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Once Again, The Will of the Voters Is Denied

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posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

present your side already.


It's already been presented and accepted by the general public, AND by professionals with the experience to gauge it's truth.


It is pretty easy to sit there and just poke at people who present why they believe what they do.


Yes it is.

That's cuz the beliefs put forth by the TM are so stupid and easily debunked.

Like I said, there's NO NEED for the TM to disprove the "os'.What they DO NEED to do, is present a case that will be believed more likely to have happened that the public and the professionals I mentioned can get behind.

That hasn't happened now, has it?




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Most official story believers seem to think that since the majority believe what they believe they don't have to provide any evidence to back up their claims...



Some provide evidence in every post, some don't. Some have already gone through the phase of showing the TM evidence that contradict their claims, and have now learned when it might be of some help to some confused individual that appears to be honestly open minded. there ain't many of those people here, to be sure.

There's NO NEED to rehash that which has already been debunked.

Personally, I save that effort to when someone attempts to bring something new. That's a rarity nowadays. It's mostly just rehashed and debunked old claims.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli
It's already been presented and accepted by the general public, AND by professionals with the experience to gauge it's truth.


Obviously not because here we all still are, and so are plenty of experts with plenty of experience in their respective fields. You just have this stupid and nasty habit of dismissing them all out of hand and tuning out everything they say without seriously considering it. You THINK you've considered it fairly, but not once have you actually thought about it. Only knee-jerk post reactions on internet forums. I have seen you have "debates" with real engineers, remember?


I love how you carry on as if none of the people you talk to online are real, though. That none of us have real-world counterparts or have any voice out there. But then again, I have already seen you carry on exactly as a troll would when faced with an engineer, Val, who knew what in the hell she was saying, when you, didn't. But oh yeah, there's no experts that agree with us.
YOU wouldn't know, because YOU don't even understand the stuff. A 2-year-old could make your posts on here and use the same kinds of fallacious and deflective reasoning/logic.



So that's why you have no case to present us. Not because you're right. Because you don't even know what in the hell you are talking about.

I have been asking to see proof for the official story for years. Why do you think I believe all these crazy conspiracy theories? Because there are only people like you who THINK there is some evidence but are too ignorant to realize there is none, even when pressed hard against a wall.
All you can do is try to turn the burden around back on us, but guess what? We never did the investigation. Only officials did.
Wait -- stop and think for a second -- now hold that thought -- now think about that.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by jthomas
burden of proof is on their shoulders to demonstrate their claims.


I agree

Your claim is that there WAS bodies found at the pentagon...


I guess you missed that Lillydale claimed that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon." How you missed that is incredible but in keeping with what we have learned about you 9/11 "Twooders."

How does Lillydale know there were no passenger bodies found at the Pentagon? Since she refuses to back up her claim, go for it Jezus.

Good luck.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by jthomas
 


JTHOMAS< yes you JTHOMAS,
Are you a US voter?
There is a wide open orifice of yours that contains not one single speck of
substantiated information what so ever.


Amazing. You're upset because I am "just asking questions" of your 9/11 "Truthers" and realize you can't answer them.

The realization that you have wasted 8 years going down the garden path your "9/11 Truth Leaders" led you down must be devastating.

But don't shoot the messenger. I already knew you can't answer any questions about your claims.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by jthomas
 


I am a Ground Zero First Responder and one of the signatories for the NYCCAN movement.

While it is upsetting that this was not handled correctly what is more troubling is that we have people gloating and enjoying the fact that many of us will die never knowing the truth of that day.

You must be a very sick man to get your rocks off on our misery.


You may think that our pain is amusing but I promise you that one day the truth will be known.

We will not give up on the fallen nor will we mock their memories like you and the other low life's on this board.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by jthomas
 


Obviously you have no case to present.


My case is rock solid and I can always depend on you to make it for me every time.

It must be nice to lead a life unburdened by reality.




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale
This is a done deal so you do not need to linger making crazy statements about proving a negative just like jthomas.




True to form Lillydale illustrates Joey Canoli's case, and mine - again!

You would think Lillydale would LEARN the vast difference between proving a negative and making a positive claim of evidence.

But her determined 9/11 Denial prevents her from understanding that she did the latter

Lillydale could actually learn this herself - but denial is denial is denial. There is NO WAY Lillydale can let truth and reason interfere with that!



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by samhouston1886
I am a Ground Zero First Responder and one of the signatories for the NYCCAN movement.

While it is upsetting that this was not handled correctly what is more troubling is that we have people gloating and enjoying the fact that many of us will die never knowing the truth of that day.

