"Ban the Koran" says Dutch politician

reply to post by poet1b

As far as my getting nasty, where is your comments about all the cheap shots made by babloyi?

you accused him of beating his wife

not nice - not acceptable

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Wrong, I did not accuse him of any such thing. You need to work on your reading skills. It is in extremely bad taste so make such a false accusation as you have just made?

reply to post by poet1b

Originally posted by poet1b
You have been accusing me of demanding that women walk around naked for several days now because I think burqas and head scarves should be banned in western nations, and and taking every cheap shot at every opportunity, as usual.

Have I? Where? I've demanded no such thing. It really frustrates me when someone has so made up their mind that they don't even bother reading the other side, because they assume they already know what the other person is saying. Where have I demanded any such thing? The only thing I've been insinuating or "accusing" you of is that you seem to have an incomplete understanding of the issue.

Originally posted by poet1b
What you support is treating women like slaves, and all your attempts to accuse me of being the oppressor with all the sneaking games you try to play doesn't hide the fact that you support the enslavement of women.

How am I supporting the enslavement of women when I'm saying "let them wear a hijab/burqa if they want", and you're saying "No, ban them from wearing the hijab and burqa"? Who is desiring the limiting of freedoms here?

Originally posted by poet1b
When people can openly express their own religion in Muslim controlled nations, and teach others about other religions in Muslim controlled countries, then Western nations should once again allow the headress and the burqa, but until then, they should be completely banned as symbols or religious oppression and persecution.

Oh, so you want governments to play some sort of blackmail game here? Where is the connection? It is like saying all non-US countries ban the wearing of baseball caps until the US stops it's implicit and hidden racism against African Americans?
Besides, once again you show your lack of understanding of how things run in the "non-west" part of the world. Selahobed made this point too, and I didn't quite agree. I'm suspecting that if you ever came to any Islamic country, it was probably on a tour of military duty. In several muslim countries, all over the world, people openly express their non-muslim faith in public.

All over the UAE, obviously- the Hindus. In Egypt- the Copts are VERY proud of their faith as well as their history, and definitely have nothing to do with hiding it. In Iran - which I believe has the 3rd highest population of Jews in the world (after Israel and the US), there are several Synagogues, schools, kosher restaurants, etc. In Pakistan (perhaps the most backwards in this respect)- I've personally travelled in a taxi with a huge bumper sticker saying "Jehovah Jesus is God", I've seen beautiful murals at the back of trucks featuring Jesus, and I've been to a fair celebrating the Hindu festival of Diwali. Heck, for a while, I think their chief justice was Hindu. While there may have been some instances of "religious oppression", this was almost always just greedy men using religion as an excuse (such as when some men made accusations of blasphemy against a church, just so that they could have the land. The case was obviously overturned).

But I guess all that is besides the point. What you're suggesting is basically to penalise the average muslim based on the policies of another government, in another country, which that person has left, or perhaps never been to! You claim your beef is with the extremists, that you have no problem with the average muslim, but then you make statements about wanting to limit all their freedoms, you make statements politicising the simple wearing of clothes.

[edit on 19-10-2009 by babloyi]

reply to post by poet1b


mind your manners poet1b

mind your manners

Originally posted by Selahobed
In fact I live between the uk and Australia where the same complaints are starting to appear... I wonder why!?

Prime minister John Howard already put his foot down when he told Muslims that want to live under Islamic Sharia law to get out of Australia...

We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!

Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,


'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'

source

I can't fault what he says at all. He's not talking of banning any religions, he's just basically saying 'when in Rome..'

reply to post by the siren

Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

And that's exactly why i don't want to hear it. I feel chief on it being Australia and such but come on..where were these so called Christian values when they started rounding up the Aborigines? Oh yea thats right, its in the past so it doesn't count..dufus! (not you siren, but the dude that make the quote")

[edit on 19-10-2009 by cenpuppie]

Originally posted by cenpuppie
And that's exactly why i don't want to hear it. I feel chief on it being Australia and such but come on..where were these so called Christian values when they started rounding up the Aborigines? Oh yea thats right, its in the past so it doesn't count..dufus! (not you siren, but the dude that make the quote")

Good point. I forgot about the Abo's.

reply to post by babloyi


The only thing you read is what you can attempt to distort and make false claims.

I didn't accuse you of demanding anything.

The burqa is a traveling prison, and all your attempts to claim you are liberating women by allowing the use of the burqa to remain in practice is ludicrous nonsense. Some people were happy being slaves, so should we allow slavery to be re-instituted?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

the women are nothing but props and decoys

With comments like this you should mind your manners.

The genocide in Africa, the marrying of 8 year old girls to old men, the killing of girls for daring to go to school, the intentional blowing up of a school full of children.

