeframe. In other words, I can't make observations of anything I noticed years ago and sugguest recourse. I would walk in other's shoes and in a way I do, humbly through empathy I do realize the plight of others as bes as I can. For that reason I make in the direction of ending the hate and dissenting comments and ideals as a whole.

reply to post by Copernicus


I totally agree and take it one step further. Americans VOTE in their President and their Senators who represent them into the annuls of power so the buck stops with every voting American. I hold everyone in America personally responsible for the stuff their government does because i know one thing, there is noone outside of America who would ever have voted for the likes of Bush. The world shakes their head at nice normal American voting publics preferences for leadership at times.

So no, you are all responsible, make no mistake about that. You all get the leader you deserve and you get the policies you allow. Quite simple. So when the world says to America "What were you thinking!!", sometimes you just have to look within.

At which point did America think it was a good idea to hurl big heavy bomb stuff at a planet that did not have USA written on it?? Hurl anything you like at your own country but start ruining the Universe with these ignorant concepts of ecology, then you will have to stand up and be ready to answer.

FWIW, the American moderators moved my thread on "USA Declares WAR on Moon" to BTS within a nanosecond of it being posted. I call that American bias.

What if I were to say something like "America starts wars on false pretenses"?

All I have done is state a FACT that is critical of America - not hatred but FACT. I would immediately be branded a USA-Hater and set upon by many American's telling me Australia did this and that wrong and that the USA is so very good because you did this or helped that country. This is not only ignorance but also hypocritical deflection. Not only have they immediately put me in a basket they then fire their own shots at me - completely deflecting attention away from the topic at hand which was that America starts wars on false pretenses.

This has happened to me repeatedly on ATS alone, let alone other forums. I do not see this sort of behaviour coming from posters from ANY other country except America.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by alyosha1981

 

How else would you describe it? Within 2 posts of my first post in this very thread we had someone come in spouting patriotic and demeaning crap. You yourself are generalising when you say "Anti-American" because you do not define a difference between actual criticism and hatred.

You have also deflected away from the question that I asked, being that how is one supposed to criticise America without being branded a USA-Hater?

Sorry I was not attempting to deflect in any way. Constructive criticisim can be easy to seperate from the destructive critisim that tends to float to the surface. Heavy with solutions along with identifing problems Constructive critisim tends to sink to the bottom while the numorous "down with America" as well as other countries comments and the like become the forefront and spotted right away.

I would like to see less condesending threads started when questioning any country or their activites. Opinion is great but often tempers flair and then out comes the "guns" Emotional and rational comments are two different things, the latter being the most benificial when debating.

Originally posted by Kryties
What if I were to say something like "America starts wars on false pretenses"?

All I have done is state a FACT that is critical of America - not hatred but FACT. I would immediately be branded a USA-Hater and set upon by many American's telling me Australia did this and that wrong and that the USA is so very good because you did this or helped that country. This is not only ignorance but also hypocritical deflection. Not only have they immediately put me in a basket they then fire their own shots at me - completely deflecting attention away from the topic at hand which was that America starts wars on false pretenses.

This has happened to me repeatedly on ATS alone, let alone other forums. I do not see this sort of behaviour coming from posters from ANY other country except America.

The topic you give here (title only) would generate many different responces running the gambit I would guess. Now depending on the way in wich you presented the body of the topic would determine in what way you were "labelled" as such if you were say factual and in a non condesending or threatning way I would be willing to bet a weighty amount of actual productive responses.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by alyosha1981]

reply to post by Ulala


Couldn't agree more, well said!