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"Ban the Koran" says Dutch politician

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posted on Oct, 16 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 
I'm Theist.I follow no religion but believe there is a prime mover.

I say christian west to define Europe/Russia and the Americas , which are predominantly christian and in the western hemisphere or any country which has a predominantly western culture/values and in the eastern hemisphere eg.Australia and New zealand.

All I see today is One-way Multiculturalism , Political Correctness , Illegal Immigration gone awry , Religious Double Standards , Political and Financial Treason , Lowering Moral and Ethic Standards and Dumming Down of the Masses. The West is being primed for divide and conquer or already has.

The Fall of Rome all over again.




posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


Arbitrary rules? Like you should bath and groom yourself if you want to be taken seriously by people? Sorry, but I don't make those rules, and the same goes with posting a link and a quote. This is what is expected here in ATS. Sorry if you haven't figured this out yet.

I have no respect for restaurants that require a man to wear a tie and sports jacket while women do not. I have challenged many who have had such policy, and there are few around anymore.

If the women must wear a burqa, then the men must wear a burqa is what I say. If the girls must wear a head scarfs, then so should the boys.



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 

Someone mention something about bathing and grooming? I certainly didn't. Or do you mean to say that people who wear burqa/headscarf don't bathe and groom themselves? If it is expected here on ATS, then how come you don't do it either? How come nobody else has ever mentioned it?

If I am posting a QUOTE, then it would make sense to also link where I am getting the quote from (if it is available online).
If I am posting a news article in the ATS news section, it would make sense to attach a quote of the relevant part of the article.
If someone asks me a to provide a LINK to something on the internet, then I provide a link.

But yes, this is all irrelevant stuff, as I'm sure you'd agree.



Originally posted by poet1b
I have no respect for restaurants that require a man to wear a tie and sports jacket while women do not. I have challenged many who have had such policy, and there are few around anymore.

If the women must wear a burqa, then the men must wear a burqa is what I say. If the girls must wear a head scarfs, then so should the boys.

Your reasoning again is a little naive. At the beach, would it make sense for men to be forced to wear bikini tops (or women's one-piece bathing suits)? No. Traditionally, there are certain "men's" clothes, and certain "women's" clothes. While the line between them may be slowly blurring (you mentioned pant-suits for women a while back), there are still standards for men and women's formal-wear. So I'm sure that those same restaurants would probably not allow women in if they were wearing jeans and flip-flops, for example.

But again, you miss the point. It isn't about what they MUST wear, it is about what they CHOOSE to wear. Why should what one person decides to wear create an obligation to what another person should wear?

And yes, some muslim men decide that they wish to wear headcoverings as well:
Just covering hair

And some covering the whole face.

Once again, just as your automatic reaction to women wearing this stuff is "OPPRESSION! OPPRESSION! SLAVERY!", you're automatic reaction to men wearing it will probably be "TERRORIST! TERRORIST! WATCH OUT!"



posted on Oct, 17 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 





But again, you miss the point. It isn't about what they MUST wear, it is about what they CHOOSE to wear. Why should what one person decides to wear create an obligation to what another person should wear?


agreed

it's been mentioned - several times - but what the hey

seems to me this is about one groups preferences being a priority over another groups - nothing more

at least in this thread

the women are nothing but props and decoys - I'm not at all convinced of the sincerity of this damsel in distress saving argument

even if it is sincere - it doesn't disguise the anti-Muslim feelings running through this thread

I'm only posting this as a reply to you because I feel confident that here it won't be turned into a Miss Manners lesson

:-)



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 


So do you beat your wife if she doesn't wear her burqa?

Seriously been wondering that.

And following your argument, slaves prefer to wear chains. They think wearing chains makes them look more formidable.

Even though women who have broken free from the slavery of Islam openly denounce the burqa as something they do not want to wear.



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


Yeah, of course Western woman, and all women in the world outside of Islam, are being forced to be props and decoys, they don't get to choose how they dress, but the women of Islam choose to wear the burqa.