You must be a very sick man to get your rocks off on our misery.


You may think that our pain is amusing but I promise you that one day the truth will be known.

We will not give up on the fallen nor will we mock their memories like you and the other low life's on this board.


Sam,

Your service to the city of NY and to those you assisted on 911 is appreciated by everyone. Your all hero's to us.

The NYCCAN petition was set up to fail. The organizers collected money to have this petition pass though the legal channels. They were told by attorneys that it would NOT get through. They went shopping and got pathetic representation. Your anger should be toward them. Your money was taken from you and others in my opinion, dishonestly.

I will give credit where it is due. The TM actually got out from behind their computers and did something. (a small amount of them)

Sam, you say that you will die without knowing the truth. I have to disagree. You're being mislead by charlatans and snakeoil salesmen. If you indeed want to know the truth, there are so many legitimate books that were written about the day. Start with "The Looming Towers" then read "Firefight" ... great reads with lots of information.

If you stay with the truthers, you will stay on the path of failure. You will never see the truth.

Take care!

Dr. P



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by jthomas
burden of proof is on their shoulders to demonstrate their claims.


I agree

Your claim is that there WAS bodies found at the pentagon...


I guess you missed that Lillydale claimed that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon." How you missed that is incredible but in keeping with what we have learned about you 9/11 "Twooders."

How does Lillydale know there were no passenger bodies found at the Pentagon? Since she refuses to back up her claim, go for it Jezus.

Good luck.


So the only evidence for the official story is negative evidence?

The only evidence for the fact that a plane hit the pentagon is that Lillydale on ATS can't disprove it...



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus


The only evidence for the fact that a plane hit the pentagon is that Lillydale on ATS can't disprove it...



Eyewitnesses

Physical Damage

FDR

DNA

Personal Items



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by samhouston1886
reply to post by jthomas
 


I am a Ground Zero First Responder and one of the signatories for the NYCCAN movement.

While it is upsetting that this was not handled correctly what is more troubling is that we have people gloating and enjoying the fact that many of us will die never knowing the truth of that day.


The issue is quite clear. While you might believe you don't know the truth of that day, the vast majority of us understand that massive and multiple lines of evidence and thousands of eyewitnesses that Arab hijackers under the leadership of Osama bin Laden hijacked 4 aircraft, and successfully crashed 3 of them into WTC 1, 2, and the Pentagon.

We understand the evidence, the methodology of the NIST and ASCE investigations, the fact that they are completely open to anyone including the the world's structural engineers, physicists, chemists, architects, and forensic scientists to being affirmed or rebutted, and the conclusions are sound and compelling.

We also understand that so-called 9/11 "Truth" is in reality 9/11 Denial and we have fought it for eight years. It is fundamentally exactly the same as every other form of denial, including round-earth denial, moon-landings denial, Creationism and Holocaust Denial. And for one who has spent many years fighting the scourge of Holocaust Denial, the methodology, refusal to deal with actual evidence, misrepresentations of factual data, constant repetition of debunked claims and questions, and outright lying is no different.

To claim you do not know the truth is specious. You can only claim that you do not know what you do not know. Those who insist on claiming they do not know the truth have a responsibility to support that claim. It is fundamentally the responsibility of those making that claim to actually refute the existing evidence, something 9/11 Deniers have consistently refused to do for the last 8 years. The burden of proof is on them to demonstrate factually that the massive, existing evidence is not true. And the 9/11 "Truth" Movement has consistently refused to do so and has consistently over 8 years denied that actual evidence or pretended it doesn't exist.


You must be a very sick man to get your rocks off on our misery.


You can apologize to me for such an obscene statement. It is precisely the victims, their families, and the massive number of professionals you claim to be part of who are being insulted and taken for a ride by the very 9/11 Deniers we expose on a daily basis.

I suggest that you examine carefully how you are being lied to by the 9/11 "Truth" Movement and why many of us understand the fallacious reasoning behind NYCCAN - and it's blatant use of the victims of 9/11 and their grieving families for their own political purposes.

One day, I hope you understand why those 9/11 Deniers I expose should be apologizing to you, me, and the entire nation.




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by jthomas
burden of proof is on their shoulders to demonstrate their claims.


I agree

Your claim is that there WAS bodies found at the pentagon...


I guess you missed that Lillydale claimed that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon." How you missed that is incredible but in keeping with what we have learned about you 9/11 "Twooders."

How does Lillydale know there were no passenger bodies found at the Pentagon? Since she refuses to back up her claim, go for it Jezus.

Good luck.


