Originally posted by jthomas

Now that was incredibly dumb of you, Lillydale. Anyone checking the threads in which you and I participated will immediately see that you could not support your claims nor answer one single one of my questions about your claims, despite the fact that I repeatedly asked you to fulfiull your obligation to support your claims, and called you on your many evasions and attempted shifting of the burden of proof.

What do you expect me to do, ask them repeatedly so you can refuse to answer them blather and nonsense....

[edit on 12-10-2009 by jthomas]

Does it make you feel better to make things up? Do you convince yourself? Whatever you want to say pal. I have never avoided a damn thing. I am still waiting for your passengers still strapped into seats and your explanation as to no Arab DNA at the Pentagon crash site and your evidence to back up your claims about what happened to the wings of flight 77. I am still waiting for you to provide evidence. You are waiting for me to prove to you that a certain thing did NOT happen. You will be waiting a while. If you ever get the proof of the BS you have spouted, let me know. Until then, you have fun making things up. You have nothing on me. You have no questions I have dodged. You cannot give an example or show a quote or point us to a thread. You are proving yourself to be highly dishonest. You do realize what that does to my ability to care about what you have to say right? I am sure I am not alone since I am not the only one that can read.

Bring that proof or show where you cornered me any time. Prove you are not a liar. Prove you are honest and worth listening to. Prove you are not just a troll looking to instigate.

Anyone that is curious can check my profile to see my posts. The earlier ones are on threads with Jthomas. You can all go and check and see how he claims to have proof of the OS and never shows it but then accuses everyone else of doing that very thing. It is like a sickness and I really think it highlights a characteristic that is rampant on these threads and needs to just be ignored.

I have nothing to hide. I will be waiting for that proof.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Well...why should I just believe the OS when they cannot make a decent case with evidence to lend it credibility?

You failed to answer the question.

If you don't believe... then that's fine. The rational have already won the argument. Troofers have lost.

In order for you to get in the game and get traction, you must answer the question. Avoid it if you wish.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli
If you don't believe... then that's fine. The rational have already won the argument. Troofers have lost.

Then why are you still here?

Because you think this is a game, obviously.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli

Originally posted by Lillydale

Well...why should I just believe the OS when they cannot make a decent case with evidence to lend it credibility?

You failed to answer the question.

If you don't believe... then that's fine. The rational have already won the argument. Troofers have lost.

In order for you to get in the game and get traction, you must answer the question. Avoid it if you wish.

No, Joey. You still have not answered the question. You have not answered any questions. Yes, rational people have won and that is why more and more and more people feel there needs to be another investigation. I know that you think you won but if that were true...would you be here trying to prove you won still? When you get around to answering any of the questions tossed at you for all the time I have been following along, I will answer yours. I have an answer. I just want to see if you can ever live up to your own standards especially since the challenge was put to you first.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Yes, rational people have won and that is why more and more and more people feel there needs to be another investigation.

Stundied.

I know that you think you won but if that were true...would you be here trying to prove you won still?

Yes. Some of the TM is composed of the ignorant and uneducated. In debunking the stupidity that is the TM, one always hopes that a few can be saved from further insanity that is the TM.

When you get around to answering any of the questions tossed at you for all the time I have been following along, I will answer yours.

Ok, we'll start with your last. You should believe the "os" cuz it has multiple lines of converging evidence that prove it. And no credible challenge has ever benn put forth. I give the fact that after 8 yrs, nothing has happened anywhere that has changed it.

I have an answer.

JAQing off isn't answering.

I just want to see if you can ever live up to your own standards especially since the challenge was put to you first.

Ball's in your court, champ.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli

Stundied.

What?

Ball's in your court, champ.

That is just what I thought. You can NOT live up to your own standards and present any proof. The reason nothing has changed in 8 years is because the people that did it are the people in charge. There is a big difference between having actual evidence and knowing that the judge and the jury are also the criminals. You have no proof, you just keep saying you do. You have not shown any. The ball began in your court and all you did was claim to have played it when all you really did was toss it over the net.

Originally posted by jthomas

Why do you think many of us keep calling you on the carpet to back up your claims?