Yeah, there is no reason to have a beef with these extremists.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Why dont you mind your manners also, you might actually gain some respect from other members rather than ganging up on a member who has a different view than you do.

And making accusations against someone without proof, or twisting his words, is in itself childish and immature.

[edit on 19-10-2009 by Laurauk]

reply to post by Laurauk


go back and read

that's all I'm going to say

go back and read - then decide

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Actually I did read, is why I am saying the exact same thing you have commented to Poet, mind your manners also, and quit with the false accusations.

reply to post by poet1b

The genocide in Africa, the marrying of 8 year old girls to old men, the killing of girls for daring to go to school, the intentional blowing up of a school full of children.

what does this have to do with anything we've been discussing?

do you think this is something I condone?

you've already decided I'm a bad person - several days ago

you've said so yourself - in print - several times poet1b

thing is - I don't think you're a bad person

I do think you take everything personally and refuse to have a genuine back and forth

and I think you think the best defense is a good offense :-)

you offended me (I can't speak for anyone else - though I would think it should bother many people - apparently it doesn't) when you accused babloyi of beating his wife

mind your manners

I'll say it as often as I feel it should be said

if you don't want to talk to me - then simply don't talk to me

reply to post by Laurauk

So do you beat your wife if she doesn't wear her burqa?

Seriously been wondering that.

he said what he said

I am not wrong

do you have anything else to contribute to this discussion?

reply to post by the siren


Yeah, I love Johnny Howard, he's a true Auzzie and I think Rudd is very "un-Australian" to coin a "Howardism".

However, it seems from my experience that pc has quadroopled since rudd came to power to the point that even the abos are complaining because the influx of somalian and lebonese Muslims are eating into their entitlements.

Their presance especially in places like toowoomba (my fiacee is from there) have created tensions to the point where even the police are starting to moan too.

reply to post by poet1b

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by babloyi

 

The only thing you read is what you can attempt to distort and make false claims.

I didn't accuse you of demanding anything.

Tsk Tsk...resorting to semantics now? Alright, I humbly apologise for mistyping the question. Where have I (for several days) accused you of demanding that women walk around naked?

Originally posted by poet1b
The burqa is a traveling prison, and all your attempts to claim you are liberating women by allowing the use of the burqa to remain in practice is ludicrous nonsense. Some people were happy being slaves, so should we allow slavery to be re-instituted?

That first statement in that quote is an opinion, so the rest of that statement is meaningless.

reply to post by babloyi


It started with this.

Men might "force" women to wear high-heels

Why would men force women to wear high-heeled shoes? To make them sex objects of course.

and ended with this.

Do you beat your wife if she goes around naked?

Now, to point out your semantics errors, I assumed you meant, "Do you beat your wife if she does not go around naked."

Of course tie that to your signature, and your message is clear. You had to keep repeating the shoes topic, so I called you out and it worked beautifully.

Yes, it is my opinion that the Burqa is a traveling prison, and a symbol of oppression, that is why I am putting this out there, so that people wake up. Putting your wife in a burqa and forcing your daughter to wear a head scarf everywhere is oppression, they are chains, in essence.

I think you see the burqa for what it really is. You support the burqa, because you support the control of women.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

Yes, I have known Muslims, and people from the Middle East who are not Muslim. I have know women from the middle east who were not Muslim, but most Muslim women will not talk with most men. It is sad how hard they work to avoid eye contact with any man.

Most women in these burqas walk around looking like women trapped in domestic violence situations.

As far as my getting nasty, where is your comments about all the cheap shots made by babloyi?

You come on here and defend the right of men to treat their women like slaves and pretend you have a moral leg to stand on, now that is a joke.

I have already answered your questions. You should at least take the time to read what I have written first before personally attacking me.

By the way, Western nations stopped practicing slavery long before the Middle Eastern nations.

The poor things avoid eye contact because they don't want those eyes blackened when they get home.

Non-muslim men who support the mistreatment of muslim women are just foaming at the mouth to have a woman they can knock around and order to the bedroom at any given time. I would bet my last dollar (and I only have three dollars left) that the great majority of non-muslim men who sign up for that crap are attracted by the laws the men have over "their" women and children too for that matter (they can legally have sex with a 6 month old). You're not telling me these western men get into all that allah crap, laying down with 20 men's smelly butts in their right in their nose three times a day facing mecca, I'm not buying it. I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


And you continue to misquote me. Post what you want, you are only making yourself look bad.

You continue with your habit of misquoting others, even though it has been pointed out and is completely obvious.

reply to post by Bombeni


more hate mongering Bombeni?

nice

this is your opinion - where's your evidence?

your money is no good here

here - if you're going to make those kinds of accusations, we expect you to show up with more than a few dollars and some hate

is this the Christian way?