I'm Getting the Vaccine - Tonight.

emsed you have yet to respond to the statement, "Doctors and nurses refuse to take the vaccine"

also, what about the vaccine taking 5 months to be produced? is this not a factor in your decision to tell other people to get the vaccine?

i won't take it. i don't take pharmaceuticals. organic herbals only.

what standards has our healthcare dropped to to allow mass production of a hardly tested vaccine?

something is happening. something big. something very very big.

exciting huh

I have not been active on ATS. However, my wife is a regular poster and has been keeping me apprised of the various Threads. When I heard of this particular thread, I decided it was time to get active. This is too important.

I can appreciate another's right to opinion, providing they appreciate mine likewise. I don't see this here. Instead, what I see is a person, who is supposedly allowing himself to be vaccinated with the H1N1 vaccine, in an attempt to prove others foolish and wrong. Respectively, I have to repeat the word "supposedly", as the reader has no way of verifying any of this taking place.

My concern is that this person will return periodically, claiming - 'all is fine, I was right and everyone else was wrong'. This may serve it's targeted purpose, of influencing another reader to go ahead and get the shot and that's what worries me.

I practice Alternative Medicine. While I am legally not allowed to recommend or advise against a treatment such as this. I will say that my clients have complete faith in Herbal Remedies that are available to them and, in many cases, have chosen to use them over the absurd science that has goes into making some of the Conventional Medicines. Personally, I've never had a Flu Shot, and I haven't had the flu in over 25 years.

As for the individual that initiated this Thread; I wish you well. My prayers will be with you and for the sake of your own health - I hope you're right and that the rest of us are indeed wrong, but sometimes "hopes and wishes" are nothing more than hopes and wishes.

Like I said, I am new to posting here on ATS, but I would think that the real purpose of a Thread is to "share thought" and not to prove others right or wrong. So, please don't allow yourself to be influenced by the writings of one person, especially when you cannot verify whether or not he actually took the vaccine. Also, if he did take it, you cannot verify the physical response.

This could very well be one of the most important decisions all of us will have to make. I would hope others would based this decision on as much information as possible. A quick glance shows me that ATS has many viewpoints. After this, turn to the Internet, your doctor, your pastor, your friends. Gather information - then make your choice with confidence that you are making the correct one, regardless what others may say.

reply to post by madherbalist
I agree with you completely. I written the same on Page 8 and 9 and argued with him about this for a longer time.

reply to post by pluckynoonez



lmaoo well said..hats off to you!!

Originally posted by madherbalist




As for the individual that initiated this Thread; I wish you well. My prayers will be with you and for the sake of your own health - I hope you're right and that the rest of us are indeed wrong, but sometimes "hopes and wishes" are nothing more than hopes and wishes.

You say that You hope for the person that started this thread that they are right and we are wrong. How can one be wrong when we have studied the facts? Facts aren't opinions... facts are facts! 3+3=6 that is a fact...no one here can dispute it. So.. as I said...you say to the person that started this thread you hope that they are right... they are not right and the FACTS prove it!!! We have the ingredients that are in this vaccine... that is fact!!! We have past cases and what it has done to people...that is FACT...We also have as fact how long it took for the pharma's to study and make this vaccine and given the time span it is not long enough to study the safety of this vaccine!!! That is a FACT..not an opinion!! I did appreciate your comment and agree with you...I just wanted to point out that the person who started this thread is not taking the vaccine on facts but on HIS OPINION!!!! Not nearly good enough for me~!

Someone else had pointed this out concerning the attitude of the poster...it's as if your putting down the ones that choose not to take this vaccine..when in fact they have done their homework and made the best educated choice they could make. The choice you have made doesn't seem educated at all but merely a show of whose got the biggest balls...

Well, we ALL know there is no way, or REASON to have any different batches of vaccine, right? Who would it serve to have the health professionals die of h1n1?

Given the trustworthiness of those involved in providing you with your opportunity for documentation, I think it's noteworthy that you have no control group. Let's follow your vaccine:

US government---Big Pharma---Hospitals.... hmm...so far all the steps are taken through entities not known for their overwhelming morality.

The makers of the vaccine, and the ones that have paid them to make it, are completely responsible for the effects of it, and your personal anecdotal 'evidence' will not definitively represent the dangers of lack thereof of this vaccine. It's not an attack, just an observation.

Since your facility just received 400 doses, what are the odds that the next round of doses, the ones designed for common folk, are from the same batch?

I applaud you taking a stand for what you believe in (apparently blind faith in those fine guys that bring you death and destruction served up in interesting new ways daily) but your experiment is flawed and thus even if you DID make it through fine, your results could not be considered to be representative of what others could expect. As a medical professional, I'm sure you are aware of that.