I am right here. I am on the carpet. What claims have I made and failed to back up. Single me out. Embarass me. Humiliate me and show me how wrong I am. Show everyone what a liar and hypocrite I have been. I am literally begging you to show me everything I have made a claim of and failed to prove.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by jthomas

Why do you think many of us keep calling you on the carpet to back up your claims?

I am right here. I am on the carpet. What claims have I made and failed to back up. Single me out. Embarass me. Humiliate me and show me how wrong I am.

You've completely embarrassed yourself.

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by jthomas

Why do you think many of us keep calling you on the carpet to back up your claims?

I am right here. I am on the carpet. What claims have I made and failed to back up. Single me out. Embarass me. Humiliate me and show me how wrong I am.

You've completely embarrassed yourself.

Have I? Where are these claims that I failed to back up then? Saying that I embarassed myself is not the same as me actually being embarrased. I have read more than enough of your posts to know by now that you think that you can just say ANYTHING and somehow that is good enough. If you want to embarrass me, prove me wrong. Show me up. Point out all my lies and failed promises. Present me with all of my claims I have failed to back up.

Either do that, or shut up. You can pretend to call me out all you like but until you actually back it up, you look like an idiot.

Originally posted by jthomas


How are 8,000 people who were there "not real?" Are you that stupid, Lillydale?

What are you talking about? When did I say that 8,000 people were not real???? I clearly stated that the webpage does NOT MEAN ANYTHING REAL. I did not say 8000 people were not real people. You cannot be this stupid and still be able to type on a keyboard.

And here you are claiming you want evidence that passengers were found in their seats inside the Pentagon but you refuse to get the statements from those who can tell you whether there were or not!

That's for making my case for me again, Lillydale. How utterly irrational you 9/11 Twoofers are. Do you have a CLUE how muddled your statements are?

Um yeah. Moron, listen. I specifically asked you a question. Can you follow along for just a moment? Stop lying, just saying things, and waving unconfirmed websites around.

WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THAT WEBPAGE OVER THE CORONER OR THE AUTOPSY RESULTS??????????????????????

According to the coroner there were NO BODIES STRAPPED INTO ANY SEATS. According to your webpage there were.

Please tell me why your webpage is more credible than the coroner.

[edit on 10/13/09 by Lillydale]

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by jthomas


How are 8,000 people who were there "not real?" Are you that stupid, Lillydale?

What are you talking about? When did I say that 8,000 people were not real???? I clearly stated that the webpage does NOT MEAN ANYTHING REAL.

Nice dodge. The subject matter is the evidence and links provided by that webpage and my specific link to those organizations made up of 8,000 people who were at the Pentagon.

I did not say 8000 people were not real people. You cannot be this stupid and still be able to type on a keyboard.

But I'm not stupid. You clearly evaded the fact that you have 8,000 people that can provide you answers to the questions you asked but you refuse to do so. Your evasion is one of the most blatant ones you've committed to date.

And here you are claiming you want evidence that passengers were found in their seats inside the Pentagon but you refuse to get the statements from those who can tell you whether there were or not!

That's for making my case for me again, Lillydale. How utterly irrational you 9/11 Twoofers are. Do you have a CLUE how muddled your statements are?

Um yeah. Moron, listen. I specifically asked you a question. Can you follow along for just a moment? Stop lying, just saying things, and waving unconfirmed websites around.

Nice of you to show your true colors by evading providing the statements of the 8,000 people who were at the Pentagon.

WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE THAT WEBPAGE OVER THE CORONER OR THE AUTOPSY RESULTS??????????????????????

Boy, this is the most desperate you've been yet. You're still trying the ploy that one is asking you to believe a web page when you have been clearly asked by me multiple times to provide the statements of the over 8,000 people who WERE AT THE PENTAGON.

According to the coroner there were NO BODIES STRAPPED INTO ANY SEATS. According to your webpage there were.

Then explain to everyone here why you REFUSE to confirm from the sources if there were bodies or not if you claim you want to know.

Please tell me why your webpage is more credible than the coroner.

You want to continue to pretend that you can avoid 8,000 people? You are the one claiming there is no evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon. You're all worked up because of the many links, one included the testimony of an eyewitness you think is not accurate. And that, to you, invalidates all of the other evidence and links to it on that website????

