"Ban the Koran" says Dutch politician

Originally posted by Solidus Green eye
Hi Guys,

I'm from the Netherlands. And we've seen this guy alot in the news here.
I know he's a bit over the top about banning a whole religion.
And he's saying alot of provocative things about muslims. Its all for the media attention for him. Here in the Netherlands he was trying to make people pay tax money for wearing a headscarf

The point is, he is making people THINK. Especially in the down-to-earthy Netherlands. Were everybody thinks: Ooh no worry's , the government will do the thinking for us. Just vote for the guy who puts up the best act.

There are now area's, infested with muslims who's childeren don't go to school. Carry guns, don't speak dutch and live on health care.
The police can't even go to some neighborhoods.

In the Netherlands we give pride to our freedom of speech. Geert Wilders is pointing out that it has disappeared into nothingness. Since you can't walk safely on the streets at night now, and you can't say what you like and don't like. Because some irritated aggressive muslim will bust you head in for saying you don't like the quran. Believe me it happens, and I've seen in happen.

So, I'm not saying he's right, he sure ain't right about a lot of things.
But he makes good points about loosing our fundamental moral's in the this society.

Peace

I figured Wilders was exaggerating, but if you're from the Netherlands then you would know more about this than any of us.

Still though, I think an anti-jihad police force would be a better way of dealing with troublemakers than banning their religious texts.

Wilders himself admits that it's only 5% - 15% of Muslims that are militant. I don't think it's fair to punish the peaceful 85% - 95% of them at the same time. I feel for those people because I can imagine it being my religion that was at stake. There are plenty of crazy people that think they're Christian too.

Also keep in mind that Wilders is an athiest, so I can imagine what his long term goals are.

Banning a religion would not accomplish much, just drive it underground, but banning burkas and head scarves in pubic places would be a good way to start.

Also, a major effort should be put in place to provide protective custody for people who choose to change their religion from Islam to another religion, especially women. If a girl decides that she does not want to be a Muslim anymore, and asks for protection, there should be shelters provided which are located a long ways away from Muslim communities.

Any welfare should come with interviews of all members of the family, at least over the age of 10. Requirements for learning the national language should also be put in place. Marriages of young girls to older men should result in prosecution of all involved, with lengthy jail terms.

Boys in school who attack or harass girls for not conforming with religious beliefs should be separated and forced to go to schools where they will be taught alternative beliefs, and respect for women.

This would be a good way to start.

reply to post by poet1b


Those are some brilliant points you've mentioned!

What's wrong with head scarves though? I mean, assuming that the ladies aren't forced to wear them.

reply to post by the siren


But they are being forced to wear them, through intimidation and harassment.

While many are happy to wear them, it forces those who do not want them to comply, so the only answer is to completely ban them all together.

The headscarves are just another way of forcing subservience.

edit to add

Ban them because they are symbols of oppression.

Free the women, and end the attempt to conquer through the womb.




[edit on 9-10-2009 by poet1b]

reply to post by poet1b


Ok, I get it now - you're right.

I once chatted with a Muslim lady and asked her why they cover themselves. She said to me...

"If you have a diamond, you want to cover it up so no one steals it. Muslim women are like diamonds to their husbands"

At the time I just smiled and nodded, but in my head I was thinking that with most people, if they have a diamond, they want to show it off.

Strange folk.

reply to post by the siren


hehe, I like that diamond thing (I thought headscarfs had something to do with getting respect from moslim men... something like that).

