Iran to 'blow up heart' of Israel if attacked

reply to post by flatratebanking!

You like quotes? Got a few for you.

"Opportunity in war is usually of greater value than bravery . . . terrain is often of more value than bravery . . . bravery is of more value than numbers." - Vegetiius

"There is only one tactical principle that is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the greatest amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." Patton

"Now philanthropists may easily imagine there is a skillful method of disarming and overcoming an enemy without causing great bloodshed, and that this is the proper tendency of the Art of War. However plausible this may appear, it is an error that must be extirpated . . . -Clausewitz

"One ought never turn one's back on a threatening danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you'll reduce the danger by half." -Winston Churchill

And finally one that can apply to preemptive strikes by nuclear weapons: "Therefore those who win every battle are not really skillful - those who render other's armies helpless without fighting are the best of all." - Sun Tzu

As we demonstrated with the destruction of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Ummm...you do know that Israel could nuke Russia back and Moscow, Sankt Peterburg, Novosibirsk, Nizhniy Novgorod, Yekaterinburg, Samara, Omsk, Kazan etc would cease to exist? You think Russia would risk that over Iran? You are crazy my friend.

Actually this is the most crazy thing of all that such a small, aparthied, racist country with criminals in charge, could be allowed to have so much power. We don't even know what they are capable of because unlike all other civilised countries this one wont tell us what they have and wont allow inspections.

It is so dangerous to the rest of us its just unbelievable.

reply to post by bigyin

It's not dangerous to anyone.

Unless you want war with Israel.

They don't threaten, they don't rant.

They just counterattack each time attacked, and do very well.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by bigyin

 

It's not dangerous to anyone.

Unless you want war with Israel.

They don't threaten, they don't rant.

They just counterattack each time attacked, and do very well.

lol, somehow I doubt any Palestinians would agree with you.

Can you tell me why Israel is allowed to keep it's nuclear capabilities secret ?

reply to post by bigyin

Those Palestinians were formerly Jordanians. Jordan got it's ass kicked in 1948-49 when it joined the coalition of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, and they ATTACKED Israel.

Jordan got it's ass kicked again in 1967, when it hooked up with Syria and Egypt, to "soak the ground with Israeli blood."

Each time Jordan attacked Israel, Jordan lost territory.

I think it's fine for the Israelis to have nukes, since it was their brethren who helped develop the first atomic weapons.

Some of the most intelligent, productive, and brilliant folks win the world. Without a doubt.

Why doesn't Jordan allow the Right of Return to the Palestinians? They have plenty of land and could set aside a new state?
Oh, well, that wouldn't allow Israel to be the target of Islamic aggression.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by bigyin

 

Those Palestinians were formerly Jordanians. Jordan got it's ass kicked in 1948-49 when it joined the coalition of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, and they ATTACKED Israel.

Jordan got it's ass kicked again in 1967, when it hooked up with Syria and Egypt, to "soak the ground with Israeli blood."

Each time Jordan attacked Israel, Jordan lost territory.

I think it's fine for the Israelis to have nukes, since it was their brethren who helped develop the first atomic weapons.

Some of the most intelligent, productive, and brilliant folks win the world. Without a doubt.

You didn't answer my question ?

This is what I hear from Iran:

blah, blah, blah, INFIDEL, blah, blah, blah, blah, ZIONIST, blah, blah, blah, GREAT SATAN, blah, blah, blah.............................................................

It would be such a shame to see this come to what both sides seem to desperately want. I could definitely live my entire life without ever knowing of the Glass Desert of Earth. I hope I never see the day some of the least truly reflected dreams of man realize themselves.