I would leave you with a few questions, my friend. Why so many doses? Why 200 million? Why so few? Who are the 100 million 'expendable?' Have they been honest with us about the severity of h1n1? When did we learn to have 'faith' in the fornication of big pharma and the US government?

One man's faith is indeed another's ignorance. Keep us posted, friend.

My question is why haven't we seen President Obama, Michele and their daughters have a very public vaccination with all the other recipients? The Surgeon General and their family? Head of FEMA and their family? Get my drift? All of these folks lining up with the other sheeple. And it would have to be a scenario where there would be no chance of slipping in placebos.

reply to post by emsed1



You are a traitor, and you are now apart of the dark side. Sike just kidding, good luck to you.

Originally posted by tracehd1

3+3=6 that is a fact...no one here can dispute it.

actually there was a fellow awhile back that had started a thread saying 2+2=5 and whatnot and i assure you he would argue your point all day long

just messin broheem

emsed im still waitin man!

Originally posted by emsed1
reply to post by QtheQ

 

I just want to point out that mandatory vaccinations for health care workers is not a new phenomenon.

Over the last twenty years in my profession we have been required to submit to a number of vaccinations, namely Hep B, MMR, etc. in order to remain employed. I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now, but that's the way the game is played.

I would argue that in the case of the New York health care worker mandate, a new phenomenon has emerged in the form of a state government requiring submission to any vaccine in order to remain employed after meeting all the new-hire requirements for vaccination.

I'm actually a health care worker myself and when I was first hired I had to be tested for immunity and subsequently required to get the MMR jab to remain in the new job. In my case I had already worked as a temp at the hospital in the same position (Radiology HUC) with the same duties as I was hired for but as a temp I never was required to have any vaccinations. After getting hired and being notified that I had to get the MMR, I tried to ignore the hospital's occupational health dept, hoping they would forget about me, but they didn't, so I submitted. That was over five years ago and I haven't had to face any new vaccine requirements.

I realize that all hospitals have a lot of prerogative with their policies and some may require periodic vaccinations to remain employed but I'm not aware of any State mandate previous to the New York one that requires a vaccination to remain employed regardless of how long the employee has worked at a facility.

I realize it is possible that another state in the past may have instituted such a mandate, but if not, then this New York mandate could provide a precedent that other states could refer to as justification for their own similar mandates.

Originally posted by emsed1

PS - Why am I doing this you ask? BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GET THE DAMNED FLU FROM DIRTY PATIENTS WHO REFUSED TO GET THE VACCINE, and I don't want to bring that crap home to my kids.

Game on

This part of the OP encapsulates (note - in CAPITALS for extra emphasis)

...it encapsulates how the propaganda to get people to take the vaccine is going to be pitched.

Note the use of the word 'DAMNED' to describe the flu.

Note the use of the word 'DIRTY' to describe people who refuse the vaccine.

Note the emotive implication that people who get vaccinated care about their kids. Implying that those who don't get vaccinated are 'bad parents'.

Yes indeed. GAME ON!

Originally posted by emsed1

I hope in your ignorance that if you don't get vaccinated that you don't sneeze on an immunosuppressed child that subsequently dies from the disease.

Have you ever considered that?

I will be physically unable to infect someone with H1N1 in a week. I cannot humanly be possible to give someone H1N1 flu.

However if YOU get the flu, and YOU convince those around you to not get the vaccine then YOU are the one continuing the spread of the pandemic.

As much as you guys want me to die, I want ten times more for none of you to get the flu. I want a thousand times more for you not to spread it. And I hope a million times more that you don't inadvertently cause the death of a child through ignorance or pride, based on your complete lack of scientific understanding.

And then the propaganda will extend to the mega guilt-trip!

That those who refuse the vaccine could put other people at risk.

Not just that, though. The 'refuses' could kill children.

This is propaganda at it's most insidious.

The implication/message in the above quote is saying to you - that it is your duty to get vaccinated.

Beware.

A lot of time and effort has gone into this 'Swine Flu' project.

The fear-mongering regarding the virus has been and IS completely
over-the-top.

Originally posted by AnotherSon
My question is why haven't we seen President Obama, Michele and their daughters have a very public vaccination with all the other recipients? The Surgeon General and their family? Head of FEMA and their family? Get my drift? All of these folks lining up with the other sheeple. And it would have to be a scenario where there would be no chance of slipping in placebos.

