"Ban the Koran" says Dutch politician, page 4
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reply posted on 10-10-2009 @ 07:18 PM by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by silent thunder



Good information. Thanks. Please do realize I refer to the extremists.
There is something inherently wrong to place this much emphasis on a human drive. It is frightful to believe one cannot control their own drives, and consequently must hide the "culprits" of this desire away from their eyes, otherwise they will be lost and contaminated forever.

It seems like sooner or later they would figure out it's not that difficult.

LOL! @ the image of the middle aged men with hairplugs and convertibles!


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 05:47 AM by Foppezao
Originally posted by Pellevoisin
France is not a succesful example of integration of peoples and segregation of religion. In truth France strikes me as more of a powder keg ready to blow at this very moment than any other European nation.

Recently in the Netherlands, I came to appreciate how much the nation has changed in the last ten years. I can understand the sense of being overrun by foreign peoples with an alien religion and a separate rule of law then pushing native Dutch to the point of wanting that group of people expelled or the religion strictly curtailed all the way to banning their holy book. It is understandable given what I know of Dutch personality and the current pressures.

The Dutch should have much greater concern for the rising sea waters. Perhaps the Dutch should find another place on Earth to live that is at least a mile high, and then they could leave their soon to be sunken realm to the all of the Muslim immigrants. That would be one very 'squirrelly' solution to the problems.


You mean like this

media.photobucket.com...

The Czech artist made a very nice picture of all of Europe.
Yes in some ways France is timebomb, but thats more because of the social-economic problems in the outer cities of Paris, Marseille and such and the people there not willing to assimilate. I think France as a state ruled by law is still an enlighted example, and i strongly believe in the laicite, if you see Dutch or Germans judges judging about this, they're weak and feeble, and so are the politicians.After theo van Gogh was murdered, the politicians even wanted to strengthen the anti-Blasphemy
laws! like wtf?!...France will al of its former colonies is being overrun by foreigners, especially muslims.
In belgium a minister made a calculation of how much immigration really costs, for a small country about 10 billion, and it doesnt pays out, not at all.. financially nor morally.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Foppezao]

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Foppezao]


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 07:08 AM by Solidus Green eye
reply to post by the siren



I totally agree with you. It would be best to address the militant groups. The problem is, that the current laws protect those militant groups. And Wilders wants to change that.

By getting as much media attention as he can, and stating outrageous claims and saying provocative things. Which is a dangerous thing to do in my opinion.

We even have fundamentalist mosque's in the Netherlands, who are preaching against the western society. They are basically here to say : If you are against Allah you're one with the devil, and you must die. And they are allowed to stay here and do what they want, tell people what they want, and tell little kids what they want, now thats sick isn't it.

peace


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 07:50 AM by karl 12
reply to post by babloyi



Thanks -there are 527 other examples here:

skepticsannotatedbible.com...


As for purposeful misrepresentation,heres an interesting video regarding the quranic instruction for islamists to 'beat their wives lightly'

Apparently the word 'lightly' was an added in as a complete fabrication and does not exist in the qu'ran text.

See 5:36



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 11:15 AM by babloyi
reply to post by karl 12


Yeah, thanks, I know about that website already.

Tossing a list of over 500 points in my face is an interesting tactic. You'll excuse me if I won't devote my whole week to refuting them one by one. However, you're definitely not the first one to bring that site to my attention. In my more naive times, when I newly joined this site, I did actually attempt to go through the list one by one (and got through the first couple before I realised that nobody cared). If you REALLY care, you can look up my previous posts.


As for the video you posted, Neither on the various resources online, or in my personal collection can I find such a version of Tafsir Ibn Kathir (which includes the hadith mentioned, implicitly permitting "boxing of the face" ). In fact, I cannot find this hadith at all, but I find many many talking about "Don't hit at all", "In the most extreme cases", "Not hitting on the face", "Symbolic hitting", "Hitting lightly" etc.. And the inclusion of "lightly" in the verse is to explain the word used in it (to clarify that it is not talking about physical abuse).

[edit on 11-10-2009 by babloyi]


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 12:52 PM by De La Valletta
reply to post by the siren

Muslims were like this before 9/11 they have always hated non-muslims especially Christians. They didn't need 9/11 for that as Christianity is their biggest competition as long as chritianity is around they look silly and feel angry that thay are not the majority religion of the world.

So typical Islam plagiarises the success of the Christian West and is now taking over(MIGRATING) and claiming authorship no less.Yes some moderate muslims may blame themselves for 9/11 , which may be a false flag or a collaboration of the NWO AND ISLAM , but most faithful muslims were GLAD to hear it was one of their muJIHADeen that was responsible. In Islam a moderate muslim is a bad muslim and the fanatic a good muslim. So how does this explain the muslim girl's increasingly , increasingly fundamentalist stance? You'd think if she felt sorry for the victims and felt guilt she'd become more moderate instead of more FUNDI. When 9/11 struck most of them were all out on the streets , in mosques , celebrating this not mourning with us.

If you say it may have been other muslims riling her up it goes to show what too many muslim peers can do vis a vis A MUSLIM MAJORITY in your country. And doesn't that strike people as odd , why would a government sworn to protect NATIVES and your NATIVE constitution want a majority of immigrants and

1.allow a divisive group to migrate to your country ,
2.who refuse to assimilate ,
3.who demand the host country adopt their culture , laws and religion etc or allow them separate laws from the natives and
4.boast and carry out intentions to replace native culture with theirs.