All my love and peace to all involved. May they find a place in them that moves beyond such separating forces.

reply to post by princeofpeace


Israel is rumored to have how many missiles? Russia has a missile defense system intended to ward off how many potential American missiles? Did you miss the point before?
Moscow has spent decades preparing to handle a thousand or so incoming missiles from the U.S. So Israeli fires a hundred or two. And? What do you believe will get through?
Expecting a possible attack against their ME allies the Russians are already monitoring Israel. Any missile launch will be detected almost immediately. The Russian mobile atomic weapons will be launched and Israel, for all practical purposes, will cease to exist within minutes.
I pointed out in my last post that time from launch to time of impact is what, I forget, two or three minutes? What do you suppose the flight time is for a missile from Israel to Moscow? Its launch will be detected in seconds and its flight path determined in a few minutes. Anti-missile defenses will not even be needed as Russian jets shoot them down at their leisure.
Try to remember that reality is not obligated to meet our hopes, wishes, desires or fantasies in any way. That Israel would stand the slightest chance against Russia is about as realistic as Mexico taking on the U.S.
Sure, a lot of Mexicans might fantasize about it but it has nothing to do with reality.
Will the U.S. begin WW III to defend Israel? The question isn't even relevant as by the time the U.S. becomes aware of what happened there will no longer be an Israel to defend. Better to ask will the U.S. begin WW III to avenge Israel? Would NATO back such an act of idiocy? Would the U.S. attempt it without NATO backing? Would China, dependent on Iran for oil, join the battle on our side? Would the EU decide if the U.S. starts a war with Russia and missiles fly both way then the odds are that the U.S., even if it wins, will no longer be the number one superpower but rather, just another third world country, no need to suck up to them any more and so 'we wish you well but you're on your own.
There would be a lot of political posturing, a lot of saber rattling, but in the end nothing would change except Israel would be out of the picture. A radioactive wasteland.
Anything else is little boy fantasies.

Russia's missile defense systems is not that advanced-sorry. You do remember that the US Star Wars program is what spent the USSR into oblivion and its ultimate break up right? They have a defense system designed to destroy THOUSANDS of incoming missiles?

You need to provide a lot of proof on that. The US has spent billions on systems designed thus far to only eliminate a handful or a few dozen at the most. But Russia has a shield designed to destroy thousands of incoming missiles? OKAY.

Israel YES could no doubt succeed in delivering nukes (whether in missile form your guess is as good as mine) to Russia and their major cities. In fact they may already have some devices there. =)

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
reply to post by princeofpeace

 

Israel is rumored to have how many missiles? Russia has a missile defense system intended to ward off how many potential American missiles? Did you miss the point before?
Moscow has spent decades preparing to handle a thousand or so incoming missiles from the U.S. So Israeli fires a hundred or two. And? What do you believe will get through?
Expecting a possible attack against their ME allies the Russians are already monitoring Israel. Any missile launch will be detected almost immediately. The Russian mobile atomic weapons will be launched and Israel, for all practical purposes, will cease to exist within minutes.
I pointed out in my last post that time from launch to time of impact is what, I forget, two or three minutes? What do you suppose the flight time is for a missile from Israel to Moscow? Its launch will be detected in seconds and its flight path determined in a few minutes. Anti-missile defenses will not even be needed as Russian jets shoot them down at their leisure.
Try to remember that reality is not obligated to meet our hopes, wishes, desires or fantasies in any way. That Israel would stand the slightest chance against Russia is about as realistic as Mexico taking on the U.S.
Sure, a lot of Mexicans might fantasize about it but it has nothing to do with reality.
Will the U.S. begin WW III to defend Israel? The question isn't even relevant as by the time the U.S. becomes aware of what happened there will no longer be an Israel to defend. Better to ask will the U.S. begin WW III to avenge Israel? Would NATO back such an act of idiocy? Would the U.S. attempt it without NATO backing? Would China, dependent on Iran for oil, join the battle on our side? Would the EU decide if the U.S. starts a war with Russia and missiles fly both way then the odds are that the U.S., even if it wins, will no longer be the number one superpower but rather, just another third world country, no need to suck up to them any more and so 'we wish you well but you're on your own.
There would be a lot of political posturing, a lot of saber rattling, but in the end nothing would change except Israel would be out of the picture. A radioactive wasteland.
Anything else is little boy fantasies.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by princeofpeace]

[edit on 2-11-2009 by princeofpeace]

Originally posted by Common Sense says...
This is what I hear from Iran:

blah, blah, blah, INFIDEL, blah, blah, blah, blah, ZIONIST, blah, blah, blah, GREAT SATAN, blah, blah, blah.............................................................

