Michel Moore gets destroyed in a debate about capitalism

Originally posted by Alxandro
Geez, he loves France so much, yet he still lives in the US and hangs out with his Capitalist buddies.
Pay no attention to the fat man wearing the cap.

Hey wait a sec, he looks just like the KoolAid character.

[sarcasm]Excellent rebuttal! You clearly have a lot to add to the discussion and many well defined points.[/sarcasm]

You have done and excellent job providing an example of an Ad hominem argument.

Please try to use some critical thinking when posting and avoid the fallacious argument forms.

so many pathetic posts. I didn't realize we had so many experts on social-economical constructs. Michael Moore is better than a lot of people; he has worked hard for good causes that affect hard working people more than anyone (most likely) on this thread. Sure he makes some stuff up (based on bad facts) but who doesn't? Who is perfect? Who is actually altruistic? It doesn't exist. Get off your high horse and come back down to reality. We are all connected. Billionaires-Millionaires-Middle Class-Poor, we are all connected to much larger things than we know.

Let’s talk about the Environment Collapse that is coming oh say around (2015) that will make the little 2008 non-tangible, irreality, faux-collapse of our modern day life, look like a drop in the bucket of the sh-it storm were are going to have to deal with.

Michael Moore is a stand up guy, hands down... Anyone who just sees him as a Celebrity and/or Pseudo-Celebrity, shame on you for being so disconnected from the spirituality of things which are bigger than the singularity that is you. These movies, as well as many others of the last 10 years have opened many eyes, however, because of the power structures as they are, it is against the psychotic vested shareholder interested to look at the bigger picture. There are too many of us, moving too fast, consuming too much. All that awaits is slumber.

Mr. Moore I salute and respect you, even if sometimes you get some of your facts wrong, your only human. Sorry if I this seems a little nonsensical..

reply to post by Maximus_Prime


Michael Moore is nothing but a Poverty Pimp who, in this case, happens to be white.
He makes his millions from the same people he exploits, the "disenfranchised".

reply to post by Alxandro

What does the colour of his skin got to do with this? What are you attempting to imply?

Have you read any of Mr Moore's books? Well here comes a factoid for you - during the first term of the Bush Junior years you may recall that Bush created a tax break for the rich of which Mr Moore openly admits he was a benefactor. He invested his money in his business - he hired a team of employees who were of the majority of ethnic races to make a point!

[edit on 9-10-2009 by freeradical]

Yeah we should all go back to slavery days,hell at least the slaves got adequate housing, food, healthcare, and clothing, At least the whippings woud be better than the beat down psychologically that we deal with now... I'm being sarcastic, but it's true, most peoplehere just think the working class who just can't get ahead because of corporate greed are their little personal slaves. This is what's wrong with America. Everyone is out for themselves and anyone who isn't is just their stool to the top of the glass ceiling. I don't know how they sleep at night.

reply to post by Alxandro


It’s not so simple, to group Mr. Moore into the gutter with those who prey on the disenfranchised. 25 million, what does that even mean? Does that make him a have and thus evil? I am curious what is your level of education and why you along with countless other chose to hate this guy so much, is it cause he carved his own path? Maybe you hate white people (which honestly don’t exist, have you ever seen a white person? (The skin is more pink you know.)

I will believe in capitalism when Government doesn't control us to buy our medicine from other countries, or when they build the roads for Big corporations and we have to foot the bill. Utilities that we paid for it and the elite took control of it. I will believe in capitalism when they have competition and not to allow Chevron and Amoco to merge to make it the biggest Corporation in the world. Chevron doesn't have to tell the Government that they need the oil of Iraq and Iraq has to be invaded. But we have to foot the bill for the invasion and like wise schemes. We are seeing the Mafia of twenties to control big Corporations and become a threat to the Government such as Obama cannot get single payer health plan even though he repeatedly said that Government will not pay a dime in the system. So the government is controlled by the Mafia of our time. And in turn we are controlled by them. This is how they rob the middle class.

Wow. I'm not a Michael Moore fan but I think I'll dish out the cash and see this movie now. Thanks to the OP for bringing this to my attention! SF.

Seems like so many of you "I hate capitalism" people sure have no problem benefiting from it. You are using a BBS based on Capitalism. Now whose the hypocrite?

Moore is as well. He is just saying this BS to lure more people into watching his movies. He has got your number. You who buy his movies for what ever reason. Any press, is good press as long as it bring attention to the movies and CHA CHING! People will go out and buy them to see what all the hype is about.

I didn't really feel he was "Destroyed" by any remarks or questions, but he certainly didn't do a great job articulating an answer about what he really means or wants. His message is still contradictory, since on the one hand he says he wants everyone to have a say, but on the other says he holds out hope for government. I don't think hes educated or even really knows what he wants, hes just angry like most of us and wants something to change, for that I do commend him.

WOW, I don't think I've ever seen anyone go from one side to the other, then back, and then back once again to the opposite side all in a matter of
5 minutes of blathering.

He points out all the good things about a "democracy", and slams socialism/communism(in a terrible Soviet accent, I think thats what he was trying to do). Only to go on a 3 minute rant at the end about all the great things you get with socialism/communism.

Whoa, this guy doesn't now where he stands.

As long as he's makeing money it's all good. I don't wanna hear from this guy. He's rolling in cash, he's a millionairre, and he's gonna say the system doesn't wotrk, and he feels sooo bad for those college kids. Yea right, sure you do Mike.

