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How Would A Public Option Compare To Private?

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posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 07:54 AM
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We have a very good indicator with Medicare as to how a government run 'public option' would compare to private in denying treatment.

Does Medicare Care?


Throughout the health care debate, insurance companies have been cast as greedy villains that gleefully deny medical claims. But when it comes to rejecting claims, they can't hold a candle to the government.

Medicare, which we've described as the government's public option for senior citizens, has the highest denial rate in the country, according to the American Medical Association's 2008 National Health Insurer Report Card.

From March 1, 2007, to March 10 of last year, Medicare rejected 475,566 of 6.94 million claims for a rate of 6.85%.

Aetna was the only private insurer that had a similar number, denying 43,317 of 637,239 claims for a rate of 6.8%. But the average of seven carriers was 4.05% including Aetna. Dropping Aetna as an outlier takes the denial rate down to 3.08%.


[edit on 10/8/09 by Ferris.Bueller.II]




posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Now that I retired I'm on Medicare and I can say they've never denied my claim... what they do is tell me I'm going to have to pay, out of pocket, a large %...

So some examples are my doctor charges $150 for an office visit my co-pay is $80 I do have a good deal on drugs though $1,50 for generics or $5 bucks for name brand... what you really have to watch for is the doctors trying to get you set up for services you don't need or want...

Keep in mind I have a bad back had two surgeries and take pain pills that all have OXY in their names... plus my wife of 35 years now has a pace maker.... bad heart... she's a lot better now that they put in that pacemaker... still the last thing she or I need is a script for Viagra! at $20 dollars a pop I might add...(Pun intended)



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II
 


The only way to shake the foundation's of private insurance is with a Public option that any American can qualify for it.

And the promise that no America will be deny health care for any reasons.

But the problem here is that so far mandatory private health care insurance is nothing but another way to allow private insurance to keep their shady practices and gouge the consumer more while the government uses tax payer funds to subsidize those than can not afford it.

Meanwhile the rest of the nation tax payer will have to then pay for no only Medicare and Medicaid but also for those that can not qualified and then for their own mandatory private insurance coverage.

Without public option is not such thing as health care reform.

BTW My husband is a retired Marine and we have government insurance for the last 10 years, is no free but has so far been good to us specially when I had two major surgeries those two 10 years and once diagnosed my surgeries were within weeks not months or waiting list or years, I see my doctor any time I want too and the most I have pay for my medications is 9 dollars .

So I have experience on how the government runs health care for people like the Military retirees.

Yes the government can be very efficient when it wants too



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:13 AM
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Here is what will happen.

The "rich" (or those who believe that healthcare is pretty important and budget for it) will continue to buy supplemental insurance. The poor, who could not afford health care anyways, will still not be able to afford the public option and will get fined for not buying it.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II
 


Well for one a private only option will not bankrupt the country, and another we won't be paying for other peoples insurance.

The thing the Democrats cannot seem to get through their thick skulls is that we have no money to pay for this stuff right now, and they do not seem to care how we are going to pay for it. I guess they just figure they can hike are taxes until they get it all as usual.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by StinkyFeet
 


How do you know, did you have read the bills in congress?, guess what, tax payer will be paying for subsidies you know what subsidies are? it means they will be taking your tax payer money to send checks to pay for those that can not afford the mandatory private insurance.

Still you know that as long as you work you get to pay mandatory Medicare and Medicaid right? straight from your pay check, you know when you get your stub after your pay day check look how much you are paying for Medicare and Medicaid.

Then on top of that you have to buy private insurance because will be mandatory or you will get penalized, after all if you work you will have to pay for private insurance or else.

Read the bills my friend, no public option means that health care reform is nothing but a joke.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Healthcare reform is a joke regardless. Why should an insurance company have to pay for someone with a pre-existing condition? That just means I could not have insurance my whole life and then when I find I have cancer I could run and go get a policy. That doesn' make a bit of sense.

The thing you don't want to admit is that a "robust" public option, is just a step to a single payer system that the democrats are trying to slip in us from behind.

We are still going to be paying for Medicare and Medicaid regardless of this bill. It doesn't just become free to give healthcare to old and poor people all of the sudden.

The truth is we cannot afford this. We are competing against the Chinese, and if we want to remain, well become, competitive then we are going to have to sacrifice. Plus we already have a 1.4 trillion dollar deficit just THIS YEAR, should we really be adding to it.

I don't know about you but I am forced to pay for enough crap by the government, why would I want to be FORCED to pay for more. I want to choose whether or not I want to buy healthcare, and if one day I don't have it and I get sick and go bankrupt then it will be my own damn fault and I will live with the consequences of my choices. I don't need a nanny state to take care of me.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 




Then on top of that you have to buy private insurance because will be mandatory or you will get penalized, after all if you work you will have to pay for private insurance or else.