Yep and you notice that you can't hear Russia because of all the screaming in Ukraine? Funny how that works, eh?

Just a point or two.
I did not say Russia could stop thousands of incoming missiles. I said they were preparing to deal with thousands of incoming missiles. How many can they track? Stop watching American propaganda which has you believing that each of these must be countered by some ground launched anti-missile missile.
With flight times of over an hour an air to air jet launched missile is more than enough to take one down.

But...I had not thought to fight the whole war out here, still if you'd like. Now redo the scenario but after Israel's first launch, amongst those missiles headed for Tel Aviv and military targets, include a few high altitude air burst intended to produce EMP waves. The Israeli missiles become a collection of useless hardware with their circuits fried. Israel will see it coming and launch within 2 minutes? And you are not fantasizing?

Are you familiar with Shabtai Kalmanoich? Comes from Lithuania in 1971, works his way up in the Israeli government. All the time he is actually a mole working for Russia. How many Russians emigrated to Israel? Do you have any idea how thoroughly that govt must be infiltrated? Do you believe there is a military or missile base in Israel the Russians are not aware of?
Two minutes after launch and Israel would not have a single missile to launch back. Fantasies die hard, I know. Israel fighting or black-mailing Russia? Pure fantasy.
You can tell by the way Russia has backed out of all those arms deals with Syria that Israel disapproved of that they are shaking in their pants.
Wait a minute. They didn't back out. In fact I think they ignored Israel and did whatever they wanted to. Slight conflict of image here don't you think?

Look at the history of the sunburst missile in the Falklands conflict. Compare the number of Argentina's sunbursts with Irans. Examine the geography around the Persian Gulf. Notice the sandstone cliffs in which tunnels can be carved with little more than a dinner spoon. Thousands of tunnels. Which ones will the sunbursts be launched from? Who said earlier that Iran's missiles would be taken out before this all began? The only guarantee in a war against Iran is that the entire American fleet in the Persian Gulf would cease to exist within an hour. All American ground forces would be left without resupply and air support. We have not even gotten into the point that China now sees Iran's oil as Chinese oil. They need it and want it. You believe they would let the U.S. stop the flow?

I don't know why I bother. Most here seem to believe we are in some kind of John Wayne movie and do not want to deal with reality. They will find some alleged superiority of American/Israeli forces and hang on to it for dear life ignoring everything else.
Not one poster has considered the size and efficiency of the Russian Intelligence network in Israel. Not one has considered how the American fleet will handle 3-400 incoming sunburst missiles. I think I mentioned this on a thread once before and some 'John Wayne' said some nonsense about how we could take them down. Argentina had 5! That's it. Just 5. Not hundreds that are a generation or two more advanced than what Argentina used. But with only five of these older types a British battleship lies under the water sunk off the Falklands.

Everyone assumes both Russia and China will be too intimidated by America and will sit meekly by while we destroy their vital interest. Get over it. We don't intimidate anyone any more. We are unable to establish clear cut victories over third world countries. We are going to take on Russia and China? We couldn't even beat tiny North Vietnam! And if it were not for the continued presence of our troops on the ground, Iraq and Afghanistan would be back under the control of their original owners.

Reality. In minutes our allies in Israel, in hours our Navy and in days our ground forces in the ME are out of the equation. None of you want to deal with it seriously, that's your option. How many of you are aware that in computer simulated wars fought by our military the only way we are ever able to win is to usually resurrect some sunken fleet or 'pretend' some ground forces had not been taken out earlier. They don't advertise that fact.
Sure we can do it. Sure we can win. Just as long as our enemies allow us a half dozen do-overs. As long as China will agree that 'pretend the 5th fleet was not sunk' is an acceptable military strategy.

