Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
It's about time this was stopped. Look i'm all for religious freedom but when it results in the death of a person i think it needs to be prevented. Religion has absolutely no place in medicine or medicial decisions. If the person whos life is in danger decides themselves then that's fine, if they're underage and the parents are making the decision then absolutely not!

Absolutely. I wholeheartedly agree with you there. Its a shame this happens....

I just don't get how society sees this as acceptable. The parents gave this child a death sentence. They will of course claim that god decided to kill the child and it was his time, yeah at two years old that's his time . My original point remains though, if god really, really wanted this child dead then surely he wouldn't fear doctors? If god can make the univferse then i'm pretty sure he can counter man made medicine and make sure the child dies anyway.

So why not just take the kid to a hospital and let god work against the doctors? No parent has the right, religious or not to hand a death sentence to their child!

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I just don't get how society sees this as acceptable. The parents gave this child a death sentence. They will of course claim that god decided to kill the child and it was his time, yeah at two years old that's his time . My original point remains though, if god really, really wanted this child dead then surely he wouldn't fear doctors? If god can make the univferse then i'm pretty sure he can counter man made medicine and make sure the child dies anyway.

So why not just take the kid to a hospital and let god work against the doctors? No parent has the right, religious or not to hand a death sentence to their child!

Some would say that the parents being incompetent was in God's plan for this child. I'm not defending what they did, only observing that in life you have inevitibilities that neither you or I can change.

I fully believe that the course of the Universe was decided at its conception, and any decisions we seem to make are mere illusions. Does that mean people shouldn't be held accountable for their misdeeds? Of course it doesn't. We may be mere actors in a play that was written at the dawn of time, but for the sake of our sanity we must play our roles like finely trained thespians.

[edit on 10/10/2009 by LiquidLight]

Originally posted by LiquidLight
Some would say that the parents being incompetent was in God's plan for this child. I'm not defending what they did, only observing that in life you have inevitibilities that neither you or I can change.

However if the parents were made examples of then i'm willing to bet you'd see a lot less of this happening, which kind of points to it being simple ignorance and nothing to do with gods plan.

Originally posted by LiquidLight
I fully believe that the course of the Universe was decided at its conception, and any decisions we seem to make are mere illusions. Does that mean people shouldn't be held accountable for their misdeeds? Of course it doesn't. We may be mere actors in a play that was written at the dawn of time, but for the sake of our sanity we must play our roles like finely trained thespians.

That is the biggest cop out of all time. Quite simply yes, if everything is planned out, every nuance of our destiny then these parents should be set free as they were mere automatons and it is not their fault. However such thinking is illogical and without proof, therefore once again we must blame the parents for their actions. They decided not to get medical treatment when the child was very unwell, that is not excusable. The child could not get help himself, he was to young.

Not helping a child in such a situation is murder, or at the very least man slaughter.

With all of our technology we are still living in an age of superstition and lies.

Those who are in power could have done something to stop this, but it has been too financially lucrative for them. Faith healing tent meetings and charlatans who promote this nonsense bring in a lot of business for the local towns.


When you have the whole damn senate spending a day to "honor" people like Oral Roberts and throw a big whooteedo for him...giving him awards and such....well, I just wonder when Benny Hinn will get his day, too.

Blame those who sell out truth for cash.

Blame those who make a living on lies.

Blame those who turn their heads to evil because it is profitable.

Come on guys, cant we leave the weaker alone to die or do we have to perpetually protect them from themselves. After all the more restrictions we have to put on others to protect themselves from themselves, the more of your freedoms will be taken also.

So we stop a baby death, but did we stop the continuation of a set of human DNA that would be best left alone?

I am a believer in Christ (Far from ur typical) but I do not discount the fact that nature has a way of keeping things in line and if we keep on nurturing the weak, we all become weak.

Originally posted by budro
Come on guys, cant we leave the weaker alone to die or do we have to perpetually protect them from themselves.

So we stop a baby death, but did we stop the continuation of a set of human DNA that would be best left alone?

I am a believer in Christ (Far from ur typical) but I do not discount the fact that nature has a way of keeping things in line and if we keep on nurturing the weak, we all become weak.

I hope all the readers are getting a good look at todays version of christianity and religious dominionism.

Ah yes, "survival of the fittest". Xtian superiority.