I used to work in an office. My co-worker was a moslim arabic girl. She was very nice, didn't wear the head scarf or anything.. she became a friend, someone I trusted. Then 9/11 hapened and one day she said to me, very calm "I would fly into a building if my religion required it" I asked her what she meant and she said that she would do the same thing if it proved she was a good muslim. I was stunned by what she said and I still wonder where she got those ideas... that cannot be what Islam is about.
Some of them do have very strange ideas, also the women and they are less likely to state them in public.

reply to post by poet1b
Good ideas Poet B but eventually these will be faught either by the sword , protest or by money. All of these are JIHAD;meaning struggle , then more forceful methods will have to be used , IF THERE'S ANYTHING LEFT TO FIGHT FOR. Islam will ether steamroll us or we steamroll them. When was the last time you heard of a Christian or Atheist or any non-muslim (cant say Jews they already know the enemy and so how to fight) go to Saudi and demanded his/her rights and got them unless they were well connected. Muslims protest all the time about their right to be terrorists and instate their constitution;SHARIA LAW and our governments bend , but who protests for The non-muslim , when a SAUDI RELIGIOUS POLICE drags you off to be flogged or beheaded for not wearing a burka or kissing your girlfriend.

reply to post by GypsK
Ever heard of JIHAD or TAQIYYA , JIHAD MEANING STRUGGLE .There are two , 2 types of jihad , GREATER JIHAD AND LESSER JIHAD. Greater jihad is inner struggle against one's evil thoughts and Lesser jihad is to take up arms and wage war, civil disobedience and expansion of Islam .MOST MUSLIMS PREFER THE LESSER JIHAD every conquest just inflates their ego and justifies Islam to them. Taqiyya not to be confused with the hat is a concept from SHIA ISLAM where a muslim can lie or conceal truth in order to avoid danger , persecution or detection to better carry out lesser jihad and surprise the enemy , misdirect his efforts or lead him into a trap. Sunni Islam Muslims openly oppose TAQIYYA as a form of denying Islam but practice it covertly. Hope this has opened your eyes.



[edit on 9-10-2009 by De La Valletta]

Originally posted by GypsK
I used to work in an office. My co-worker was a moslim arabic girl. She was very nice, didn't wear the head scarf or anything.. she became a friend, someone I trusted. Then 9/11 hapened and one day she said to me, very calm "I would fly into a building if my religion required it" I asked her what she meant and she said that she would do the same thing if it proved she was a good muslim. I was stunned by what she said and I still wonder where she got those ideas... that cannot be what Islam is about.
Some of them do have very strange ideas, also the women and they are less likely to state them in public.

Very weird that she stated that out of the blue. Maybe the other Muslims had been riling her up about being too liberal (not wearing her scarf and all) and she just wanted someone to believe how dedicated she was in her heart.

If it turns out that the ATS'ers in the 9/11 forum are right and it wasn't an Islamic attack then it just goes to show what an amazing piece of propoganda it was if the even the Muslim's think themselves are to blame.

I think that the Koran incites hatred of Jews. I think that the Talmud incites hatred of gentiles. I think the Bible incites hatred of polytheists. I think that polytheists battle among themselves using spirits.

Humanity as always will have to adopt the good and discard the bad in whatever endeavor it undertakes.

People who are frightened of Islam should take heart. There are as many hypocrites in Islam as in any other religion. God bless the hypocrites. They are the true repository of the whole man and no religion will ever defeat them. As long as there are hypocrites, there is hope for humanity.

reply to post by De La Valletta


Thanks for that explenation, I don't know a lot about Islam, certainly not about the things you wrote.

Originally posted by the siren

"Very weird that she stated that out of the blue. Maybe the other Muslims had been riling her up about being too liberal (not wearing her scarf and all) and she just wanted someone to believe how dedicated she was in her heart."

it could be they where 'riling her up', I don't know.
she was a normal girl in a normal office, very sweet girl aswell. A few months after that incident she had another strange idea. She had met a guy she fell deeply in love with, also an Arab Islamic. Since she had relationships before she wasn't a virgin. So she desided to have an operation that, in her words "would make her a virgin again". According to her that was possible and some islamic girls had it done... it had something do do with the purity of marriage.
I have no idea if she went through with it, shortly after that I changed jobs.