I'd rather hear from someone I can relate to, and thier thoughts on the matter. Because this guy is makeing money in this f'd up system and talking about how bad it is. How would he know? But he still sits there and basically says we should out the current government and socialism is the way to go!

Haha, if that happened, Micheal Moore wouldn't be makeing 25million dollars a movie. He'd be taxed out the butt, and He WOULD complain. But in his fantasy vision of France, people pay thier taxes and don't complain, or wait yes they do riot. But not about taxes. Oh? This is all news to me.

So ideally you should go to University in France, get you first job there. Make some money, then come to America and re-invent the lightbulb WTH????, or cure cancer, or build a bullet train(thats super important right now LOL). OK, I'll get right on that Mike.

He's out of his mind, he puts makeing a better lightbulb, or a faster train, right up there with curing Carncer? haha...I nearly had coffee come out my nose when he said that.

BTW- Very Misleading Title, I really Wanted to see Micheal Moore get Destroyed. What a gyp!

reply to post by ldyserenity


I agree. I don't see where he got DESTROYED. Some of us are well over 19-20 now and have seen some of what life brings your way. I like some of what he has to say; just like I like some of what peole like Ron Paul has to say. Atleast these people are doing something about it. What do we do? ...sit here and argue or bash eachother.
25 mil - some kid athletes get that for signinig their name...

I missed the part where Moore gets torn up. I suppose you hear what you want to hear. It seems to me that the smear campaign that was run on Mr. Moore after the release of Fahrenheit 9/11 worked worked.

Yeah, I didn't see Michael Moore getting destroyed in that clip. If anything, I got more of a sense of two individuals trying to reach a meeting of the minds.
One thing I will say for Moore is that he isn't afraid to move outside of a few rehearsed talking points.


I do agree with the student that the problem is more corporatism than capitalism. However, I believe Moore called the film Capitalism because American capitalism has degenerated into corporatism.

Because, Americans can be a bit too literal at times, if Moore had called it Corporatism, I could just see someone blustering: "Corporatism, what's that got to do with America? We're capitalists here." Making the title Capitalism, makes this more of an indictment of the American system of capitalism, which is actually corporatism.

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Regardless of politics, I'd hate this guy anyways. He's just a slimeball who makes millions off of his "movies" and lives the very life that he insults and preaches against.

Wow. How exactly do you know WHAT kind of life he lives? I know lots of people who make 250-400K a year and have very simple, conscientious lifestyles. Do you think that a certain income guarantees a certain value set or lifestyle? Are you basing your vective on some first-hand knowledge, or just a pre-conceived bias? All entirely 'regardless of politics' of course.

reply to post by Wimbly


I fail to see where Michael Moore got "destroyed". Sounds more like the "words" game to you, but if thats your view.

I fail to see how the fact corporate influence in DC proves no connection to capitalism. Capitalism, the unregulated market allows corporations to freely mingle in DC. Its that very system, unregulated system, that has allowed much of the politicians be lobbied.

Originally posted by corusso
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

I agree. I don't see where he got DESTROYED. Some of us are well over 19-20 now and have seen some of what life brings your way. I like some of what he has to say; just like I like some of what peole like Ron Paul has to say. Atleast these people are doing something about it. What do we do? ...sit here and argue or bash eachother.
25 mil - some kid athletes get that for signinig their name...

What's so sad is some of those people who are saying he is wrong really have no idea, they live in their rose colored bubble of safety, when they really have no idea that their are those with money like that who are not only hurting their employees but even their own families not all the rich elite send their kids to college, most of the time they sleep with their secretaries or somoene else in the workplace then leave those families and never pay a red cent in child supportand they get away wth it cause they can afford the good lawyers and know the woman can't because she makes less and already is taking care of the expenses by the time it gets to court. Most elites will not even take care of their own that's the real truth, how do you expect for them to give one iota about us bums on the sidelines?

reply to post by Southern Guardian

I fail to see how the fact corporate influence in DC proves no connection to capitalism. Capitalism, the unregulated market allows corporations to freely mingle in DC. Its that very system, unregulated system, that has allowed much of the politicians be lobbied.

I agree somewhat SG. Corporatism and Capitalism are linked....but Socialism and Corporatism are also linked....after all...the government doesn't make money...big business and banks do. BTW..I'm not making an argument for either side here.

CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!!

We need it. It's a necessity and I don't know how anyone can trust ANY legislation passed through Congress without this happening.

Corporatism....it's the beast that needs to be slayed. We don't enforce anti-trust laws anymore...we don't tariff imports near as much as we should....and those things hurt the average American...which I know you know.

People just need to look..

What are the TWO things no media talks about? Corporatism....and NAFTA.

That's all we need to know. They do talk about the Federal Reserve though...and now I'm wondering why.

Maybe the corporations and the other "elitists" are fighting for control over our money and taking from the bankers...since this is a joint effort by both Republicans and Democrats.

Edit to add:

What I believe is that big business needs a cap...too big to fail is too big to exist...but I also believe government should be limited in it's power as well. When either becomes too large...that becomes dangerous for all of us.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by David9176]

Originally posted by Wimbly
Its another clue that Democrats and our media really do want socialism, or something close to it.

Blah blah, Republicans want facism, etc etc.
Dems won, Reps lost, just deal with it. Send a cry letter to Glenn Beck and keep trolling off of a board which encourages substance.

reply to post by ldyserenity


Whoa!! Calm down Michael Moore!