So the only evidence for the official story is negative evidence?


Show us - since Lillydale doesn't understand it - how her positive claim of evidence, i.e, that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon" is magically turned into negative evidence. If she makes that claim, then she has to know it is true. She expresses no uncertainty. You understand that simple and clear fact, correct?

I have asked her to support her claim and she refuses. Now, Jezus, step up to the plate and tell us how Lillydale knows that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon."




posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas
We understand the evidence, the methodology of the NIST and ASCE investigations


Then show us.

We understand it, we want to talk about it, this is the first time you have even mentioned "NIST" that I can remember in months!


the fact that they are completely open to anyone including the the world's structural engineers, physicists, chemists, architects, and forensic scientists to being affirmed or rebutted, and the conclusions are sound and compelling.


This is what you say even while you completely ignore the problems with the NIST's report.


We also understand that so-called 9/11 "Truth" is in reality 9/11 Denial and we have fought it for eight years.


I guess it would be idiotic just to let us have our way and have specified inquiries investigated? Support us and let us see what we want, instead of constantly ridiculing us with no case whatsoever?



You must be a very sick man to get your rocks off on our misery.


You can apologize to me for such an obscene statement.


No, now I will second it: you must be a very sick man. Did you even read this guy's post? What does 9/11 even mean to you at all, jthomas?



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by jthomas
 


Obviously you have no case to present.


My case is rock solid and I can always depend on you to make it for me every time.

It must be nice to lead a life unburdened by reality.



I am not sure about that. Ask your doctor. What case is rock solid? Your little game? Is this your way of admitting you have NOTHING to back up your claim about 9/11??????

How about this. Fine, I was wrong. I stated that I knew there were no bodies of passengers found. I should not have said that since even though proving a negative is impossible, it still upsets you because otherwise you would have to prove what you claim actually happened.

Here ya go darlin'. I was wrong. I take it back. I have no idea if there were passenger bodies found there or not.

Now I have read where you stated that there were becuase apparently AA77 crashed into the building. Do you have any proof of that?

p.s. thanks for telling other people you have no evidence for what they want because I did not satisfy your request. Do you even read my posts where I lay out exactly how you will respond? Talk about true to form.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus


So the only evidence for the official story is negative evidence?

The only evidence for the fact that a plane hit the pentagon is that Lillydale on ATS can't disprove it...



Seems rock solid to me. I hope he makes an announcement to all the stupid truthers out there that they can shut up and go home now. All has been proven by jthomas. His proof is that I cannot disprove it! That should hold up.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli

Originally posted by Lillydale

present your side already.


It's already been presented and accepted by the general public, AND by professionals with the experience to gauge it's truth.


It is pretty easy to sit there and just poke at people who present why they believe what they do.


Yes it is.

That's cuz the beliefs put forth by the TM are so stupid and easily debunked.

Like I said, there's NO NEED for the TM to disprove the "os'.What they DO NEED to do, is present a case that will be believed more likely to have happened that the public and the professionals I mentioned can get behind.

That hasn't happened now, has it?

Then I guess you should just move on as well. I still do not understand why any of you even care what "the TM" or any people that question authority have to say to each other. You made your point. J made your point. It has been 8 years. How much longer do you plan on telling us we don't matter and are too stupid to take seriously?



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas
I have asked her to support her claim and she refuses. Now, Jezus, step up to the plate and tell us how Lillydale knows that "there were no passenger bodies at the Pentagon."


It is the default position until otherwise is proven.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

I still do not understand why any of you even care what "the TM" or any people that question authority have to say to each other.


I told you already. Cuz some fence sitters will come with open minds, read another side, and realize that the TM is inhabited by nothings "that question authority", rather than using critical thinking skills.


How much longer do you plan on telling us we don't matter and are too stupid to take seriously?


I really don't know.

One day I'll give up bothering with the idiots in the TM.

Won't be this week though.



posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Joey Canoli


I told you already. Cuz some fence sitters will come with open minds, read another side, and realize that the TM is inhabited by nothings "that question authority", rather than using critical thinking skills.


Yeah...so...what do they need you for if they come here and see that the TM is inhabited by nothings? Do you just like holding strangers hands?


I really don't know.

One day I'll give up bothering with the idiots in the TM.

Won't be this week though.


Wow, you really did not get that at all did you. Let me try this again.

How much more of your time are you going to waste

telling us what a waste of time we are???????


See how it makes you kind of not so smart? 8 years of telling people they do not matter and you do not care...uh huh. I cannot think of one thing that does not matter and I do not care about that I would still be arguing over 8 years later.




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