Global warming? Meh, not so much. . . , page 1
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Topic started on 10-10-2009 @ 09:36 AM by mikerussellus
Source
news.bbc.co.uk...

This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.

But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures.

And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has continued to rise.

So what on Earth is going on?

Climate change sceptics, who passionately and consistently argue that man's influence on our climate is overstated, say they saw it coming.

They argue that there are natural cycles, over which we have no control, that dictate how warm the planet is. But what is the evidence for this?

During the last few decades of the 20th Century, our planet did warm quickly.


And the results were clear. "Warming in the last 20 to 40 years can't have been caused by solar activity," said Dr Piers Forster from Leeds University, a leading contributor to this year's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

But one solar scientist Piers Corbyn from Weatheraction, a company specialising in long range weather forecasting, disagrees.

He claims that solar charged particles impact us far more than is currently accepted, so much so he says that they are almost entirely responsible for what happens to global temperatures.

He is so excited by what he has discovered that he plans to tell the international scientific community at a conference in London at the end of the month.

If proved correct, this could revolutionise the whole subject.


So the world won't end. Oceans won't rise up, swallow cities, cute little polar bears can frolic in the snow.

But we may freeze to death. . . so we're still doooooooooooomed, doomed I tells ya', doomed!





I wonder what the cap and trade crowd will do with this?

My guess? Ignore it, as usual.


reply posted on 10-10-2009 @ 10:00 AM by soldiermom
reply to post by mikerussellus



I wonder what the cap and trade crowd will do with this?


They will ignore it. Otherwise, what happens to their grand money-making scheme?

Global warming. Yet another hoax perpetrated on gullible folks to rake in the big bucks.


reply posted on 10-10-2009 @ 01:04 PM by jdub297
reply to post by mikerussellus

I was about to post this sme article and noticed your thread/

s&f

The parts that really caught my attention were the oceanic cycles (which are solar-driven, of course).

According to research conducted by Professor Don Easterbrook from Western Washington University last November, the oceans and global temperatures are correlated.

The oceans, he says, have a cycle in which they warm and cool cyclically. The most important one is the Pacific decadal oscillation (PDO).

For much of the 1980s and 1990s, it was in a positive cycle, that means warmer than average. And observations have revealed that global temperatures were warm too.

But in the last few years it has been losing its warmth and has recently started to cool down.

These cycles in the past have lasted for nearly 30 years.

So could global temperatures follow? The global cooling from 1945 to 1977 coincided with one of these cold Pacific cycles.

Professor Easterbrook says: "The PDO cool mode has replaced the warm mode in the Pacific Ocean, virtually assuring us of about 30 years of global cooling."


Great find.

Maybe the growing reality of the $$$ drivers behind "AGW" and GHG reduction is causing people to stop and re-assess the natural cycles over which man will never have control.

The best we can hope for is to learn how to "ride out" the extremes
and not poison our surrounding s while we do so.

IMHO.

jw




[edit on 10-10-2009 by jdub297]



reply posted on 10-10-2009 @ 11:22 PM by watcher73
Originally posted by mikerussellus
Source
news.bbc.co.uk...

This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.


Didnt 1998 end up being a math error and the warmest year on record is in the 1930's?



[edit on 10-10-2009 by watcher73]


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 12:24 AM by lernmore
I have some friends who are real beaker and flask type scientists. They aren't connected to either side of the argument monetarily and have been looking into it for some years. They examined the evidence, poured over the particulars, and have also come to the conclusion that the whole man made global warming thing is a total sham.

While they all agreed that the cyclical climate change and influence of water vapor alone (compared to co2 emissions) is not even something that we could control, they did say that the acidity of the oceans is something to be concerned about.

I believe they also speculated that the earth would cool another 5 degrees if we could just control all that hot air spewing from Al Gore's pie hole.

I find it completely hilarious that you can go to a kiosk now at some airports, and pay to "offset" your carbon footprint by giving them money. Apparently they'll take like 85% of that in some cases, go plant a few trees, and KEEP the other 15%!

Yes folks, while there are many things you can do to help reduce pollution, and your own footprint, like weatherproofing, recycling, using low-watt bulbs etc, the whole cap and trade thing is designed by snake oil salesman in order to pollute their pockets with your money.

Did you know that there are companies right now that are getting paid more money to clean up their own mess from making a product than they make on the actual product?
Guess who pays for that.
Sure they may call it "credits", but maybe they think nobody will raise an eyebrow if they don't call it money.

