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Once Again, The Will of the Voters Is Denied

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posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by jthomas
I have asked her to support her claim and she refuses. Now, Jezus, step up to the plate and tell us how Lillydale knows that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon."


Jezus, I just wanted to let you know he has already tried this trick when he was cornered before. He began telling people that they need to prove how I know something. It amazes me people like this are even allowed to interact with the outside world.


When you claim that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon," you are obligated to demonstrate it or retract it.

Since you have now - finally retracted your claim because you knew you couldn't support it, there is no point in trying to weasel out of it, is there, Lillydale?




posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:38 AM
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All of what evidence?

1. The security video from the Pentagon DOES NOT show a 757.

2. There are no FBI/NTSB reports mathcing parts found to AA77.

3. I have yet to see any photos and sources of all the parts found that the official story and people like you keep refering to.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by jthomas
I have asked her to support her claim and she refuses. Now, Jezus, step up to the plate and tell us how Lillydale knows that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon."


Jezus, I just wanted to let you know he has already tried this trick when he was cornered before. He began telling people that they need to prove how I know something. It amazes me people like this are even allowed to interact with the outside world.


When you claim that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon," you are obligated to demonstrate it or retract it.

Since you have now - finally retracted your claim because you knew you couldn't support it, there is no point in trying to weasel out of it, is there, Lillydale?




Weasel out of it????? I retracted it. It is over. What else do you want?

BACK UP YOUR CLAIM OR ADMIT YOU CANNOT. LIVE UP TO YOUR OWN STANDARDS OR BE A COWARD, LIAR, AND HYPOCRITE. It is up to you. I say you have nothing to back up your claims so you want to concentrate on my claim that I have already retracted. Give it up, John.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 



If these guys where in the interview room they would not be let go.

I just hate the thought of having to waste my time going back and forth with them.

Thank you foe keeping hope alive for a lot of people.

We will keep looking for the truth.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by jthomas
 


OK J, I am not Lilly. I have made no claims. You have nothing on me.

You have made some rather outragous sounding claims. You insist that people back up their claims. When are you going to back up yours? Do not try to argue about Lilly with me either. We already saw that trick. I am asking you for your proof.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by PHIXER2

Originally posted by jthomas
Now, your next obligation is to refute all of the evidence demonstrating that AA77 hit the Pentagon.


All of what evidence?

1. The security video from the Pentagon DOES NOT show a 757.


One does not need a video - any video - to know AA77 hit the Pentagon. Only Truthers have to deny that none of the massive evidence demonstrating AA77 hit the Pentagon exists.


2. There are no FBI/NTSB reports mathcing parts found to AA77.


First, as with videos, one does not serial numbers to KNOW which aircraft crashed. Your illogical strawman has been shot down repeatedly. Secondly, you have no knowledge, any more than Lillydale does to claim "no passenger bodies were at the Pentagon," to claim there are no FBI reports, or any other reports, that recorded serial numbers.


3. I have yet to see any photos and sources of all the parts found that the official story and people like you keep refering to.


I refer to evidence, not "stories". What you haven't seen is completely irrelevant as the massive evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon is available to you. That you 9/11 "Truthers" have to deny there is that evidence is just one reason you have marginalized yourselves and earned the title of what you really are: 9/11 Deniers.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by jthomas
 


What evidence??????

You keep mentioning it but you have yet to share it with us.

Are you going to show us the evidence or keep harping on something I have already taken back?

Say evidence about 40 more times without showing us what it is.

p.s. yes, you do need serial numbers because that is standard operating procedure in every plane crash. Most of the time, they already know exactly what plane it is but they still have to check the parts to make sure there was no alterations to the plane or something anomalous. They did not do that this one time. It is important because there is no good reason not to do it. Do not tell me it is because they knew what plane it was. They usually know what plane it is.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by jthomas
One does not need a video - any video - to know AA77 hit the Pentagon. Only Truthers have to deny that none of the massive evidence demonstrating AA77 hit the Pentagon exists.


You are so wrong, you know nothing about crime scene investigatons involving aircraft.


First, as with videos, one does not serial numbers to KNOW which aircraft crashed. Your illogical strawman has been shot down repeatedly. Secondly, you have no knowledge, any more than Lillydale does to claim "no passenger bodies were at the Pentagon," to claim there are no FBI reports, or any other reports, that recorded serial numbers.


Again you know nothing about crime scene investigations. Second please show me the FBI crime scene reports or admit you have no real evidence that AA77 hit the pentagon.


I refer to evidence, not "stories". What you haven't seen is completely irrelevant as the massive evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon is available to you.


WHAT EVIDNENCE, YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT BUT CAN NEVER SHOW IT?

[edit on 17-10-2009 by PHIXER2]



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Bumped to try to get an answer


I refer to evidence, not "stories". What you haven't seen is completely irrelevant as the massive evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon is available to you.


WHAT EVIDENCE, YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT BUT CAN NEVER SHOW IT?


