God, the Universe, & Everything Else

I found this fascinating to watch and thought i would share with the rest who haven't already seen it.

It features Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking and Artur C. Clarke.

I enjoyed the video. I struggle a lot with origins of the Universe because from my perspective the Universe is not physical, rather dreamlike in origin.

Looking at the physical world from the perspective of a dream is not a usual vantage point that I encounter, but I admit that I see it only from that vantage point. What that implies is, even right now we are coexisting in a dream that we believe is our physical reality.

Even though all the properties of our reality stand within a context of material science, the greater reality is how all of that data is merely organized thoughts projecting from our subjective vantage points in a virtual reality system. Physical reality is a belief system that we are currently interfaced in through our biological filter we call a body.

Was there a big bang? Or did we simply log onto a virtual reality simulation to experience a biological life we now identify as our current self? Is this reality just a holographic movie that we are simply ingesting as consciousness? Is it a type of dream we are having? What is the outer rim of reality? It's not physical matter.

If you are wondering why I see this [reality] as a dream, and not physical matter reality, I can elaborate in great detail if needed.

Needless to say, it abstracts the notion of a big bag as being a physical event and rather a created and directed phenomena of consciousness.

I was thinking about how to put my thoughts on this topic into words, but then the poster above me (youaredreaming) explained it very well.

I to am more leaning towards the idea of a holographic universe instead of a created one / accidental universe / big bang theory.

Stephen Hawking, no doubt is a great scientist with a large IQ. But he is known to change his mind quite often, then change it again... and again. All he presents are theories (about big bang, dimentions,...). Ok, he has all the time to think and think and brainstorm some more but in the end, what he does is theorizing.

Now Big bang (in a very simplistic view): once there was an explosion and out of that came everything we know. (fine by me). But what caused it? They didn't found the source or any god particle.
Why is it asumed that whatever was before big bang, is gone, Why is it assumed that maybe there wasn't anything before it? (which isn't logical).
If an exlosion wipes away an entire town, it doesn't mean the rest of the world isn't still there.
Why can't our Universe, with a possible Bang as cause, exist within something else? Or 'next to' something else?
Why can't it be created "by" something else?
Why does it seem like all the other options are ignored by science?





[edit on 9/10/2009 by GypsK]

@GypsK: Why is it asumed that whatever was before big bang, is gone?

I think it warrants investigation as clearly something resided prior to the big bang, but I think the lack of interest is because it no longer exists, there is no valid information to build a picture other then raw theory.

However, if this is a created reality system, which it is. [Implying designed by intelligence] Then the Big Bang is merely a intelligently designed piece of logic programmed into the software of this matrix we are in.

We are in a virtual world looking at the virtual characters and origins not seeing the holographic projector behind the curtain. That is where I now look.

Originally posted by GypsK
Why is it asumed that whatever was before big bang, is gone, Why is it assumed that maybe there wasn't anything before it? (which isn't logical).
If an exlosion wipes away an entire town, it doesn't mean the rest of the world isn't still there.
Why can't our Universe, with a possible Bang as cause, exist within something else? Or 'next to' something else?
Why can't it be created "by" something else?
Why does it seem like all the other options are ignored by science?

Because answering those questions invokes the supernatural, and that makes scientists wary and uncomfortable.

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming.

We are in a virtual world looking at the virtual characters and origins not seeing the holographic projector behind the curtain. That is where I now look.

What if the projector isn't 'behind a curtain'? What if we are the projectors, projecting all simultanious: the illusion of a Universe?

Originally posted by GypsK
What if the projector isn't 'behind a curtain'? What if we are the projectors, projecting all simultanious: the illusion of a Universe?

We are certainly the projectors, in my terms the dreamers. I am not sure to what extent your experience is with precognitive dreaming. That particular brand of dreaming enlists a certain revelation about this projector and this illusion we have right now.

Running analog to physical reality is a dreamstate by which we also reside in and participate. From this dreamstate stems a variety of experiences and access to information, some of which resides in a probability field which describes the origin of our precognitive dreams.

Applying that knowledge to right now, and this conversation existed first in a probability state, and has now become actualized in our perceived physical reality as a result of our current consciousness finally attuning to and catching up to the original precognitive dream wave.

If you can follow this logic, where reality first exists as a dreamed of probability that at some point becomes actualized into this moment right now. You are embarking on my area of experience.

If you have had precognitive dreams, then understanding the relationship between physical reality as a dream becomes inherintly tangible within your current scope of experiences as you have already remembered an outer-rim impression of the greater reality.