I agree with the 'spirit' of your post--but how would you PROVE it wasn't a 'placebo'?I was a nurse for almost eight years,and I can tell you that the only way to know and then legal way to DOCUMENT that you KNOW---is if you prepare and administer the medication/vaccination yourself.So--unfortunately,you could have Obama,his wife,kids,Congress and all of Washington line up and take that shot on camera,live and in real-time--but the fact remains that there would STILL be no practical and measurable way to know that they were ACTUALLY receiving what they SAID they were.

reply to post by madherbalist


Thanks for participating.

Please read the thread before you put words in my mouth.

I am not trying to prove anyone foolish. I am not trying to prove anyone wrong.

I am simply saying I chose to take the vaccine based on all the information I have available and to stand as an example for others who might want to know what happens.

Originally posted by Teeky
reply to post by emsed1

 

You are a traitor, and you are now apart of the dark side. Sike just kidding, good luck to you.

HA! HA!

Awesome!

Day Three

I feel fine. I feel normal.


I need to clear something up.

I hold no grudge against anyone who chooses not to get the vaccine. I have never called anyone making that choice 'stupid' or 'ignorant'.

We are all free to make our own choices and to believe what we believe.

I'm just telling my experience and you can take it or leave it.

Originally posted by thunderabove
emsed you have yet to respond to the statement, "Doctors and nurses refuse to take the vaccine"

also, what about the vaccine taking 5 months to be produced? is this not a factor in your decision to tell other people to get the vaccine?

i won't take it. i don't take pharmaceuticals. organic herbals only.

what standards has our healthcare dropped to to allow mass production of a hardly tested vaccine?

something is happening. something big. something very very big.

exciting huh

OK I get it.

You don't want the vaccine.

Then don't get it.

Nobody is judging you, don't get so defensive.

reply to post by sum-one


The comments I made aren't "propaganda". They are called "opinions".

Quite simply I got vaccinated so I won't get the swine flu and I won't spread it to others. End of story.

I am an average dude in the midwest in an average town. I based my decision on an opinion that the vaccine in my situation would be more helpful than harmful.

I respect your decision to not get the vaccine. In fact I think it's honorable for anyone to refuse to do something they don't believe in.

The world needs more people like you who don't base their decisions on a narrow opinion or data set.

You've made your decision, and I've made mine. I am at peace with both.

reply to post by KSPigpen

I would leave you with a few questions, my friend. Why so many doses? Why 200 million? Why so few? Who are the 100 million 'expendable?' Have they been honest with us about the severity of h1n1? When did we learn to have 'faith' in the fornication of big pharma and the US government?

These are excellent questions my friend.

I can't answer them, but for the record I think Big Pharma is an evil entity and they have way too much influence on our government.

Some of the biggest campaign contributors are pharmaceutical companies. And why not? If you can get government to let you charge $16 per pill for something that costs less than a cent to make then you aren't a good capitalist if you don't spread the wealth.

It would be very hard for the CDC/WHO to be dishonest about the severity and virulence of this disease because there are so many of us watching through critical eyes and alternative methods.

I think everyone can agree that this thing is spreading like wildfire, but it is less severe than even seasonal flu.

If it is a bio-weapon (and I am undecided on this) it sucks as one.

Wouldn't it make more sense to release avian flu or another strain that is more virulent and much more severe if your intention was to kill people off?

I have a sincere distrust of our government and the government had no influence on my decision.

FWIW, I am a card-carrying dues-paying Libertarian.

I will follow this with what we believe in.

Libertarian Platform

A few of the finer points:

As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

We believe that respect for individual rights is the essential precondition for a free and prosperous world, that force and fraud must be banished from human relationships, and that only through freedom can peace and prosperity be realized.

Consequently, we defend each person's right to engage in any activity that is peaceful and honest, and welcome the diversity that freedom brings. The world we seek to build is one where individuals are free to follow their own dreams in their own ways, without interference from government or any authoritarian power.

Maybe surprising to some, since they have viewed me as a government hack.

Statement of Principles

We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely,

(1) the right to life -- accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others;

(2) the right to liberty of speech and action -- accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and

(3) the right to property -- accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals.

People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

One of the most important parts of the Libertarian platform is the support for Personal Rights:

Individuals should be free to make choices for themselves and to accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual's right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices.

Freedom of Expression:

We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.

Privacy:

We support the protections provided by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, and property. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.

Rights and Discrimination:

We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation. Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs.

I offer these as examples of my beliefs, just to point out that it would go against my belief system to judge those of you who don't get vaccinated.

Just because I dislike opinions that I see as fearmongering and irrational, I still believe vigorously in your right to express them.

[edit on 10/12/09 by emsed1]