Or else I go to jail thanks to the Democrats love of social-communism. If things stayed as they have been then I wouldn't get punished at all.

Personally, I hope they are not able to pass anything other than maybe setting it up so that insurance companies cannot cancel a loyal customers policy once they get sick.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by StinkyFeet
reply to post by marg6043
 




Then on top of that you have to buy private insurance because will be mandatory or you will get penalized, after all if you work you will have to pay for private insurance or else.


Or else I go to jail thanks to the Democrats love of social-communism. If things stayed as they have been then I wouldn't get punished at all.

Personally, I hope they are not able to pass anything other than maybe setting it up so that insurance companies cannot cancel a loyal customers policy once they get sick.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]


Its statements like this, that slow the process of reform down. Nothing constructive, only damning of people and distraction. What a bunch of garbage, non productive rhetoric.

You lend nothing to the conversation other than division and personal hate filled attacks. Just as the GOP has done.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by uaocteaou
 


Well since you are such a great addition to this thread, why don't you tell me how we are going to pay for this without a massive tax hike or by running the yearly deficit even higher. You do realize at some point China and others will quit loaning us money, right?



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by StinkyFeet
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II
 


Well for one a private only option will not bankrupt the country, and another we won't be paying for other peoples insurance.

The thing the Democrats cannot seem to get through their thick skulls is that we have no money to pay for this stuff right now, and they do not seem to care how we are going to pay for it. I guess they just figure they can hike are taxes until they get it all as usual.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]


if we just role back the tax breaks given to the rich by bush, it would more than pay for healthcare costs

i hope they hike the taxes on the wealthy as much as they can, the wealthy have been sucking on the teat of the american workers production for too long, claiming they need the tax-break money to create jobs here in america for american workers...so how is that working out?

www.demos.org...

IRS income and tax data is not available for people making over a million a year...i wonder why?? i guess the average american just doesn't need that information.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by StinkyFeet
reply to post by marg6043
 


Why should an insurance company have to pay for someone with a pre-existing condition?


Because they are offering a service for a fee.



That just means I could not have insurance my whole life and then when I find I have cancer I could run and go get a policy. That doesn't' make a bit of sense.


Or you will be leaching the Medicare and Medicaid anyway as you will be treated regarless.

BTW my mother and father are now on Medicare as they are both over 65, guess what they both get two hundred dollars deducted from their SS checks to pay for medical care regardless, that means even people that have worked all their lives to reap the benefits of SS still get to pay the government for Medicare.

Yes I bet you didn't know that did you.



The thing you don't want to admit is that a "robust" public option, is just a step to a single payer system that the democrats are trying to slip in us from behind.


I bet that will put out of business the the same corrupted private insurance businesses that deny coverage to people with long term diseases, right?

But taking into consideration that people has been misinformed about what the Democrats wants or not, the so call socialization of America is nothing but a joke play at the expenses of our taxes, Obama and any administration run in our corporate owned nation have nothing socialized at all, for the contrary what is going on is nothing more than forcing the tax payer in the nation to support yet more corruption by mandate.

Or you forgot that making mandatory to buy private health care insurance has nothing to do with socialization of health care but the biggest bailout ot private insurance since the bailout of the corrupted banking system.

Wake up and smell the deceptions.

Republics are as corporate whores as the democrats are.


No government in this so call "free nation" should be forcing the population to support any private owned businesses by congress mandate, that is unconstitutional and short of fraud against the tax payer in the nation.


[edit on 8-10-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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It bothers me very much when people say Socialize health system. We are paying for it 3 times one way or the other and yet we are not getting the treatment. Single payer is the only way to control the cost and bring the quality of health care up. I make this statement based on my personal knowledge not that I am following some propagandist. I have many friends and relatives in Medical fields. I even met Insurance executives in Parties and I was close to Politicians and Gangsters at some point of my life. I know what is going on. Unless Americans rise up and demand single payer Government Option. There is nothing that is going to change other than getting more and more Americans without Insurance. Those of you that have the coverage today, don't count on it tomorrow. If you think you work for the Government and you got good coverage. Wait until Government cannot meet the budget. At some point things will collapse. Unless you do something today, tomorrow it will be too late. I am telling you single payer option is the only way. Just like Americans were complaining about welfare. Corporations are still getting it but it was little Joe blow that Bill Clinton exploited it. Just to balance the budget. Bill Clinton got rid of welfare for the poor. I know big corporations are still getting it. It is either in the shape of Research and Development, creation of jobs , bail outs etc. etc. You name it. If you are close to Politicians, they will show you how to apply for it or they will create something for you that you can apply. So don't be fool and cut the throat of your own little Joe blow. This is our own tax money. We deserve it the most. Than allowing the Government to pass it on to the rich dudes.
I remember a few years back a news paper article about a Carpenter from Carolina who needed pacemaker but didn't have Insurance. He sold his home for 20K went to India. Got pacemaker and had fun sightseeing. It cost him total of 10K including Air Fair. Last year my out of pocket cost for only 3 in the family for Medical was over 5K. I avoid going to Doctor. If I can I live off herbs because I am not getting the treatment. I know you all will jump to conclusions, but trust me the help I have, it is always a fight and I am tired of it. It shouldn't be that way. When you are sick, it should be without any worry to get help. And that should be the end of it.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 


The removing the tax breaks wont cover the cost of universal healthcare, but even if it did wouldnt we be much wiser to use that money to lover the deficit and get our financial house in order?