Therefor, the origin of this moment right "now" originated as a probability within a myriad of dream of experiences. And for what ever purpose it serves, has actualized into the illusion of our physical experience.

However, that does not dismiss that the origin of this being a dream makes this any less that same dream if you catch my drift. Generally what makes this seem different is our belief system and lack of experience with precognitive dreaming.

Which for the most part, we are 99.9% illiterate of such experiences ( so it seems ).

In the end, we are the projector as we are the dreamer.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


I'm a bit 'experienced' when it comes to the dreamstate, but no experience what so ever with precognitive dreams. I've tried, without success.

The analog dreamstate you mention, I do experienced that on a daily basis, only I access it through visual meditative states. I've written a post that deals with it called "the realm inside yourself".
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I've always looked at it as if it is an entire different dimention, a source of information,yes, but I never looked at it as a 'probability or posibility field'.
The theory is intersting though and maybe even a link that I was missing so far, so I will certainly look into that further.

I think for most part we do think alike, using different terms.
In my terms that would be something like 'thought creates reality' and visualized thoughts creates more probability on a wave of infinite posibilities.

It's a bit hard for me to explain in my own language, let alone in English... there just don't seem to be enough words for that just yet

[edit on 9/10/2009 by GypsK]

Precognitive dreaming can be elusive as many of us will have the after effect remembered as Deja Vu with a slight hint that we may have had a dream like the current event.

They can be both literal and symbolic as the dreamstate as you know comes with a lot more then just access to precognitive information. Largely, we personify the dreamstate and lose the objectivity required to have literal precognition.

At any rate, the process of dreaming does allow us to navigate or have access to this precognitive information from time to time. I have had a lot of experience with it, very little experience controlling it or consciously directing it. I tend to just end up there with enough memory to connect the dots when the there becomes this here.

It does come down to thought creates reality. And that reality is simply organized thought. After all dreams are just thoughts. The process however of how they organize and come true into an actualized reality is something I still struggle with because I can see the thoughts, but when they are actualizing into reality I have zero effect on them other then just observation.

I do however have enough experience to say this much, I have not only had precognitive dreams, but I have had lucid precognitive dreams and managed in some cases to influence changes to the initial precognitive dream to see the effects of those changes actualize here.

It leaves a lot to ponder because the scope of reality is so vast, the seemingly random and chaotic flow of time and space, particles and forces implies on the surface that this is not a dream, yet the lucid precognitive dreams I have had completely strip that illusion down and clarify that this is a dream.

I do struggle with it, but it's a learning process.

reply to post by GypsK


In the same light, why can't the universe have always just have existed as there is no evidence that anything can't not exist? Why isn't this option explored by everyone who demands a created universe?

The problem with a 'dreamed up' universe that I have is, even in a conscious lucid dream state, we can change that dreams reality. However in a conscious waking state, we fail to do the same, suggesting to me that the two types of 'reality' are inherently different and separate from one another.

The big bang is just a guess based upon the assumption that redshift is an unchanging constant through the vastness of the cosmos. It has been shown to be variable in nature, and so it may not be accurate enough to use as a method for devising a big bang scenario.

I personally think the universe is much much larger than we can currently see and has always existed. I wish I had sound though so I could watch that video!

reply to post by sirnex


I will argue that there are dreams you will have even when lucid that you cannot change. They simply will not respond like other dreams to your influences. In my observations, we progress from subjective dreaming towards an objective type of dream. The more objective or shared the dream becomes, the harder it is for us to influence change.

The dream reality is really a non-physical reality. It exists of a pure mind generated state as the product of consciousness. More so, the dream state is a gateway into many layers and patterns of experiences that extend far beyond the details of our current Universe. It is simply infinite and astronomical in design. It has no limits short of the ones we impose.

So despite not having the fancy free control we have in a purely subjective dream when we are here focused in this actualized state doesn't really change the nature of what this is. Now I realize that many of us when focused here are totally oblivious to this other reality we reside in.

I call it dream illiteracy and it simply doesn't merit any worth for people who lack the knowledge, the experience to venture forward into these theories if they themselves lack the memory and interactions required to have precognition dreams available to this focused part of their human consciousness.

Let me at least share my experiences because they will illustrate my point better.

In one dream, I am in Vancouver walking on to the skytrain and I realize I am dreaming. I decide to observe the dream and watch as people pass me by. I travel to the Granville station and exit the train, continue my journey down Robson and meet up with my brother and go for a beer. The entire time I am lucid and I know I am dreaming.