The IPCC doesn't seem to have a problem using manipulated data, and all those "paid" researchers need to have a scenario elevated to the equivalent of a threat to national security. I mean, what would they do if they weren't urgently needed to continue their research?

Like I said in another post, Mr. Gore can take his carbon credit kiosk company and shove it in a warm place.


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 12:56 AM by jdub297
Originally posted by watcher73

Didnt 1998 end up being a math error and the warmest year on record is in the 1930's?

You are correct, sir. GISS problems.

Steve McIntyre found anomalies, including the placement of weather monitoring stations NEXT TO air conditioning condenser units, that skewed recent data up. After he advised NASA, they revised their web page, attributing the discovery to McIntyre, and issued a corrected set of temperature anomaly data which you can see here:

data.giss.nasa.gov...

NASA's newly published data set from Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS) represent deviation from the mean temperature calculated from temperature measurement stations throughout the USA.

According to the new data published by NASA, 1998 is no longer the hottest year ever. 1934 is.

Four of the top 10 years of US CONUS high temperature deviations are now from the 1930s: 1934, 1931, 1938 and 1939, while only 3 of the top 10 are from the last 10 years (1998, 2006, 1999). Several years (2000, 2002, 2003, 2004) fell well down the leaderboard, behind even 1900.


Good memory!

s4u

jw

[edit on 11-10-2009 by jdub297]


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 01:02 AM by jdub297
reply to post by schrodingers dog

MORE misdirection?
You should know I said nothing in my posts about your position on AGW.
I said nothing on the merits of AGW at all.

I specifically took issue with sly tactics in your misdirection making false statements about the posters previous to you at that point:
So what you guys are saying is ... we should pollute more?


No one said or implied any such thing. You got called on it by soldiermom, and others.

Ignore this if you want, but that doesn't justify YOUR questioning MY motives.

jw

[edit on 11-10-2009 by jdub297]



reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 11:08 AM by jdub297
reply to post by dr dodge

first let me say, I think the global warming thing is questionable.


Warming and cooling Have always, and always will take place until solar radiation overwhelms the cycles.

but, there are a couple of things I would like to throw out in the discussion.
first, where is all the ice cap water going?

The "four major food groups" It seems that few people take into account the global land reclamation and reforestation efforts the same organizations that decry AGW (UN-sponsored) are expanding exponentially around the world.

(All in all, I don't think it makes ALL that much difference, but the results ARE measureable.)

water that is held out of the water cycle, aka in bottles, canned food, etc., and one other place, us.
the population of the world is greater than ever in history, we are 98% water, at 200 lbs each...thats a lot of water


Having said what I did above, I don't believe the cumulative effect is significant. We can create LOCAL effects through re-direction of natural flows and water cycles. We do not as a species "absorb" that much; it all gets returned eventually, just in different places.

also, every night the weather report in every metro area talks about the heat island effect -- the shear added surface area vs heat mass changes our local climate
now fill the island with well fed humans sluffing off body heat...


Your innate sense proves right. "Local" effects can be profound. Beyond that, Gaia takes over.

Albuquerque doesn't make it rain in Brainerd.

I'd love to calculate the effects of both of these, but don't know how to get real useful data
maybe someone here knows how


It's been done. Don'y know the sites off the top of my head, but I know that they total body-mass of INSECTS dwarfs that of humans.

Think about that one for a bit, and maybe you'll get a grasp of how insignificant we really are.

AGW is really just hubris gone crazy. Sometimes, we're (collectively) just to full of ourselves.

jw


[edit on 11-10-2009 by jdub297]


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 12:08 PM by soldiermom
reply to post by schrodingers dog




It may be a short view of the situation, but I think that pretty much sums up the cap and trade crowd's motivation. Otherwise, why attempt cap and trade? Like you said, there's no verifiable data either way, so why start taxing us on something that doesn't have solid evidence to back the claim?

And, let me say, I hold no grudge against anyone trying to make a buck. Capitalism is a good thing, in my opinion. But not under false pretenses.

It reeks of a money grabbing ploy by the government and the green movement, to further the theft of our tax dollars.

I forgot to add that I do mind people trying to make money off of me based on unsubstantiated claims. We already have enough of that. Don't ya think?

[edit on 10/11/2009 by soldiermom]
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