Where is the aclu when you need them, page 1

www.wnd.com...
This well educated 10 year old christian girl is being forced from home schooling into public school because she defends her faith. We don't do that to Jewish or Muslim folks. America has lost the battle for democracy and is now in the battle to be Marxist or Nazi. We are the sheep we call ourselves. Too many have their hand out for the government to help/save them. Which side will you be on?

Or is there another side to choose from?
In 1905 the courts said the government can have mandatory vaccinations.
Some people wonder:
If there is any gold in Ft. Knox. Who killed Kennedy & why. Who brought down the Twin Towers & why. Who caused the economic collapse we are facing now. Why did the CIA create al-qaeda. What will happen to me when I refuse the swine flu shot.

reply to post by Doctor G

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Edit: former comments removed.

It's a dispute between two parents, this does not seem like discrimination. Rather a case of one guardian wants it one way, the other wants it another.

Nothing wrong there.


[edit on 10-10-2009 by Miraj]

reply to post by sisgood

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guardian ad litem just means the parent gave this person the right to make gaurdian decisions wrt the minor in this action alone, without giving them full guardianship rights.

aka: a lawyer representing a gaurdian. it is common in divorce and custody disputes.

at the age of 10, most children are just learning algebraic ideas, learning to read and comprehend what is written, and learning about insects and such.

so we are supposed to say that if my ex wants my son to follow catholic beliefs that i have to allow it?

someone in 4th grade obviously has enough world experience and spiritual understanding to make that decision on their own!! of course!!

Originally posted by wx4caster
reply to post by sisgood

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guardian ad litem just means the parent gave this person the right to make gaurdian decisions wrt the minor in this action alone, without giving them full guardianship rights.

aka: a lawyer representing a gaurdian. it is common in divorce and custody disputes.

at the age of 10, most children are just learning algebraic ideas, learning to read and comprehend what is written, and learning about insects and such.

so we are supposed to say that if my ex wants my son to follow catholic beliefs that i have to allow it?

someone in 4th grade obviously has enough world experience and spiritual understanding to make that decision on their own!! of course!!

The parent didn't give the guardian any rights, the guardian was appointed by the court. In this case--the parents agree on the religion, the guardian doesn't.

A guardian ad litem usually is appointed for a minor in a court case if there is a possibility that the child's interest is not the same as the parents.

I'm not a religious person, but I think this is a bad case, unless the religious beliefs are such as to harm the child.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady

The ACLU is as liberal as they get, hates everything Christian...

Truer words were never spoken.

Errr...no.
Yes, the ACLU supports separation of church and state. But it also defends religious groups on free speech and religious liberty grounds.

here's a partial list of religious discrimination cases they have taken:
midtopia.blogspot.com...

reply to post by wx4caster

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Actually, if your son decides at 10 years old that he wants to be a Catholic... he should have that right. If he was 5... well... But 10 year-olds can be surprisingly smart. If his mother, when she has custody of him decides to take him to church... that is her right.
If you, when you have custody of him decide to take him to an origins of man museum... that is your right.

The father's job, in this case should be to present those "other views" to his daughter... not to force her to attend public school.

I do not know what the condition of the schools is there but the pubic schools I was zoned for are awful. Only 65% of students there graduate.
I was a reading tutor for some of those kids and... @_@

My parents sacrificed a lot to send me to a good private school... and yes, it was Christian.


[edit on 11-10-2009 by sisgood]

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady

The ACLU is as liberal as they get, hates everything Christian...

Truer words were never spoken.

Errr...no.
Yes, the ACLU supports separation of church and state. But it also defends religious groups on free speech and religious liberty grounds.

here's a partial list of religious discrimination cases they have taken:
midtopia.blogspot.com...

...I'm impressed. I retract my earlier statement.
Starred you.

Originally posted by sisgood
reply to post by wx4caster

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Actually, if your son decides at 10 years old that he wants to be a Catholic... he should have that right. If he was 5... well... But 10 year-olds can be surprisingly smart. If his mother, when she has custody of him decides to take him to church... that is her right.
If you, when you have custody of him decide to take him to an origins of man museum... that is your right.

The father's job, in this case should be to present those "other views" to his daughter... not to force her to attend public school.

I do not know what the condition of the schools is there but the pubic schools I was zoned for are awful. Only 65% of students there graduate.
I was a reading tutor for some of those kids and... @_@

My parents sacrificed a lot to send me to a good private school... and yes, it was Christian.