In reality, many weeks later I walk up a flight of concrete stairs to ride the sky train, the moment the synchronicity between the precognitive dream information, and the physical event occurs, I realize I am dreaming and the same faculty of lucid realization is there as it was in the dream. Void of repeating details or expanding them, it was the same lucid dream now actualized as reality and every detail was completely literal and accurate from my perspective.

Many of these types of dreams would occur, in one case I would actually create the dream seemingly from scratch and that dream also would come true and actualize here. That dream would be the one that locked me permemently in a state where I could no longer dismiss physical reality as anything but a dream.

In certain cases I was able to influence change in the dream before it came true and those changes occurred here. Those dreams simply enforced and validated the fact that this reality in no shadow of a doubt for me at least, is a type of dream.

The scale and magnitude of this is totally outside the scope of what we believe reality to be. That said, I have met numerous numbers of people who have remembered enough precognitive dreams to show that the potential for understanding and exploring it further beyond myself is clearly there.

So for me, based on these experiences, I can say to myself that this is a dream, and originates from dreaming as I have consciously observed the creative process and backdrop of reality pre actualization. That all reality flows from consciousness, and it is consciousness which manufactures the reality of which it experiences itself in.

I don't expect many people who lack those experiences to easily jump to the same conclusions that I have. It really is a tremendous leap in logic as it defies everything we are told to believe and out right more people then not will swear this isn't a dream.

I've heard it all before... both here and both in lucid dreams when I tell a dream character the dream is a dream, and they swear it isn't. Funny how that is, when we think a dream is not a dream. Happens quite often. Seems we like to forget that fact.

Originally posted by YouAreDreaming
I enjoyed the video. I struggle a lot with origins of the Universe because from my perspective the Universe is not physical, rather dreamlike in origin.

Looking at the physical world from the perspective of a dream is not a usual vantage point that I encounter, but I admit that I see it only from that vantage point. What that implies is, even right now we are coexisting in a dream that we believe is our physical reality.

...

Needless to say, it (this view of reality as a dream) abstracts the notion of a big bag as being a physical event and rather a created and directed phenomena of consciousness.

I enjoyed the video also, except Arthur C. Clarke didn't say much.

Your view above is an interesting concept and not that unusual. It could easily be said, I'm sure, that you are a philosopher at heart as opposed to a physical scientist. But you're definitely in good company. It's a concept that Hindus believed in, that everything in our Universe, past, present and future, is but one incarnation of the Great BRAMHA. His Life is said to have commenced with sounding of a great Drum. And the Christian myth of creation says that the very first act of God was also the sounding forth of a great sound, in the form of the words "Let there be Light". One can easily assume that before this sound was pronounced it had to be preceded by a thought in the Mind of God. But those concepts are left for the philosopher, mosts cosmologists don't attempt to speculate what God is or isn't, let alone what God was doing before the Big Bang. At the end of the video Hawking didn't want to speculate about whether God could create a rock so heavy that even He couldn't lift it Himself, but he did say the following (implying a thinking and organized Life behind creation):

Hawking said

"The Universe was the beginning of time. Anything that happened before the big bang could not have effect what happened after."

.. and later he said

If we discover a complete theory of the Universe (the Unified Theory) then then we would know the mind of God"

Re your last post and your dreaming while commuting to work, make sure you don't bump into me while I'm commuting around Vancouver.[smile]

You're experiencing what the esoteric books call the 'observer', as opposed to the 'communicator'. William Shakespeare knew of the observer when he said that 'All the world's a stage'. When we view life as the observer we see ourselves from an offstage vantage point. Behind the scene of the form, you see life from the soul's vantage point. "When the soul breathes the form is near". This soul, or psychic awareness is our 'real' life. For once the play is over, to stretch the analogy a little farther, and the stage lights come on and we remember who we really are and that we just playing a part in a play we call the Great Illusion.

People like Hawkings, Clarke and Sagan, are attempting to wake ourselves up while we are stage. What an unprecedented achievement this would be for the human race. Image. Knowing where we really are as individuals in life is to know the mind of God. We don't have to be cosmologists or physicists to reach this point. There are others ways of reaching enlightenment.

Cheers.

Neo,

Thanks for the extensive reply and I am aware of the Hindu view of Brama as well as the Tibetan Book of the Dead referencing dreaming while awake, Austrailian aboriginals also viewing life as a dream, and even some Native American people I have met also agree on the thought that dreams and reality are the same.

