Abortion, the death penalty, and euthanasia , page 5

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reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 01:38 PM by missvicky

reply to post by Raist

If the child would be able to survive outside of the womb or have a greater chance of it could the state not take the child if the mother did not want it?
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I'm not sure that State raised children are an answer either. Smacks of
something even more sinister to me. The motive to make abortion illegal
and the State raises all these kids? Ohhhh, now what could that motive be? Our government doesn't treat anyone well, would you actually trust it to raise children? My husband was in foster care...not fun, and that was 40 years ago!
I don't beleive there would be public support for it anyway. Very expensive. and whatabout quality of life? Isn't that the same question raised in the euthanasia issue? The question is raised at the end of a life and also at the begnning.

reply posted on 22-10-2009 @ 03:50 PM by Raist

reply to post by missvicky

Ah no that is my blunder. I did not mean that the government would raise the kids completely, that certainly would be disastrous.

I simply meant that they could help to cover the costs of raising them for families that could not afford adoption but wanted children. Also they could help until the child was adopted.

I think for it work properly though the current adoption system and children’s homes would need to be revamped. Certainly much could be done to improve things in both areas.

I would not want to see state raised children either, they would probably be like children of the corn or something.

As for cost, well they want to enact healthcare as well and it cannot be paid for.

If we could get the government to cut wasteful spending I believe we could afford both healthcare and a reformation and greater improvement of foster care.

Raist

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 12:47 AM by missvicky

reply to post by Raist

If we could get the government to cut wasteful spending I believe we could afford both healthcare and a reformation and greater improvement of foster care.

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HA HA HA!!!! That's the bottom line isn't it??? If we could have a gov't by and for and OF the People maybe we could do away with war and the ridiculaous amount of money involved there and maybe have a whole different point of view! Maybe a more compassioante, meaningful, free-er , prosperous life for EVERYONE! Ok, so I'm a Utopian. There, I've outed myself from the dream closet.
Alot of people pooh-pooh the idea. But you know what? In the last big bail out...remember the first $700M? It would've been cheaper and more productive to write a check for $1 million bucks to everyone alive in this country thans what they did.
I know this has gone a bit off topic, but I think we may be getting beneath the issue and discussing what might lie beneath.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 11:50 AM by piddles

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by piddles

The parents you mention though being held down. Are they held down because of the child they have or because of their education and choices they made in life that were not thought out well enough when they had the chance?

I only used the animal comparison because others have. I do not use animals in comparison to humans because I believe we are different in such a way we do not need to compare them.

The example you used though is more akin to euthanasia as compared to abortion though. Animals to my knowledge do not forcibly abort their offspring. Some may kill the offspring shortly after birth but that is different.

Not all children who grow up without parents turn out the way you describe. Many might but I see where at one point people/children make the choice that they want better and strive to get it. The only way to get better is to do things that improve upon your chances. Getting better grades and finding work (at an appropriate age) only help this. Choosing to go against the grain of society and doing criminal acts will not improve the situation.

I agree with your points one and two.

What about the death penalty and euthanasia though? What say you on these subjects? Also to add to the euthanasia part I’ll point to my other post on this page asking about helping people commit suicide that are healthy physically but not mentally/emotionally. Should we help them to end their life as well?

Raist

not everyone has the chance. People front like America is still the land of opportunity when most inner-city ghetto kids only hope is to make as the manager of a fast food joint or a construction worker. Trust me, I'm from the neighborhood, I lost all my childhood friends to the BS that goes on there.

When I use animals as an example, I compare them to the child/fetus, not the parent. I'm comparing having a pet to having a child because it's essentially the same thing except for the difference in maintenance.

and of course not all children grow up this way. Some kids know there's something better out there for them, and even fewer know how they can get it. My mother came to this country when she was 12 years old and didn't speak any english. Now we live in a roomy house by the beach in CA. That's proof enough right there, but the truth is, it doesn't happen often.

and in terms of the death penalty and euthanasia:

There are people who, for some odd reason, lack sympathy. The man who rapes the women and children has no regard for anyone in this world. I watched a man pimp an elderly drug addled couple at a burger joint 2 weeks ago. He threatened them, and as I watched helplessly, the couple was supposed to sit down and watch him eat.