[edit on 11-10-2009 by sisgood]

if my son at 10 years old decides he wants to be a catholic i will let him learn about it without allowing anyone not even his mother to shelter him from other spiritual experiences.

you stated that 5 is too young but not 10? perhaps you would tell us what the difference between 5 and 10 is that makes it ok for them to decide on a spirituality? that way we can have a basis for debate

Originally posted by sisgood
AThe ACLU is as liberal as they get

(2007-10-04) — The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) today offered free legal services to defend talk radio host Rush Limbaugh, whose civil rights, the ACLU contends, “are in jeopardy from powerful officials in the U.S. government.”

www.scrappleface.com...

The American Civil Liberties Union] in recent months has turned a small band of street preachers into unlikely symbols of free speech — fighting, sometimes in noisy confrontations with police and casinos, for the preachers' right to spread the gospel on the Las Vegas Strip.

atheism.about.com...

The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit on behalf of the Kansas based hate group lead by Fred Phelps. The group got its start protesting funerals of gays and lesbians.

takemassaction.blogspot.com...

[edit on 10/11/2009 by clay2 baraka]

Originally posted by infolurker
The ACLU "DEFENDING" Christianity??? Are you nuts?

These are the same people trying to remove crosses from freeking cemetaries While fighting for Muslim prayer in prisons. This organization will not help you unless you are trying to sue to "remove" or "ban" something that is Christian.

REALLY?

You are simply uninformed. Do your own research and stop taking the word of talk show hosts and blogs at face value.

ACLU Fights For Christian Inmate's Right to Preach

ACLU of Northern California Fights Law that Got Quakers Fired Over Loyalty Oath

ACLU Defends Christian Librarian Disciplined for Refusing to Promote Harry Potter

ACLU Defends Right of Individual Christian to Display Nativity Scene on Public Property

ACLU Defends Christians Protesting Gay Rights in Florida

ACLU Champions Religious Freedom Of Mormon College Student

ACLU Fights for Christian Church's Mission to Feed the Poor

ACLU Fights for Christmas Tree

ACLU Files Suit to Protect Free Speech Rights of Christian Protesting Wal-Mart's Policy on Gays

ACLU of Georgia and Baptist Church File Religious Discrimination Lawsuit

ACLU of Rhode Island Files Appeal on Behalf of Christian Prisoner Barred from Preaching at Religious Services

ACLU of Michigan Defends Catholic Man Coerced to Convert to Pentecostal Faith in Drug Rehab Program

ACLU of New Jersey Joins Lawsuit Supporting Second-Grader's Right to Sing "Awesome God" at Talent Show

After ACLU Intervention on Behalf of Christian Valedictorian, Michigan High School Agrees to Stop Censoring Religious Yearbook Entries

ACLU Helps Free New Mexico Street Preacher From Prison

ACLU of WA Wins Right of Christian Minister to Preach in Spokane Plaza

ACLU Fights for Baptist Preacher in Illinois

ACLU Defends Rights of Christian Group to Make Religious Protest at Funerals

ACLU Backs Christian Abortion Protester in Ohio

ACLU of Oregon Defends Religious Liberty Of Adventist School Boys Basketball Players

ACLU Backs Missouri Nurse Penalized for Wearing Cross-Shaped Lapel Pin

ACLU Defends Christian Street Preacher in Las Vegas

ACLU Argues for Legal Recognition of Small Christian Church

ACLU of MA Defends Students Punished for Distributing Candy Canes with Religious Messages

ACLU of Nebraska Defends Church Facing Eviction by the City of Lincoln

ACLU Defends Church's Right to Run "Anti-Santa" Ads in Boston Subways

ACLU Defends Inmate's Access to Material from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Following Threat of ACLU of Virginia Lawsuit, Officials to Agree Not to Ban Baptisms in Public Parks

ACLU Defends Families Fighting Removal Of Religious Symbols from Florida Cemetery

ACLU Supports Right of Iowa Students to Distribute Christian Literature at School

ACLU Argument In Support of the Display of a Christian Cross in a Public Forum

ACLU Defends Christian Worker Required to Remove Bible from Desk at Government Job

ACLU Defends Free Speech Rights of Christians And Others On Main Street Plaza

ACLU Defends Prisoner's Rosary Beads

ACLU Defends Christian Group's Anti-Abortion Ads On Phoenix Buses

ACLU Pledges to Back Church in a Zoning Battle

ACLU of PA Files Discrimination Lawsuit Over Denial of Zoning Permit for African American Baptist Church

ACLU Offers To Represent Private Prayer on Public Property and

ACLU Joins Falwell To Fight For Church Incorporation Rights

SOURCE

[edit on 10/11/2009 by clay2 baraka]

reply to post by wx4caster

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you stated that 5 is too young but not 10? perhaps you would tell us what the difference between 5 and 10 is that makes it ok for them to decide on a spirituality? that way we can have a basis for debate

Because a five year old is completely unable to think in the abstract. In child development, a child does not begin to take the first steps into abstract thinking until they are at least six or seven.