[edit on 17-10-2009 by PHIXER2]



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by samhouston1886
reply to post by jthomas
 


I have to be frank.

I am a trained investigator and I have to tell you that I really doubt your sincerity.


How can I believe you are a trained investigator when you denounce those of us fighting the claims of those right here in this thread claiming that AA77 did not hit the Pentagon or that there is "no evidence for that." Have you even BOTHERED to read the posts here? Have you taken one step to denounce the claims of those 9/11 Deniers? Are you going to tell that to the 8,000 people involved at the Pentagon in the aftermath of 9/11, that they were deluded into thinking AA77 crashed into the Pentagon?


]You see we have people like Ray McGovern, Sibel Edmond's, Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Shaffer, Robert M. Bowman, Robert Baer, just to name a few saying that there is a CONSPIRACY and then we have you saying that they are all wrong.


The fact that you actually believe those people despite the fact that they have been repeatedly debunked - and rationally so - tells me that you have been sucked into the woo and chosen not to think critically.


I have my own experience yet you claim to know better, I am wrong you imply.


Show me just how your own "experience" leads you to accept the propositions from Truthers here that AA 77 did not hit the Pentagon or their claims that they haven't seen any evidence for that. Do you actually expect rational people to accept that you are a "trained investigator?"


I have met with and spoken to a few of the people mentioned and you are saying. no I am right .. they are wrong.

Can you see how silly it looks on my end?


Truthers think reason and evidence is silly all the time. People who haven't done any work to understand the nonsense from people like Bowman and McGovern are not taken seriously by those of us who fight 9/11 Denial.


You really would have to be sick in the head to think anyone with common sense would side with you.


You've just confirmed to me that you are a 9/11 Truther, ready and willing to give up reason and critical thinking.


The point is you, cannoli and all the "debunkers" who come from the stock of men like troy from West Virginia can really just push off, I will not apologize and I stand by what I said.


Then don't be surprised why I cannot take you seriously or accept that you are a "trained investigator."


Unless hounding us and gloating about the cover up is part of your job description.


You give yourself away too easily. You had a choice in coming here to insult me hiding behind a claim that you are "trained investigator" only to confirm, in reality, that you don't like we skeptics who expose the unsupported claims and politically-motivated denial of you 9/11 Deniers.

While I fight for truth and reason and AGAINST the insults of your 9/11 Denial Movement to the families of the victims, you can insult me all you want. Or you can put me on ignore to keep out the truth.

And now we have NYCCAN's new propaganda piece to motivate you to open your wallet in even more often.

Don't bother replying unless you apologize for your crass insult.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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Bumped to try to get an answer


I refer to evidence, not "stories". What you haven't seen is completely irrelevant as the massive evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon is available to you.


WHAT EVIDENCE, YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT BUT CAN NEVER SHOW IT?



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by jthomas
 


What evidence??????

You keep mentioning it but you have yet to share it with us.

Are you going to show us the evidence or keep harping on something I have already taken back?

Say evidence about 40 more times without showing us what it is.

p.s. yes, you do need serial numbers because that is standard operating procedure in every plane crash. Most of the time, they already know exactly what plane it is but they still have to check the parts to make sure there was no alterations to the plane or something anomalous. They did not do that this one time. It is important because there is no good reason not to do it. Do not tell me it is because they knew what plane it was. They usually know what plane it is.


Hi Lilly,

The serial numbers are not there. Period.

Flight 93 was tracked on radar from deperture to impact. There were eyewitnesses to this plane crash. DNA for ALL passengers were found and identified. Personal belongings were found at the scene. This is evidence. Aircraft remains were found. This is evidence. CVR was discovered and victims families listened to it. This is evidence. Phone calls were made to loved ones for extended amounts of time. This is evidence.

Flight 77 FDR was found and data was recovered. On the FDR, Including flight data on the doomed flight, data was recovered that showed the previous flight. This is evidence.

DNA was matched from remains found at the Pentagon from all but I believe one passenger. This is evidence.

Personal belongings were found and returned. This is evidence.

Eyewitnesses stating that they saw "AMERICAN AIRLINES" on the plane. This is evidence.

I mean, this list goes on and on. What JT is asking is for you to refute what is there.

You have to prove the FDR was faked / planted
You have to prove that the CVR was faked/ planted
You have to prove that the phone calls were faked
You have to prove that the eyewitnesses lied or were mistaken.
You have to prove that the DNA was faked or planted.

Until you can PROVE something sinister took place, you have nothing. This is why the TM has been stalled since 2006.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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posted by samhouston1886
reply to post by jthomas
 


Unless hounding us and gloating about the cover up is part of your job description.



Well you really nailed it this time samhouston.




posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by ImAPepper

You have to prove the FDR was faked / planted
You have to prove that the CVR was faked/ planted
You have to prove that the phone calls were faked
You have to prove that the eyewitnesses lied or were mistaken.
You have to prove that the DNA was faked or planted.

