This is your paranoid gun culture...

Apparently, this was a horribly tragic accident.

It hardly matters though.

When you're a leftist, it's just grist for the mill.

How about our rabid car culture?

Man, that's a really fecund topic.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Apparently, this was a horribly tragic accident.

It hardly matters though.

When you're a leftist, it's just grist for the mill.

How about our rabid car culture?

Man, that's a really fecund topic.

Your analogy is pretty poor.

A car is a tool used to transport people and goods. A car can be used in many ways that are beneficial as far as moving things. If a car is used improperly it can cause injury or death.

A gun is a tool used to cause injury or death. If a gun is used improperly it can cause injury or death. If a gun is used properly it can cause injury or death.

You are on to something though...far too many unqualified people are allowed to operate both.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Your analogy is pretty poor.

A car is a tool used to transport people and goods.

A gun is a tool used to cause injury or death.

The analogy is apt, depending on one's ability to abstract and one's knowledge of the function and purpose of firearms.

A firearm is a tool that is used to harvest food, protect one's self and others from predators, and also provides recreation.

Both the car and the firearm can be misused, but both can be used for good.

Oh, cars kill far more often in our country than guns do.

In 2006, there were more than 42,000 automobile deaths in the US. In the same year there were more than 30,000 gun deaths in the US.



Both figures are tragic, but it should be even more alarming that a product that is not intended to "cause injury or death" kills so many.

I guess we could also discuss the drug-abuse culture which destroys lives, but has no positive social benefit whatsoever.




[edit on 2009/10/10 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


I know that cars kill more people. If you were paying attention, I am not a big fan of idiot drivers either. Your analogy is not apt. Everything you listed a gun being for is still the result of injury or death. That is what a gun is for. Do not try and twist it. There is no other purpose for a gun but to injure or cause death. I think it is wonderful that you can pretend guns have some other noble purpose but the truth is, guns are made to injure or cause death. That is what they are for. That is what they are designed to do. That is why they are made.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Who are you accusing of being a 'leftist'?

Is anybody who does not follow your outdated view on life and politics a leftist?

You by declaring yourself a 'rightist', as you just did by your comment, you have no credibility in my book, you're a follower with a head full of other peoples ideas.

Left and right are both irrelevant terms that only succeed in pigeon holing opinions and dividing us along unnecessary lines.

I'm right, left, neither, and everything in between. In other words I'm Human, and will not allow my thoughts to be bound by other peoples ideas, labels, and restrictions.


Edit; Oh btw I mentioned cars also, of course I understand that guns are not the only danger, but the thread is about guns, you want to talk about the ravages of cars start another thread. Maybe in that auto forum you wanted?

[edit on 10/10/2009 by ANOK]

reply to post by Lillydale


In a concrete, reductionist analysis you are correct, but you will note in my last post, I spoke of abstractions.

The OP states that the woman who was tragically killed by her fiancé, was killed because of our paranoid gun culture, when actually she was killed by accident.

The OP doesn't allude to any other factors that might have caused the poor man in question to be frightened during the night like living in a neighborhood where home invasions have occurred or simply, where the crime rate is high. He alleges that since the woman was killed by a gun, she must be a victim of something sinister like the paranoid gun culture.

Guns are made to kill and injure, but not senselessly or by accident. That is why we have gun training and certain laws that require training and why we have organizations such as the NRA.

My reference to autos is apt because if the OP is going to fault a supposed culture because people misuse a tool, then perhaps that standard should be extended to other misused tools, such as cars.

You see, this is what I mean by drawing abstractions.

[edit on 2009/10/10 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by ANOK


It is the left who for more than half a century has been using the misfortune of others to make make a case for infringing on the Second Amendment.

If you are not among that number then the statement was not directed at you.

Rudy Giuliani calls himself a Republican and he has used this ploy as well.

The tactic is equally disingenuous and reprehensible regardless of who uses it.

[edit on 2009/10/10 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by ANOK
Training should be a no brainer. Is it too easy to own a gun, much like it's too easy to own a drivers license?

That is it right there. I am not sure that anything should ever be banned but there should definitely be tighter restrictions on who can have certain things. Idiots that shoot at any noise downstairs without at least checking to see if your bed is empty are a good example.

Definitely should have licenses to operate personal computers also. The requirements to get a PC license should be very strict.

I think the guy in the OP just gave some sort of excuse. Thought she was in bed? Cmon.

Half of all gun deaths in the US(about 30k per year now) are suicides. That leaves about 15k actual deaths. Thats only twice as much who die from things like aspirin.

Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600

Footnote from that stat: (1996): "Each year, use of NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs) accounts for an estimated 7,600 deaths and 76,000 hospitalizations in the United States." (NSAIDs include aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, diclofenac, ketoprofen, and tiaprofenic acid.)

So now you need more strict drivers licensing so that when you drive down to your local pharmacy you can whip out your license to buy over the counter drugs. Which also, should be very strict.

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by GradyPhilpott

 

I know that cars kill more people. If you were paying attention, I am not a big fan of idiot drivers either. Your analogy is not apt. Everything you listed a gun being for is still the result of injury or death. That is what a gun is for. Do not try and twist it. There is no other purpose for a gun but to injure or cause death. I think it is wonderful that you can pretend guns have some other noble purpose but the truth is, guns are made to injure or cause death. That is what they are for. That is what they are designed to do. That is why they are made.