Isn't that the mindset of an invader and not a true immigrant. And if said government does nothing to curb are eradicate this element and hinders the natives of said country from taking action doesn't it imply either gross stupidity on their part or gross TREASON. What would happen if it were us doing this to them in reverse? Ever heard of THE GREAT UPHEAVAL/EXPULSION of 1755? That would happen to us.


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 01:04 PM by Udo Hohnekamp Lux.
To make the statement of the 72 pure virgins complete you have to add
28 boys in the Islamic paradise to attenuate the imbalance of one man
having 4 wives and three having none, the Prophet being the exception
with 9 women at the same time, respectively 14 in total. There were and
still are kings with a harem in the thousands.
This explains the concern of the "owners" of those wives, limited to 4 by
the Quran, to cover them up and lead nobody into temptation.
Europe is going to have a great problem with Islam. Because Europe
being secular with a strict division between state and church, and trying
to follow the democratic guide-lines of its constitutions and those of the
1948 Declaration of Human Rights, preaching religious and other tolerances,
is automatically in the weaker position with a religion that teaches intolerance
and calls its hosts unbelievers. Offering the left cheek after being slapped
on the right one by tradition of Christian forgiving is not the method to deal
with Islam. They are using our own values that they so fiercely condemn
to undermine our constitutions. They already had set up in Cologne a Caliphate that the German police had to forcibly dissolve. The imam was
sentenced to a number of years in prison and later extradited back home
for (successfully) preaching murder in the mosque. There is a lot under-
ground preaching of violence and summons to disrespect our laws and to
adhere to the Sharia tradition in our own countries. London is the Sharia
capital in Europe.
With allowing Islam mosque after mosque in Europe out of falsely inter-
preted tolerance, we are getting no church in return, not one in Turkey,
where millions of German tourists flock, certainly not in Saudi Arabia, where
visibly folding your hands in prayer gets you arrested (if a Westerner) and
beheaded (if you are a poor soul from the Phillippines). Owning a bible
down there same thing.
Try asking the religious police on Saudi streets, if you, a Muslim, really
have to follow the Quran to the word regarding Christians and Jews, this
would be considered apostasy with subsequent prison or death sentence.
A Muslim girl or man opting for the Christian belief should never enter
any of those hard-line Islamic countries. It would mean death for apostasy.
We have secret homes in Europe to receive those girls to get them out of
reach from those Fundamentalists.
Germany`s newly elected coalition is going to pass a bill making it a
criminal offense for Muslim parents to force their daughters into marriage,
mostly abroad with Muslims thus further aggravating the immigration
problem. The mostly poorly integrated males tend to pick their brides in
their country of origin, ever increasing the educational failures with inte-
gration.
So nobody is to wonder about a tendency towards right wing radical parties
like Wilders´.



reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 02:22 PM by kaygee
Originally posted by CriticalThinking
I am not a follower of Islam but as far as I know from what I have studied this religion in itself does not teach hatred or violence so I don't know where most of you people are getting that information or perception from... The violence in Islamic belief comes from extremist belief and their adaptations of what they think is right, nothing whatsoever to do with believers of Islam who follow the Koran.

If you ask me Islam is a better religion than Christianity any day because at least it doesn't teach violence or hatred in it's OFFICIAL writings or Holy book as any proper religion would...

You associate Islam with terrorism when it's clearly the opposite side who are the biggest terrorists in the world!


Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Qur'an (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

Qur'an (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"


Yeah, nothing violent there...


reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 02:39 PM by De La Valletta
reply to post by CriticalThinking

O You who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)

Qur'an is a clear revelation; the disbelievers are evil people (quran2:99)

Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers.(quran 2:98)

Walks like a duck ,quacks like a duck , looks like a duck , wages fast and slow jihad like a duck

Now you say your not a muslim so you'd fall into the ranks of a disbeliever DHIMMI. why don't you stop making islam what it is not ; a religion of peace and REASON and look at reality. It's been at war with every non-muslim since it was born in Arabia , conquered Sassanid Persia , Byzantine Empire ,The Balkans , North , West , East Africa , the Levant , India ,Western China (UIGHARS) , Indonesia , CONVERTED THE MONGOL HORDE , attacked fledgling U.S.A in the BARBARY WARS. The Ottomon Turks , modern Turkey constantly invaded Europe not for anything else but Islamic Imperialism.

THE EAST AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE east african because it went east to muslim lands , carried out by muslims which ripped away women and children to be sex slaves or labour or to castrate the boys and turn them in to eunachs. This bled africa far more than the Trans-Atlantic trade of human resources and lasted for more than a thousand years. They had to cross the Sahara desert on foot with little food or water any stragglers were left for dead in the dessert or beheaded.

Most black africans never learn about this or never talk of it cuz it's easier to bash whitey (AT LEAST THE EUROPEANS ABOLISHED SLAVERY , MUSLIMS HAVE NOT , ONLY PLAY LIP SERVICE TO THE U.N) and they foolishly glorify the muslim faith which has been the major cause of poverty and backwardness in africa with the mentality of THE OTHERS or OTHERNESS (not the film, the social construct) ;read APARTHEID , that perpetuates TRIBALISM not to mention terrible treatment of women. Before oil the only wealth these muslims could get was mostly through THE SLAVE TRADE , google TIPPU TIP. Even today the evidence of Islam's true face in Africa is seen in the Sudan and West African areas like Northern Nigeria. But hey Nation Of Islam leaves all this out , TAQIYYAH. More better/peaceful than Christianity it is not. You've either not taken the time to study the enemy FULLY or your just plain gullible and soft in the head."BY THEIR ACTIONS YOU WILL KNOW THEM" , "ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS".
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