Originally posted by redoubt

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

No -- they detected the flash of the impact exactly where they expected it, and they saw the crater in infrared exactly where they expected it (and also the size of the crater is what they expected...

...So, yes -- LCROSS did hit its target successfully.

Ummm... don't extraordinary claims deserve a little extraordinary proof? How about even a little proof?

Oh heck... I'll just believe on faith alone.

They showed the IR images of the impact flash and the crater IR image during the press conference on NASA-TV (which at this time is still ongoing). Is that enough evidence?

I suppose they could have easily "faked" those images, but then again, if they could do that, then they could easily "fake" an image of a plume in visible light and showed us that.

[edit on 10/9/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

What is the saying here at ATS? Pics or it didn't happen?Nough said.

Originally posted by genius/idoit
What is the saying here at ATS? Pics or it didn't happen?Nough said.

But there are pics...As I said, they showed a picture of the impact flash and the impact crater during the press conference that is happening right now.

Don't forget -- even a smaller-than-expected plume tells them a lot about the Moon. And the visible light cameras will tell them next to nothing, anyhow. The most important data to science is the spectrometer readings.

[edit on 10/9/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

If you people were babysitting and patrolling the playground, would you let the rug rats fire an M80? I think not

Hey, I'm not saying that NASA is faking anything. But personally, I think this little event has them on their heels and grasping at thin air. Understanding the impact potential and the resulting non event, I have to ask... what happened? And up to this moment, I have not seen or heard a satisfactory explanation.

So, I am left to fall upon faith in NASA that their weak imagery from what was really sound and robust resources, was just a fluke.

Did I hear that right? Did he say that the flash that Soylent Green keeps going on about could be a flaw in the image?

Seriously something is not right.

This is ridiculous NASA have been caught red handed again!!, I have been following this all day, it has been publicized all over the world, apparently it has happened! where are the LIVE VIDEOS!, there is something extraordinarily fishy unrolling before our eyes, but our lying eyes what do you believe?

Originally posted by redoubt
Hey, I'm not saying that NASA is faking anything. But personally, I think this little event has them on their heels and grasping at thin air. Understanding the impact potential and the resulting non event, I have to ask... what happened? And up to this moment, I have not seen or heard a satisfactory explanation.

So, I am left to fall upon faith in NASA that their weak imagery from what was really sound and robust resources, was just a fluke.

I don't understand why you think they "on their heels and grasping at thin air".

They collected a lot of spectrometer data, and they said preliminary analysis shows some very interesting things (such as sodium). They did fly through something because they got data in the spectrometer.

Just because visible light cameras didn't see an obvious plume doesn't mean that nothing happened. The plume could have been smaller than expected, which could mean it never got high enough to hit sunlight (remember, the crater is in total darkness).

Seeing the plume in visible light is not an important part of the mission to scientists -- although it may be "important" to the average citizen.

Originally posted by fieryjaguarpaw
Did I hear that right? Did he say that the flash that Soylent Green keeps going on about could be a flaw in the image?

I didn't hear that. The flash was large (multiple pixels in different gray scales) and happened exactly where and when it was expected, so it seems unlikely that it was a camera glitch.

The got spectrometer analysis of something that was probably a plume, but they haven't analyzed it yet.

They have just received that data a few hours ago -- there is still a lot of science to be done with that data before they can start talking about results.

Seriously something is not right.

This is just speculation, but maybe whats not right is that LCROSS perhaps hit dry solid bedrock -- which may not be the expected result, but that result itself is very interesting and telling to scientists.

[edit on 10/9/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

On the NASA TVcoverage, have you saw where the question was asked " Is water all you are looking for on the moon?"

The NASA expert stated' " No...we have several agendas with today's mision, and water is just one"

hmmmmmm...........

Originally posted by ButterCookie
On the NASA TVcoverage, have you saw where the question was asked " Is water all you are looking for on the moon?"

The NASA expert stated' " No...we have several agendas with today's mision, and water is just one"

hmmmmmm...........

Well, I certainly hope there was more science being done other than looking for water. The most important data -- the spectroscopic data -- should be able to tell them a lot of things -- not just the presence of hydrogen and oxygen.

It would be silly to send a spacecraft to the Moon and only do one scientific experiment.

[edit on 10/9/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

This is bull crap NASA just come clean!?

I heard there is Uranium on the moon as there is on the earth as originally the moon is part of earth.

I watched it live on the NASA link and there seemed to be an area on the outside of the crater which appeared green, the crater itself showed no IR signature. Maybe we needed to study what is around the crater, there is uranium up there.

Also there would be a slight difference in the physics of a meteor strike and a bomb strike as the meteor is organic matter and the bomb well is metallic, maybe if they didn't get a huge plume like they expected, maybe it is down to the chemical composition of the attacking object.

Also of notice is that metals conduct heat so whatever IR/heat/charge the bomb disturbed would be disappated into the satellite/bomb. So it is in my view as a chemist that the materials they are using has a lot to do with the lack of supposed plume of dust. Maybe it happens with more organic matter but quite evidently, if there was any heat as reaction would be letting out heat (exothermic) we would see this on a temperature gradient.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
I don't understand what you mean by a PR mess. They hit their target and collect a lot of data. The plume was expected to be so small that I'm not surprised the ground-based photos have not detected them yet. I expect that the plume will be visible after the photos are further processed.

Even if the wasn't a plume -- that's very telling to the scientists. That means that LCROSS did not hit water ice but instead hit hard bedrock. Either way -- no plume or big plume -- the result would be telling to scientists (even though the common person may find the result boring).

Come on now - NASA promised us a 6 mile plume now where is it!? Oh wait, I see in your statement above - they will "process" it into the pictures - with Photoshop!?!? You'd figure with all of the lunar landings that supposedly happened and all of the tests that they conducted that they would know WTF would happen if they fired a missile into the moon. So either .a) this mission failed, b.) they've never been to the moon and didn't know what to expect and got it wrong, or c.) the ETs living on the moon interecepted the missile and destroyed it. Any way you shake it, it still seems like a complete waste of money and resources.