Those people do not deserve to live.

Also Euthanasia is a bit like abortion in the sense that there is a life and a decision involved. I think Euthanasia should have an 18 year old age requirement. If you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to die if you want to. If you don't want to live anymore, why should it be anyone else's decision? The are technicalities like a dependent family, or a responsibility to people that must be upheld, once straightened out with paperwork and such,

one should be able to leave this mortal coil if they desire.

reply posted on 24-10-2009 @ 09:04 PM by Raist

reply to post by piddles

The comparing a pet though to a fetus is that the pet is already born so regardless it is still a euthanasia type of thing.

As for those who say they do not have a chance, bull. Do you know how many chances for scholarships there are for most of those people? You don’t even have to have great grades just be poor enough and the desire. It is all about the desire to change and be something. In order to keep that desire you have to look outside of the box that is holding you at that time. I know because I have worked my way out of such a box, through hard work. I don’t live by a beach but I do have a small house that keeps my family warm. I am still working on moving further forward. Anyone can make something of themselves even if it is nothing more than a factory worker. But we need people to do those jobs because if no one did we would all be screwed.

As for the guy threatening the older couple why is it that no one stepped in to help them? Is everyone that was around so afraid of helping those in need? Funny how so many want help but refuse to help when it is needed, that also goes with desire to better life around us.

Okay now for euthanasia. I agree sort of with the age maybe a bit younger in my opinion though say 16. But I wonder why there should be an age limit to that though? If one wants to die should they not be allowed to do so? What if it is nothing but a psychological issue that makes them want to die? Their suffering is still the same. If we do this should we do the death booth thing (from Futurama) a suicide booth where anyone can walk in and poof they die? Of course this thing would need to clean up the body as well or they might pile up fast.

Should we have a cut off with abortions? You know a certain time when the mother (baring medical conditions) cannot get an abortion or should it be free for all?

Sorry for all the questioning it seems each response causes more questions lol.

Raist

reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 12:17 AM by missvicky

reply to post by piddles

If you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to die if you want to.

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Well said.

reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 12:26 AM by missvicky

reply to post by Raist

IMHO: Personal issues should be free for all to make their own decisions.
You can't just put some cut off date that's going to work for everyone. One size does not fit all!! So it has to be that it's freed up for everyone to make their own decision. To me, no different than seat belts, helmets, anything that is personal choice. So when I say I'm pro choice, I really mean it. Pro choice on anything the gov't has no right to legislate.

reply posted on 26-10-2009 @ 09:05 PM by Raist

reply to post by missvicky

So if your daughter came to you one day and wanted to use a machine or doctor to commit suicide for no other reason than she wanted to die, you would be okay with that? Meaning she had no medical condition physically but her mental health started to fail due to depression. Would you still be fully okay for that? No trying to talk her out of it or anything?

Yes I know she could take her own life as people do that all the time (it has even happened within my own family). But if we opened up the table to choice euthanasia she could have another end her life or a machine do it with no one to be punished.

It would be her choice, and a personal issue. I am for people being able to make choices and all but it might be possible that some choices are better not being allowed to be made.

Raist

reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 12:21 AM by Annee

I have two daughters.

Both at different times came to me regarding abortion.

Oh wait! Those would be real situations and real life experiences.

My opinions have no value.

reply posted on 27-10-2009 @ 01:52 PM by Raist

reply to post by Annee

That is a bit narcissistic of you.

I never said your opinion had no value. I simply asked you questions you refused to answer. You have tried multiple times to derail the thread claiming it was centering on one of the three subjects the thread was about.

Again I ask for you to go troll elsewhere as I am getting rather sick of seeing your posts that have nothing to do with the thread at all. Either speak on the subject or subjects at hand or don’t bother posting.

You made it clear you were not going to answer the questions I ask so why even bother continuing to post here? Really why even bother if you feel your voice is not being heard?
Have a nice day.
Raist

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