Here's the proof

Originally posted by sisgood
reply to post by wx4caster

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you stated that 5 is too young but not 10? perhaps you would tell us what the difference between 5 and 10 is that makes it ok for them to decide on a spirituality? that way we can have a basis for debate

Because a five year old is completely unable to think in the abstract. In child development, a child does not begin to take the first steps into abstract thinking until they are at least six or seven.

Here's the proof

paiget was also outdated in the 70's, and claims that 10 year olds are in the class to begin to reason 3+4=7 and 7-4=3

Characteristic Behavior:
Evidence for organized, logical thought. There is the ability to perform multiple classification tasks, order objects in a logical sequence, and comprehend the principle of conservation. thinking becomes less transductive and less egocentric. The child is capable of concrete problem-solving.
Some reversibility now possible (quantities moved can be restored such as in arithmetic:
3+4 = 7 and 7-4 = 3, etc.)

Class logic-finding bases to sort unlike objects into logical groups where previously it was on superficial perceived attribute such as color. Categorical labels such as "number" or animal" now available.

found here

my point is that there is more than logical reasoning and abstrac thought involved with the idea of children devoting to spirituality. it takes very adult ideas and everyday decisions to do this.

kids are... KIDS. there is enough pain and suffering awaiting them in adulthood. let them be kids for the fleeting 15 or so years that they get before being thrown into the fire of life.

reply to post by clay2 baraka

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Top Ten Myths About The ACLU
www.stoptheaclu.com...



www.stoptheaclu.com...


Sorry, as stated before the ACLU has a "few" cases (which even they provide a link document for) to attempt to "prove" they are not biased but it is a joke. The "SOURCE" you provided is from who... "An ACLU Attorney". Here is his facebook: www.facebook.com...

They will spout off token cases where the ACLU veered from its normal path of hostility toward Christian religious expression to defend free speech. They have a handful of cases they try to convince us with. However, the ACLU’s history can easily be looked at and the cases against religious expression far outweigh these token cases. If the ACLU were consistent in its positions on religious liberty despite the religion their defense on the issue would be much easier. However, many cases point out that it isn’t religion in general the ACLU fight, but the Christian religion in particular.

For the ACLU to trumpet their defense of religious liberty is kind of like an arsonist having burnt down a house and being shocked at the lack of appreciation from the homeowners when he returns to shine the doorknobs. Something the ACLU does regularly to “prove” that they aren’t anti-Christian fascists is to direct people to a document they’ve compiled that they seem to think will convince Americans otherwise. Nice little propaganda piece for the unwashed masses, but it’s really nothing more than an old Baldwin-esque diversion to give the appearance of “aid[ing] the reactionaries to get free speech now and then” in order to advance the REAL agenda.

You’d think that with the tens of thousands cases the ACLU has litigated (they claim 6,000 per year), and with the First Amendment supposedly being their “bread and butter,” they’d have hundereds of cases to point to.

www.stoptheaclu.com...

aclu.procon.org...

"The ACLU is not anti-religion, just anti-Christian. By definition, it's the American Civil Liberties Union. By action, it has become the Abolishing Christian Legacy Union.

The ACLU will assure Muslim clerics and imams the right to pray on planes, fight for an atheist's rights to remove a cross, stand beside pro-abortionists, help illegal aliens cross our borders, and establish rights for the sexual deviant by forming the ACLU Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Project, but what is it doing for Christians and Christmas censorship?

While allegedly fighting against the tyranny of the majority, the ACLU itself rules religiously by litigation, lobbying, and supporting counter-culture Christian movements. So who died and appointed the ACLU as America's religious constitutional watchdog? Membership for the ACLU is only 500,000. America's population is 300 million. I think it's time that we helped them feel their size!

I suggest the rest of us follow the passion of Thomas Jefferson, who spoke these words that are etched on the very wall of his memorial in Washington, D.C.: 'I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.'"

Dec. 11, 2006 - Chuck Norris

[edit on 11-10-2009 by infolurker]

reply to post by wx4caster

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I made a decision when I was seven related to religious beliefs. I reaffirmed that decision as an adult.

I have a huge problem with people believing that seven is too young to make a decision like that. I lived many years doubting myself and my faith because of well-meaning speakers.

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