That is EXACTLY how your 9/11 Denial works.

You better go back to square one, Lillydale. You are completely muddled and unwilling to refute the evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

Your evasions are turning into that epic fail.

Remember, you stated for all to see:

Seen the bodies?
Seen what these "people" you speak of saw?
Talked to every single witness and determined which ones were wrong, lying, blind?

Interviewed any of those 8,000 people yet, Lillydale?

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by jthomas

Why do you think many of us keep calling you on the carpet to back up your claims?

I am right here. I am on the carpet. What claims have I made and failed to back up. Single me out. Embarass me. Humiliate me and show me how wrong I am.

You've completely embarrassed yourself.

Have I? Where are these claims that I failed to back up then? Saying that I embarassed myself is not the same as me actually being embarrased.

I am happy to make you're dream come true, Lillydale:

Claims Lillydale refuses to admit she made:

1. "...the FDR is proof even though the FDR completely contradicts the story it supposedly proves."
2. "...we now know for sure that there were no wings on whatever did hit the pentagon so I guess the OSers have to go back to the drawing board."
3. "I fail to see how any investigation that is carried out so poorly could still have so many people so convinced."
4. "All they needed to do was give you 3 corners and your mind automatically adds a fourth."
5. "...whatever to explain why no witnesses found passenger bodies, the coroner did not find passenger bodies, and passenger bodies are not in any of the crash scene reports."
6. "In the old days, they would have been compelled to id parts by S/N but I guess now they just publish a few photos and wait for someone on ATS to look at them??? "
7."...you know there were no passenger bodies found at the Pentagon."
8."...you "Official Story" believers..." (That's Lillydale's foot-in-mouth disease :LOL
9. "You are just repeating things you have been told."
10. "People like Thomas have already made it clear that 8 years ago, the pentagon could have never had the quality of surveillance that an office supply warehouse of the same time would."
11. "...completely pretending that over 80 tapes were not stolen to prevent us from getting a good shot of the plane."
12. "Before 9/11, there were no dead airline passengers at the pentagon.Since 9/11, nothing has shown me that has changed."
13. "You honestly believe it is logical to believe that the status quo is hijacked planes full of passengers crashing into the Pentagon."
14. "Yes, he insists that I prove a negative. He expects me to prove that no passenger bodies were found." (See his claim at #7 above. Yes, it's amazing isn'it?)
15. "I have never avoided a damn thing." (Lillydale has been asked repeatedly to support her claims and won't.)
16. "You are waiting for me to prove to you that a certain thing did NOT happen." (Lillydale was trounced on that fallacy. See #7 again above.)
17. "You have nothing on me. You have no questions I have dodged. You cannot give an example or show a quote or point us to a thread." (See entire list above.)
18. "Bring that proof or show where you cornered me any time. Prove you are not a liar. Prove you are honest and worth listening to. Prove you are not just a troll looking to instigate." (See entire list above.)
19. "What claims of mine have I failed to back up?" (Guffaw!)

Amazing, isn't it?

Lillydale follows the long list of 9/11 Deniers who tried to get away with the ploy of "just asking questions" only to have their own words shoot them down.

It should be clear now why Lillydale gave herself away right from the beginning as if she is the only 9/11 Denier who has tried that gambit in the last 8 years.

Sorry, Lillydale, 9/11 Deniers like you are too illogical to recognize your own contradictions or make any argument whatsoever that there is a single legitimate piece of evidence that contradicts the massive evidence from hundreds of independent sources and lines of evidence and thousands of eyewitnesses that conclusively demonstrates that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

I spotted your gambit early on having seen it used repeatedly since early 2002. And your gambit ended as it always does - an epic fail.

Originally posted by jthomas


I am happy to make you're dream come true, Lillydale:

LOL, and you DID!!!!!!!!! This is the funniest thing you have posted so far.

Claims Lillydale refuses to admit she made:

1. "...the FDR is proof even though the FDR completely contradicts the story it supposedly proves."

Never made any such claim. Context is everything but I guess that is why you replaced the rest of the sentence with an ellipsis. Please post the entire statement so everyone else can laugh at your poor reading comprehension or your purposely deceptive edit.