Target shooting.

Maybe cars should have been invented solely to kill since theyre better at it.

reply to post by Lillydale


Yes, that's why weapons are made. Whether it is a gun, knife, axe, or a pointy stick. They all can be used for killing. Killing another human when you are left with no other choice, killing another animal for food/shelter/clothing, even killing plants for food/shelter/clothing. I don't make any bones about it, myself. I am ex-military. I don't 'target practice', I practice killing. I don't buy a gun for recreation since they are not toys. Toys are for recreation, guns are for killing. Anybody that says differently are just kidding themselves.

The guy is a Class A idiot, and should be punished as an example to others if anything.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

The analogy is apt, depending on one's ability to abstract and one's knowledge of the function and purpose of firearms.

A firearm is a tool that is used to harvest food, protect one's self and others from predators, and also provides recreation.

Both the car and the firearm can be misused, but both can be used for good.

Oh, cars kill far more often in our country than guns do.

In 2006, there were more than 42,000 automobile deaths in the US. In the same year there were more than 30,000 gun deaths in the US.



Both figures are tragic, but it should be even more alarming that a product that is not intended to "cause injury or death" kills so many.

I guess we could also discuss the drug-abuse culture which destroys lives, but has no positive social benefit whatsoever.

Autos win by a mile for killing since half of that 30k gun deaths are suicides.

No you cant discuss the drug abuse culture a)because you are wrong and b)youd be way off topic. The big pharma companies produce all kinds of drugs that are probably more abused than any illegal drugs, yet medicine still has a positive social benefit.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by watcher73]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by watcher73]

The guy screwed up and didn't check to see what was going on before he fired the gun, that's not paranoid gun culture, that's stupidity.
The gun control pundits will nonetheless spin this story to be yet another fire arm related tragedy, but what's really disgusting to me is that if he had killed her with a baseball bat, this wouldn't have made the news guys.

Yes it's stupidity, but without the paranoia the guy would not have been so quick to shoot without thinking imo, that is my point. The media and it's overly hyped 'news' is creating the paranoia that idiots like this guy fall for and then act on.

The world is full of idiots and we can't control what they all do, but are we creating an atmosphere that perpetuates and exaggerates stupid behavior?

You know though, I bet there is not ONE single person alive on planet Earth who has not done something stupid...

And Grady quit already, we're not buying your twisted logic. Because cars kill people, then guns are OK? So by your logic if guns are OK then I should be able to own a 500lb guided bomb or two, the media has conditioned me to be prepared to be invaded any second by Islam/Gangs/Drug dealers/Termites, I need to protect myself and all my possessions...

Originally posted by watcher73


Target shooting.

Maybe cars should have been invented solely to kill since theyre better at it.

Target shooting is practice.

It is the practice of causing injury or death. Do not kid yourself.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
Toys are for recreation, guns are for killing. Anybody that says differently are just kidding themselves.

Really? You should share this with other posters that seem to think that guns have all kinds of other purposes.

Originally posted by watcher73

Definitely should have licenses to operate personal computers also. The requirements to get a PC license should be very strict.

Why? When is the last time someone killed someone because they were using a computer properly or improperly?

I think the guy in the OP just gave some sort of excuse. Thought she was in bed? Cmon.

Huh? I am not even sure what you are trying to get at there.

Half of all gun deaths in the US(about 30k per year now) are suicides. That leaves about 15k actual deaths. Thats only twice as much who die from things like aspirin.

Medications are not toys either but they are also not designed to kill or cause injury are they?

So now you need more strict drivers licensing so that when you drive down to your local pharmacy you can whip out your license to buy over the counter drugs. Which also, should be very strict.

You keep pretending all these other things were also designed to kill and cause injury. Sorry but Aspirin was designed to do many good things along with being an anti-inflammatory. Cars were designed to transport. Guns are designed to kill or cause injury. Please, give up.

[edit on 10/11/09 by Lillydale]

[edit on 10/11/09 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by ANOK
Police: Man Kills Fiancee On Eve Of Wedding...

www.wmur.com...

He thought he had an intruder, he shot the intruder.

The intruder was his fiance, he was about to marry the next day.

Don't get me wrong I feel for the guy, I can't imagine the hell he's going through right now. But is this a sign of a country driven to complete paranoia?

The gun lovers will no doubt claim that the guns are not the problem but rather that the fiance should have carried one too so she could have defended herself.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Weapons are not the problem, humans are.

I'm not following you. Do you intend to say that guns have a completely different purpose than the one that most of us has came to understand they have?

Originally posted by Dramey
theres simply more to the story than meets the eye

and again this wasnt a gun that killed someone, it was a person who killed someone

Surely the gun was of great help in the act, don't you think?

We shall very soon see.

Many rabid American gun owners claim guns reduce crime and keep everyone safe.

When law and order, and the economy, in the US completely breaks down, one of two things will happen.

1/ Nobody will get shot dead, because guns reduce crime, and keep everyone safe.

2/ There is going to be an absolute blood bath in America.

I am just very glad I will be on the other side of the world when TSHTF in America.