You have me curious now. On what do you base your belief in America's overwhelming military superiority that we could fight four or five different wars simultaneously? Why do the reports by our military leaders dealing with our potential to fight just a second major conflict not make you aware that adding three more wars against Iran, Russia, China and probably you can throw Syria in there too, might stretch our forces rather thin especially considering the probability there will be no 'allies' involved to assist us? Are we living in the same world?

reply to post by bigyin

I have no idea how to answer your question.

What Israeli nukes?

reply to post by Robin Goodfellow


Israel will not fire nuclear armed missiles for delivery into Russia.

Israel already has assets in different nations of interest. No better underground in the world.

And brilliant!

Ever see Israel do one, single thing they were expected to do, in the manner expected?

Yeah.

No one else has either.

I ask people from both sides of the fence to consider this whole issue. Who would really gain if Iran attacked Israel or if Israel attacked Iran? Who would really stand to lose a lot? We all know the serious consequences each side would face if they were to launch a significant attack on the enemy. This idea for an attack by either side on either side is very bad for the peace and stability of the world as a whole.

Perhaps, but hints of suitcase nukes does not appear to have had any effect yet. As I've already pointed out Russia seems to have no problem ignoring Israel's objections and continues to arm their ME allies.
I think this is a fairly good piece of evidence that the alleged ability of Israel to blackmail or intimidate Russia is a myth.
Has their been a single action by Russia bearing any resemblance to a nation backing down on a position out of fear of a military confrontation? Does the image of Israel as an enemy to be feared exist anywhere other than in the minds of its supporters?
How many are aware that the U.S.S.R.'s refusal to sign nuclear arms treaties had nothing to do with the Soviet Union being a war mongering nation? That they refused because these treaties allowed for mutual inspections and such inspections would have revealed the Soviet arsenal of thousands of nuclear weapons would have been revealed to be maybe half a dozen or so? The Soviet's arsenal actually consisted of rumor and bluff.
That is what I believe Israel has done. Like putting up a sign "Beware, this house protected by....." without actually installing any alarm system, hoping the sign will be enough.
Israel may have four or five nuclear weapons but its rumored arsenal of 200+ weapons is probably a myth and if this is the case Russia is aware of it.
We are each entitled to our opinions, but cold objective evaluation of past actions makes it very clear that neither the Soviet Union and now Russia consider Israel to be any more of a threat than any other third world country.
Let us move beyond opinions which are meaningless. What does it matter if 'you' think the threat is real if the intelligence departments of the relevant countries do not? Let us wait for some indication that Russia is backing down from any position out of fear of the 'Israeli threat'.
I have yet to see such an instance. have you?
The idea is laughable.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by bigyin

 

I have no idea how to answer your question.

What Israeli nukes?

The question was not whether or not Israel has nukes, it was:

Can you tell me why Israel is allowed to keep it's nuclear capabilities secret ?

It's funny how Iran is a signatory of the Non-Proliferation Treaty along with hundreds of other nations while Israel is not, and Israel is the one making these constant accusations... god-like hypocrisy!

reply to post by serbsta


Israel is a country in a state of cold war with Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and the Hamas. There are about 50 other countries whose governments refuse trade or diplomatic ties with Israel, and whose populations would rejoice in the streets if their leaders destroyed Israel tomorrow. Asking Israel to sign the NPT or allow inspectors into its nuclear facilities is asking Israel to lay its cards on the table. Israel, for very obvious and elementary reasons, is unwilling and unable to do this.

Equally, Iran as a sovereign country has the right to keep its own nuclear ambitions secret from the prying eyes of the "international community" - but it's too late, because they already signed the NPT which means they are obliged to cooperate with the IAEA.

Hope that clears things up for you

But haven't other countries 'withdrawn' from signed treaties and agreements? So wouldn't Iran and Syria have the right to announce they are 'withdrawing' from that particular treaty?
And why should Israel, not being part of that agreement, have the right to object if any member is not fulfilling their obligations. Since they are not a member they should have no say in the matter.