2. "...we now know for sure that there were no wings on whatever did hit the pentagon so I guess the OSers have to go back to the drawing board."

You want me to prove that there were NO wings? Hmmmm....ok there were no wings there before the crash. There were no wings there after the crash. There is no damage from wings and so far the OS gives at least 4 different explanations as to what must have happened to said wings. Are you assuming that there have always been wings just laying around at the Pentagon or are you forgetting that something has to change that in order for me to have to go back and prove nothing changed. You claim things changed from what they were. You need to prove the change.

There, I just proved that claim with logic. Look into it.

3. "I fail to see how any investigation that is carried out so poorly could still have so many people so convinced."

Huh huh. I do fail to see that. You want me to prove my opinions now too?

Just which part of my "claim" is wrong?
"Fail to see how" means the same as "Do not understand how." Did you expect something from my optometrist to prove that I actually can not literally see concepts?
The investigation was carried out poorly as even the 9/11 commission who conducted it admits they needed more info and could not really investigate fully. NIST has made about the buildings collapsing but screwed up math conversions and left out an entire building.
More people do believe the "OS" than not don't they? I get that part from you guys so if that is wrong, I would be happy to be wrong. That also would negate most of your arguments so far that ride solely on the backs of what the majority thinks but I am willing to bet I have just confused you even more now.

4. "All they needed to do was give you 3 corners and your mind automatically adds a fourth."

What do you want me to prove here?

These are not 'claims.' You are a moron.

5. "...whatever to explain why no witnesses found passenger bodies, the coroner did not find passenger bodies, and passenger bodies are not in any of the crash scene reports."

Again you took out context but I think I can handle this one. The coroner did not find any passenger bodies. Passenger bodies are not in any of the reports of what was found at the crash scene. There are no CREDIBLE reports from witnesses who claimed to find bodies. There is one website with some uncredited quotes that keeps getting shoved in my face but no one has explained why I should read that instead of the coroner report so far.

6. "In the old days, they would have been compelled to id parts by S/N but I guess now they just publish a few photos and wait for someone on ATS to look at them??? "

SOP is to identify the plane parts by serial number. It was not done on 9/11.

Which part do you need proof of?

7."...you know there were no passenger bodies found at the Pentagon."

Have you found some proof that there were? I have already proven there were not. We went over this. There were none on 9/10. Nothing since then has happened that showed me there would have been bodies in the crash area at ANY TIME SINCE 9/10. What have you seen? Have you seen something that proved to you otherwise? If so, why are you hiding it. I was told AA77 crashed there but I have seen no proof of that or that whatever did crash there had anyone on board. If you have something to prove that wrong, I would love to see it.

8."...you "Official Story" believers..." (That's Lillydale's foot-in-mouth disease :LOL

That is a claim I have failed to prove? Seriously, do you suffer a learning disability? I hate to think I am taking advantage of this wonderful display of how damaged you are. The list is claims I failed to back up. You were already 0 for 7 with a half credit. What is 8???????????????????

9. "You are just repeating things you have been told."

OK! FINALLY. You got me there. I cannot prove that you are just repeating things you were told. There is a very real chance that you thought up the same things I read from other like minded posters and all over right-wing blogs. It is mostly angry, ignorant, ill-informed ranting and strikingly similar in nature. Congratulations on that one.

10. "People like Thomas have already made it clear that 8 years ago, the pentagon could have never had the quality of surveillance that an office supply warehouse of the same time would."

You did not say that the gate cam footage is representative of the best camera they had as surveillance on the Pentagon in 2001? If you want me to find your quotes saying it, I would be glad to show you what it actually looks like to prove someone wrong. Which part are you disputing? A web search could easily just tell you what kinds of cameras were available at that time. I can do that for you too if I must. Other than that, you could loo into it because all I can really do is take you down to the security company that installed them. U2U me and we will make arrangements. I would be thrilled to introduce you to the man who bought and installed some of them personally. Then again, you could just google it but that seems challenging for you.

Originally posted by jthomas
11. "...completely pretending that over 80 tapes were not stolen to prevent us from getting a good shot of the plane."