"If it turns out that the ATS'ers in the 9/11 forum are right and it wasn't an Islamic attack then it just goes to show what an amazing piece of propoganda it was if the even the Muslim's think themselves are to blame."

good point, makes you wonder...

"Ban the Koran" says Dutch politician

If we simply substituted the word "disbeleivers" for the word "muslims" - then should the book be banned?

Disbeleivers are the best people. Most muslims are "evil-livers." 3:110


Do not choose muslims as friends. 4:144


Don't be friends with muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118


Only evil people are muslims. 2:99


Give us victory over the muslims. 2:286


Let not the disbelievers take muslims for their friends in preference to disbeleivers. 3:28


Allah will punish muslims in this world and the next. They will have no helpers. 3:56


muslims will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56


Disbelievers fight for Allah; muslims fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76


Have no muslim friends. Kill the muslims wherever you find them. 4:89

Its a bit different when the boot is on the other foot isn't it?


Countless more examples here:
skepticsannotatedbible.com...

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

I would love to see all religions dissappear - Islam, Judaism and CHristianity are top of my list of violent - useless ways of thought and doing things.

reply to post by the siren




It's easy to slander the past people when they're gone long time ago.

Similar debate can be initialized ..

In our modern times, USA is being rocked by endless sex scandals of church priests/bishops for involvement of pedophilic and homosexuality activities.

But I do not think we should ban Christian or Bible.

The activities of your priests/bishops would not qualify them to become the
founders of a new religion, though.

The first video "Fitna" by that same Geert Wilders caused a lot of controversy
and to a subsequent suppression on Internet (freedom of opinion ?) :

www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

while the second one, eventually with a litte correction, is still available here :

www.liveleak.com/view?i=216_1207467783

reply to post by karl 12

That's some very interesting...."summarising" of the verses, Karl

reply to post by the siren


The muslims must be the most sexually oppressed and frustrated population of people on this planet.

Sex is an important human function, of course, (I'm mean really. Are the men so sexually out of control they fear they might rape any woman they see without all that garb on?)

Are they that terrified of becoming sexually aroused? And if they do, they blame the women for it?

Seems sometimes they place so much value on sexual arousal they have made it into their God, and one to be vehemently feared.

Sexual Oppression. Fear. Murderous Intent. Is this a religion?
Or some type cult? Sometimes I wonder..........

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by the siren

 

The muslims must be the most sexually oppressed and frustrated population of people on this planet.

The Taliban banned melons because "they might remind somebody of a feamle's breast."

According to the Iranian Shia, the reason for women having to cover their heads is that a woman's hair emits "beams of power" that drive men mad with lust.

And then the endless fascination with the ever-pure "72 virgins" (after death, of course. After death, not in life or living love).

These are extreme characteristics, but they don't seem to point towards a culture of healthy release, do they?

On the other hand, not all Muslims are this extreme and it is important to not paint with a broad brush. Islamic poets like Rumi and Omar Khayym have written beautiful romantic if not frankly erotic poetry. There is talk among some of the dark secrets of the hidden chamber deep in the house, where man and wife confront each other in love and nakedness at last. So...while the extreme views grab our attention, they are not the whole story.

Still, I believe its important to remember that the Muslim extremists DO utilize sexual frustration and power for their own ends. There is nothing more sexually tormented on this planet than a teenage boy (except perhaps certain hair-plug-sportin', convertable-driving middle-aged men). While the Western world sees a dwindled number of children produced and greying populations, the Muslim world has seen much more recent "baby boom:" Over fifty percent of those in many muslim countries are under 20 years old, for example. This teenaged energy is an enormous source of power for older men who would harness it to their own dark ends. Extremist boys who have grown up in all-male Madrassas and have been sexually repressed are simmering cauldrons of energy that can be mis-directed down all sorts of dark roads. Chairman Mao also discovered how to pervert the energies of the young during the "Cultural Revolution" in late 1960s-early 70s China, with extremely disasterous results.

[edit on 10/10/09 by silent thunder]