It's one thing to read about it, but I assure if I could show you what these eyes have seen, it would inspire to no end as it truely is one of the highlights of my existence to see clearly, and intelligently, how dreams not only create this reality, but every reality we will ever exist in.

That the true reality is consciousness and that we are all individual personalities of one universal consciousness.

I have searched long and hard for people like myself who have this experience, this knowing but it is a hard find. Yet from the simplicity of the observation, meaning it's omnipresent you would think everyone would realize it.

The reality is, there is a huge psychological component at work in keeping us focused in the reality framework that we ingest. It seems that we have this knowing on stand-by or shutdown while we indulge in human experience.

I think that is by design, that we enter into this physical life already knowing this dream relationship and for that very reason, to have a good run as a human we want it shutdown as to not interfere with the human experience. Perhaps its several lifetimes that brings about the desire to return to this knowing as in my case, having come from a former life and remembering much of it, to this lifetime, I can attest that there is now a need in myself to come back to this knowing.

I am grateful for the experiences which opened me to this information. Just sad that I can't truly do this knowledge any justice and transfer it to people because the reality is, it's a self-realization, not a learned or passed on truth.

All I can do is point it out and hope someone comes to the self-realizations required to acknowledge the very ancient and sacred truth that we are dreamers who create the realities we dream of.

Inevitably, we will come back to that knowing be it in this life to another. All part of the creative process as we churn in the endless creation that we seem involved in.

I still can't do justice in text to explain what it is like when you walk into your living room knowing fully you are dreaming, to only do this while awake. Or to change a dream before it comes true to see the changes happen here.

Amazing is all I can say.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


I am inclined to believe that reality didn't so much "start" as is implied by the big bang theory but more slowly coalesced. Growing more and more "firm" as life became cogniziant and increasingly so as mankind started measuring, mapping and charting things. Rather like waking up from a dream you don't remember, or if you think about it coming into self consciousness like memories of when you are young.

Erm... Not sure that made sense.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


It does, and if you follow current literature and people who are deep in this know, like Thomas Campbell a physicist who has worked for Nasa and the DoD. He wrote My Big Toe and goes into a very deep look at the formation of how the one consciousness evolved itself into the myriad of reality systems we have today.

Implying we are all of that one consciousness, and that the big-bang is merely just a product of this reality system but not all reality systems as there are many beyond this known universe.

Check out his website and forum at:

my-big-toe.com...

or youtube search for his videos, very interesting and thought provoking work.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


I'm not so sure that it implies we are one consciousness but that could be largely because I am a very individualistic person. But how I look at it rather like, well, a baby. We may have at one point been one being but grew into being a distinct individual.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I can relate, I am very much into my own individualism... however as much as I want to cling to it there is some details I must present.

Modeled in our very Universe are examples of what I call, parts of a whole.

Where everything is a part of everything else. This is evident with atoms and molecules, how a series of atoms makes up a complexe molecule which is now comprised of parts making a whole.

Extend this to the cell, and how many cells make up organs and many organs make up a body... here we have many parts making a whole.

Take the energy of the sun providing life to all the plants which in turn give this life energy to other organic organisms implementing that parts of the sun now have become parts of every life form on the planet.

Look at a thread in a mosaic, sure it's an individual thread, but it plays a part in a much bigger picture.

Everything is connected, we are all threads in the picture that is our Universe. All parts of a greater whole.

It's hard to see as the individual, but the evidence is there starting from atoms, to solar systems to the Universe itself. We are what stars are made of.

What we are dealing with here truly is astronomical, it's quantum, beyond the limits of space/time... it's freekin' big stuff. Yet here we are talking about what it is, and our relationship to it.

Fractals describe it also... we are all fractals in a big fractal mosaic.



[edit on 12-10-2009 by YouAreDreaming]

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


Ah, but my offspring model still fits there. After all, look at a fetus. Admittingly, I could be stretching.



[edit on 12-10-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


It does, we are individual even though we are parts of a whole. I don't think we lose individualism because by design we are to expand on what that really means.

As we evolve, perhaps we obtain other levels of wholeness and being yet still retain that sense of self that we have right now.

I just don't want to ignore the reality of the origin of oneness that we come from because even to this day I experience a form of oneness that is hard to explain but present in the "now" moment.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


You see. To me that comes across rather like a child wishing to return to the body of the mother. Or I am losing conherency with wishing to sleep.