Um...ok. Where are they? I could be wrong, have they been released?

12. "Before 9/11, there were no dead airline passengers at the pentagon.Since 9/11, nothing has shown me that has changed."

Why did you even attempt to make this list of "Claims I made and failed to back up?" Seriously, do you even know what a claim is? Do you know what it means to back something up? Is English not your first language? I cannot wait to see you prove there were dead passengers from AA77 in the building before they even got on the plane. Then you can prove how you know I have seen something I have claimed to not have seen. You are funny.

13. "You honestly believe it is logical to believe that the status quo is hijacked planes full of passengers crashing into the Pentagon."

I am pretty sure that was originally a question so you had to alter things again. Unfortunately, either way you still do not have me. Your exact statement was that the status quo was the truth and that the truth was there were dead bodies in the building. Maybe you do not know what "status quo" means.

14. "Yes, he insists that I prove a negative. He expects me to prove that no passenger bodies were found." (See his claim at #7 above. Yes, it's amazing isn'it?)

LOL. You did not ask me to prove there were no passenger bodies? Do you really want me to do this to you? Either you did or you are changing your entire argument now. So I do not need to prove it to you anymore? Clear this up.

15. "I have never avoided a damn thing." (Lillydale has been asked repeatedly to support her claims and won't.)

Thanks to your list we can clearly see that I was right and you are a very very special boy.

16. "You are waiting for me to prove to you that a certain thing did NOT happen." (Lillydale was trounced on that fallacy. See #7 again above.)

Trounced? I was never even hit by a light breeze. Why do you think you can fool people about what they themselves can and probably already have read? When was I trounced and how is this a claim I failed to back up?

Again, your list does not even consist of the things you were claiming to list. Do you know what you are talking about any more?

CLAIMS.

CLAIMS I FAILED TO BACK UP.

You are waiting for me to prove something did NOT happen. Tell me you are not and we can stop all this now. Just admit that you no longer want me to prove there were no bodies and that you no longer want me to prove that AA77 did not hit the building or at least 3 of your list items so far just show that you are not even sure if it was me or yourself you were trying to show up.

17. "You have nothing on me. You have no questions I have dodged. You cannot give an example or show a quote or point us to a thread." (See entire list above.)

I see it. I am looking at it. I am really enjoying it so far. It is not even my birthday. You are the best!

18. "Bring that proof or show where you cornered me any time. Prove you are not a liar. Prove you are honest and worth listening to. Prove you are not just a troll looking to instigate." (See entire list above.)

Funny, it seems to me - and I am just reading the English words now - but that sentence tells you to prove to me you are not a liar. Have you proven that yet? Even if your list was somewhat or all the way accurate, you would still not have proven you are not a liar. Thank you for pointing out how you failed to live up to your own standards. Thank you even more for posting it as somehow a fault of mine.

19. "What claims of mine have I failed to back up?" (Guffaw!)

(Chortle Snort Chuckle Laugh!)

Amazing, isn't it?

Almost overwhelmingly so, yes.

Lillydale follows the longblah blah blah

I am not going to read you talk about me in this post so whatever that said, I hope your audience enjoyed it.

Sorry, Lillydale, 9/11 Deniers like you are too illogical to recognize your own contradictions or make any argument whatsoever that there is a single legitimate piece of evidence that contradicts the massive evidence from hundreds of independent sources and lines of evidence and thousands of eyewitnesses that conclusively demonstrates that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

I spotted your gambit early on having seen it used repeatedly since early 2002. And your gambit ended as it always does - an epic fail.

Wow, you knew me back in 2002? Where did we meet? Perhaps it was love gone bad and you are now embittered? Did I break your heart those lonely 7 years ago? Poor, sweet, sad, stupid little guy. I loved the list. Can you do it again for Friday. There is really nothing funny on tv or at the movies this weekend and I cannot tell you how much fun this one was.

Oh yeah, could you please reply with some snarky denial that pretends I did not address your obvious lies and misconstructions and just says some things that are demonstrably untrue in an obliviously victorious manner?

edit to add italics because apparently sometimes context is not enough.


[edit on 10/13/09 by Lillydale]