SURE, I buy that.



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Originally posted by poet1b
So do you beat your wife if she doesn't wear her burqa?

Seriously been wondering that.


No?
Where'd that come from? You can't think of any valid arguments, so you resort to this? Do you beat your wife if she goes around naked?



Originally posted by poet1b
And following your argument, slaves prefer to wear chains. They think wearing chains makes them look more formidable.

Even though women who have broken free from the slavery of Islam openly denounce the burqa as something they do not want to wear.

It doesn't "follow my argument" at all, except to again prove that your understanding of anything not "western" (whatever that may mean), is severely limited. In this case, you are mentally incapable of looking at a woman in hijab/burqa and thinking anything other than "Oppression! Slavery".
You seriously think that all muslim women who were hijab/burqa are "forced", and the moment that they "break free of Islam", they're going to "denounce the burqa"? If you've already made this decision, no amount of Links or Quotes or Articles or anything is going to change your mind. So what exactly are you doing here?



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


hi there poet1b

:-)

so here's a question (though, not a new question - you are correct):

how many Muslim women do you actually know?

you know - by their first name?

well enough to sit down with over a cup of coffee and have a chat?

well enough to ask them how they feel about the burka directly?

also - how many Muslim men do you know?

are they all evil?

all slave owners - with no respect or love for the women in their lives - at all?

here's another question - how many women in the Islamic world wear the burka and cover their heads?

how many don't?

are all Muslim men evil slave owners - or are the ones that are still Muslim but don't force their women to wear all the prison garb still bad men? Or are they good men?

good Muslim men?

how much of this is tradition, custom (and religion) - how much is not?

how can you tell when it is and when it isn't?



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



So do you beat your wife if she doesn't wear her burqa?

Seriously been wondering that.

And following your argument, slaves prefer to wear chains. They think wearing chains makes them look more formidable.


hey poet1b - do you have reading comprehension difficulties?

or are you deliberately being nasty, antagonistic and just plain rude?

knock it off

if you can't argue in a civilized fashion - don't argue at all



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by De La Valletta
 


thank you for your answer De La Valletta

it was illuminating



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by Emerald The Paradigm
 





You can't discriminate against banning one religion because then you seem bias towards it. If you ban one, then you must ban all. However, let's be realistic because this will never happen. There are over 1.57 Billion Muslims in the world, and about 2.25 Billion Christians.


Very true, and I believe the bible in Revelation predicts this part happens in the Great Tribulation, a time we are now approaching. And people will be shocked when it happens, and radicals within all faiths will die trying to protect their rights, as they use violence, because it's all they know.



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 09:41 AM
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This thread is crazy!

Plenty of muslim women wear burqas as a symbol of devotion. Going to church can be seen in a similar way.
They have a different world view in terms of what is ok to wear in public. Doesn't mean they're oppressed. Just means they think differently.
If you look at how the world is falling apart, mainly due to a lack of morals. The ability to stand up and represent yourself as a person with these sorts of morals should be applauded!
I'm not saying that crime or violence is ok, and anyone who does these things is not Islamic!
This has happened before, greeks, italians, asians and now arabs! Can you see how we're repeating the dame old cycles?

Also we tend to misunderstand a lot of things in our own culture aswell as muslim culture, as muslims misunderstand their own culture and a 'western' world view.
A muslim may say something and it may sound really bad, as I split my 2 posts earlier in the thread.
The people saying these things are quite young and have only walked partway down the path, they are still learning and as such will make mistakes.
All people make mistakes.

Who knows after the muslims become accepted perhaps well have to deal with those pesky zoroastrians!
MMMMAAAAASSSIVE joke there by the way for those of us who aren't up on having a little laugh still...



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by ShadowScholar
 




This thread is crazy!