I do not claim to be a christian, however, I do believe that Jesus taught we should lift our brothers, and yes, protect them, too.

Oh, I guess I would be tied to a certain set of ideas because of that statement. The powerless church with fake healers, snake oil salesman, and fornicatin preachers.

No I don't prescribe to that.

Cases like this are.. complex.

I personally think that these people did everything wrong for their child.

But they don't. Which means that they were incapable of making a decision for their child. Due to their religion.

So if the state acts does it then become: Religious discrimination (because this is what the parent wishes for their child based on religion. or is it the state protecting an individual.


I'd go with the govt. acting in the interests of the welfare of the child.

However since they were incompetent in this case, is it OK to prosecute them for a decision that they were unable to make?

With modern medicine this boy could have easily lived. It seems sad to me.

Are you all on the same sight as I or is this the government’s version?

Do you not realize that you are asking the government to do your dirty work so you can feel better about yourself?

Yeah that’s right, we don’t need no education ....duh duh dut duht dut dut duh dut duht dut ....thought control....another brick in the woll.

Had this family been under enough surveillance to prevent this from happening we would be living under the most suppressive dictatorship the planet has ever seen.

With your beating heart are you implying that we should have weekly, daily maybe, check ins with our masters, I mean local social organizer, so we can make sure everyone is healthy, accounted for and ready for duty?

No, I thinks you should get of your rear and make sure you know the names, first and last, of every person in your reach. Know their job, parents, kids, problems, pleasures and pain.

Maybe some one could have talked some since in to them? If not, let em go, you’ve done your part, you cant help every one.

Jesus didn’t heal everybody why do we think we can?

…….Oh please big brother, come keep me safe and make sure those people over there are doing right, I don’t need no trouble……..

Grow a pair! Fresh out? Ive got extra

I think that the State's interest in protecting individuals takes priority over religious freedoms. For example, we don't allow human sacrifice, even though some religions require it. We don't permit underage marriage, though again some religions permit it. There are limits beyond which society will not let religion step.

Allowing a child to die through neglect of medical treatment is similar in some ways to a human sacrifice. Sure, no one stuck the child with a knife. They just let God decide whether to take the child. But this child could probably have been saved. I mean, wasn't Luke a physician, for crying out loud? How can one of the authors of the Gospels be a physician, yet God doesn't want us to go to doctors?

Anyway, if your faith is so strong that you are willing to let your child die because of it, it should be strong enough to see you through your prison term. Put your kid on the altar, put several years of your life on the altar along with him. It's easy to be brave with someone else's life or suffering. Not such an easy task, when you're the one that suffers.

Sadly I just watched on TV here in oz, about a family that fled to El Salvador to prevent their 8 yr old daughter from receiving chemo for a rare liver disease.

Due to their religion they refuse to treat it with anything apart from some stupid herbal remedy. This poor girl is going to die an extremely slow and agoninsing death...not to mention frightening as she fights for oxygen as the cancer slowly shuts down her lungs.

What a waste of precious life. I cant understand the way of thinking of someone that values their Christian faith over the life of their children



[edit on 11/10/2009 by OzWeatherman]

Darwin smiles, the rest of us just shake our head.

Fundies believe the lie of death panels that don't exist and that's bad, but they also believe the lie of a sky daddy that doesn't exist and let their babies die on his whim and that's good.

Welcome to Palin Country.

Yeah lets all go shoot wolves from a helicopter and read our bibles.

All of this was inevitible to prove that god does not exist. Welcome to reality its a pitty so many are left mentaly disfigured from the ignorant notion of a magical genie granting wishes.

Originally posted by Miraj
Cases like this are.. complex.

I personally think that these people did everything wrong for their child.

But they don't. Which means that they were incapable of making a decision for their child. Due to their religion.

So if the state acts does it then become: Religious discrimination (because this is what the parent wishes for their child based on religion. or is it the state protecting an individual.


I'd go with the govt. acting in the interests of the welfare of the child.

However since they were incompetent in this case, is it OK to prosecute them for a decision that they were unable to make?

With modern medicine this boy could have easily lived. It seems sad to me.

Excellent point. I don't think the government has the right to interfere in anyones beliefs. But when said beliefs pose a threat to a child... all bets are off. Believe what you want, just don't expect to be allowed to endanger your kids life and claim it as a right.