Until you can PROVE something sinister took place, you have nothing. This is why the TM has been stalled since 2006.


There are no official FBI/NTSB reports matching parts found to any of the9/11 planes.

In fact the official FBI/NTSB reports have not been released so you have no actual facts an evidence of what happened.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by PHIXER2]



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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posted by jthomas
Now, your next obligation is to refute all of the evidence demonstrating that AA77 hit the Pentagon.


posted by PHIXER2

All of what evidence?

1. The security video from the Pentagon DOES NOT show a 757.

2. There are no FBI/NTSB reports mathcing parts found to AA77.

3. I have yet to see any photos and sources of all the parts found that the official story and people like you keep refering to.



And there you have it right on the money PHIXER2. The only official evidence concerning the 9-11 attack on the Pentagon which jthomas is correct about. Ain't that a hoot; wrong about everything else?

The security videos and leaked still frames do not show any aircraft hitting the Pentagon.


posted by jthomas

Isn't it interesting that I have never claimed that the "security camera video shows any aircraft hitting the Pentagon." Just so we're clear about that, I want you to show everyone here any post I have made on any forum in which I have said that the security camera video shows anything hitting the Pentagon.

If you can't do that, then you will issue a public retraction right here, correct? What's that, you can't? C'mon, be a sport, just try.


In fact, as we rational people have said for years, one cannot conclude by looking at the security camera video that anything hit the Pentagon.



United States v Zacarias Moussaoui Show Trial LEAKED Parking Lot Still Frames

jthomas Photoshopping Incorporated - Images in jthomas avatar read plane and impact



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by SPreston
posted by jthomas[/url]

Isn't it interesting that I have never claimed that the "security camera video shows any aircraft hitting the Pentagon." Just so we're clear about that, I want you to show everyone here any post I have made on any forum in which I have said that the security camera video shows anything hitting the Pentagon.


Problem is that most people like you who still believe the offical story think they do see a 757 in the video becasue thats what they have been told.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by PHIXER2


There are no official FBI/NTSB reports matching parts found to any of the9/11 planes.

In fact the official FBI/NTSB reports have not been released so you have no actual facts an evidence of what happened.



"PHIXER",

I suggest you look a little harder. NSTB has released all FDR data on all 4 flights. They have also released the CVR trascripts for flight 93.

FBI have released their "PENTABOM" reports.

Try google. It works wonders.

Thank you,

Dr. P



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by ImAPepper
"PHIXER",

I suggest you look a little harder. NSTB has released all FDR data on all 4 flights. They have also released the CVR trascripts for flight 93.



Please read my post again as many times asit takes for you to understand.

The FBI/NTSB crime scene reports have not been released, so you have no actual facts and evidence of what happened only theories.


[edit on 17-10-2009 by PHIXER2]



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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posted by PHIXER2

There are no official FBI/NTSB reports matching parts found to any of the9/11 planes.

In fact the official FBI/NTSB reports have not been released so you have no actual facts an evidence of what happened.



posted by ImAPepper

"PHIXER",

I suggest you look a little harder. NSTB has released all FDR data on all 4 flights. They have also released the CVR trascripts for flight 93.

FBI have released their "PENTABOM" reports.



You are so wrong Dr P. In fact this alleged Flight 77 part from a 757 at the Pentagon is never mentioned in any official 9-11 report. There is only one photo of this alleged part in existence, and it was photographed by a US Congresswoman on September 13th 2001.



So where is the official report on this alleged part? Officially exactly what is it and which wing is it from? Or is it from somewhere else or some other aircraft model? Could you cough up the official report for this object from your vast sources? Why no other photos of this alleged piece of Flight 77 aircraft debris when it supposedly sat out there in the open in front of the Pentagon for days?

Well I am assuming it was sitting out there for days since it was supposed to be deposited there at 9:37 am on 9-11-2001. Of course since it appears on no other known photos, then maybe it was carried in surreptitiously and planted on the 12th or 13th?

Why no serial number? Was this alleged 757 piece deliberately planted there solely for the visit of a US Congresswoman on September 13th? Is that why it is not mentioned elsewhere with no other photos?

So why can't we get a new 9-11 investigation? Why can't NYCCAN get a new 9-11 investigation? If some of the 9-11 Whitewash Commission members admit publicly that they were set up to fail, they why are all you 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY defenders so dead set against a new 9-11 investigation?

What are you so deathly afraid of?

Original Congressman Shelley Berkley Photo



September 13, 2001 -- (Washington, D.C.) U.S. Rep. Shelley Berkley (NV-1) was one of the first members of Congress to survey the damage sustained at the Pentagon. Berkley received disaster relief briefings from military and law enforcement officials. Upon returning to the Capitol, Berkley donated blood for disaster victims and encouraged all Americans to visit their local blood bank.

Source


[edit on 10/17/09 by SPreston]



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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I notice to that if a person ever does show a photo of what i susppoed to be a part at the Pentagon there are rarely sources like who took at what date and time.

You know things that should be in an investigation.



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