:-)

thank you for breaking the spell

and don't get me started with the Zaroastrians... (and thank you for some humor)

I've traveled through Mexico a few times - it's been a while

at one time - maybe it's still true - you were required to cover your head before entering a Catholic church

all visitors (tourists) were told ahead of time that this was expected

as I have learned in this thread - Catholics are not Christian - so there you go - what can you expect really?

still - it was a sign of respect, custom - tradition

also not difficult to do

I was traveling at the time with a woman who pitched a major fit at the entrance - proclaiming very loudly that she was an American, and she would do whatever the hell she wanted - wherever, whenever and however she wanted

I could not have been more proud

(that was sarcasm - for those of you nodding your heads)

I didn't get to see that cathedral

edit to add: she covered her head for the next few

[edit on 10/18/2009 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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I would like to start this with an old saying: A few bad apples will spoil the bunch.
In reference to the original post, I believe that the person making the influx of immigrants, who are muslims are not joining the culture or language of their new homes, rather making a representation of their old home. A few have gotten violent, and I will give you that, as that is bound to happen. But most are in general trying to make it in a new country, while maintaining their values of what they were raised with.
I see it where I live in the United States, as the neighborhood that I am right now has a high muslim/hispanic/asian population. Neither group wants to deal with the other and they expect the other to change. Neither is willing to give up old values or view points. I am all for pride in your culture, but when you live in a country that you have immigrated to, sometimes you have to take steps to join in that culture. That means you would have to respect your neighbors, their beliefs and learn the local language. If you don't then you set yourself apart in a crude form of segragation and the question is who is to blame for that?



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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Wrong.. When was the last time you saw a baptist lady strap Semtex to herself then blow up a public place? Or a Jew? Or a Hindu? Sikh? In fact the only religion causing this is Islam.
It's time we called a spade a spade and stop this pc nonesense!
Islam IS a threat to the west. It's ideology is one of conquer and conversion by force if neccessary and has no place in western society that it is diametrically apposed to.
I advise anyone to read the Quran, and then you will see that the fundementalists are the only one who carry out this vile religion to it's absolute.

Islam is NO religion of peace. Except if you are a muslim, and even then there are factions!

They always need an enemy to fight...


 
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posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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And yes I'm not beyond the facts of our Christian past too, however in this day and age in western culture, you are free to worship who you wish. In an Islamic state I dare you to walk around with a bible or even admit you are a Christian. Just google pics of what happens if you do that in places like Malaysia, or Egypt, or Arab states... Tollerance has to go both ways, but not with Islam apparantly!



 
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posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by Selahobed
 


en.wikipedia.org...

you don't get to pick and choose

educate yourself

at least a little



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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I know more than most about picking and choosing, however the fact still remains, even though they indoctrinated from birth, does that mean that those that are not shouldn't protect ourselves?

So we are supposed to feel bad because these poor people have been indoctrinated.. Doesn't make them less of a threat... Yes it's sad, but we still have to protect ourselves, and no amount of pics or handwringing is going to change that!


 
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posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by Selahobed
 





I know more than most about picking and choosing...


this much is all too apparent

did you look at that link?

did you read through any of it - the history of this planet - I'd suggest you go through each and every single year

tell me if you notice anything

[edit on 10/18/2009 by Spiramirabilis]



posted on Oct, 18 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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Ahhh wiki, the font of all knowledge...

Yes, you are right, terrorism in the past was indeed perpetuated mostly by western nations, and yes we are reaping what we have sown, and deserve it... However, the fact still remains that the past has gone or quite frankly I would be well pissed off by the Romans, Saxons, vickings, Picts, Moors, in fact the list is a lot longer but I wasn't born then and the world is a different place. I also do not deny the fact that our goverments are corrupt beyond belief and use other peoples and places, tell us who to hate, and go to war on lies for the benifit of an elite few.
However, the fact still remains now, not then, that we must protect ourselves, and no amount of saying sorry is going to make one iota of difference, coz our culture is diametrically opposed to theirs.
They have to dominate, by force if neccessary... We have accepted them, tollerated them, and I'm sorry, but I would rather die than be a Muslim, regardless of wrongs of the past.


 
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