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


You know I do not even know where to begin to reply to your last post, because you seem to have trouble understanding finances and basic concepts. No offense, meant. I just wanted to explain why I haven't really given you an answer.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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What the supporters of the Public Option fail to understand is that none of this legislation addresses bringing down the COST of healthcare. It deals with trying to bring down the cost of insurance, but you can only bring the cost per individual so far by controlling the cost of insurance.

There will be no cost reduction in healthcare unless:
1. There is TORT reform.
2. Doctors and hospitals start charging less.
3. We quit paying for the healthcare of illegal aliens.

One huge thing that could be done to control the cost of insurance though is to let them all compete with each other across state lines. Capitalism at its finest.

edit to say Tort reform not Tarp reform, oops



[edit on 8-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by StinkyFeet
 


Try me dear you be surprised, after all I got a degree in business, so hit dear, hit me.

Or I will have to take your post as way to bailout of a debate that you have not clue how to answer.



You still think this about getting rid of private health care?

Guess what this e-mail was send to my husband today, yes a retire marine on governmetn benefits, it seems that now that the governmetn is going to give the best give away to the private insurance busineess they are also to cut or eliminate the military retirees government insurance and force them to buy private insurance, and the surprise they have been planning this for many years.

TRICARE CHANGES


This is true. It is on pages 77, 172, 218, and 434. You have to dig to see the changes. We (retirees) would lose the Medicare for

life benefit and would have to pay. We would lose TRICARE as a total care
package. We would not be allowed to keep TRICARE

so when Obama stands and says if you like what you have you can keep it, he
lies.

This is a "Heads Up" on a battle we are facing now and down the road with
the new Administration. The Congressional Budget

Office (CBO) has already drafted proposed legislation that would basically
reduce our TRICARE for Life benefits to a system

whereby we pay deductibles and co-pays up to $6,301 the first year for you
and your spouse, with future years being indexed

to increase with inflation. What can we do? The article below, obtained
from an Air Force Association and written by

BG Bob Clements, best describes what we can do. Please read it and check
the links for CBO language and do what Bob

says-Send this email to every Military Retiree you know and write and email
your Congressman often. For those of you that

might have voted for "Change", you should do it more than often!

TRICARE FOR LIFE'S FUTURE . . .

TRICARE For Life was instituted to correct the broken promise that military
retirees would receive free healthcare

coverage for life and it covers the Medicare co-pay. Now a heavy assault has
begun on Veterans'/Retirees' benefits to

pay for other programs our President promised during the campaign. And it is
a high priority of his administration. The one

item of most interest to Retired Military is in Article 189. If approved by
Congress the first assault wave would hit in 11 and

would hit hard. It would initiate cost sharing to require retirees to pay
the first $525 of medical cost and 50% of the next $4,725

for a first year cost of $2,888 per person. It would be indexed to increase
with inflation. A reason given for this action

(for PR effect) is "overuse" by Retirees.

For those of you who are covered by TFL you will want to pay attention
(Below) to what BG Bob Clements has surfaced

about the future of TFL. In any case, on page 189 of the Congressional
Budget Office report, see the note below on how to

get to that spot, there is a strong recommendation to eventually eliminate
the program as it is too expensive. Just another move

to slight those of us who dedicated much of our adult lives to the defense
of our country.

www.cbo.gov...

Socialized health care my butt, this is nothing but a give away and we are to all pay for it

Mandatory health care but is private health careIf military retirees are to lose their governemtn health care benefits and have to pay for it, I wonder what is there for those that think this is going to save them money.

My friend you have been deceived and so many of Americans in the nation that still thinks this all about government take over.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by StinkyFeet
 


Wrong, Capitalism is not free when the tax payer and citizens in the nation have to be forced by government to support private entities, that is unconstitutional and right down dictatorship.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I agree with you that forcing people to buy insurance should be unconstitutional and it is wrong to expect that in a free nation. My point is that is what the Democratic Congress's idea of healthcare reform is. The publc option doesn't make it any better, its just another option we are forced to buy and its purpose is to lead to a single payer system over time.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by StinkyFeet]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by StinkyFeet
 


I am telling you my friend, is nothing about public option on the health care reform.

That is the wishful thinking of people like me, because that would mean that my husband and I will keep our military government run health care.

But is not going to happen, the bill that will be pass in congress when they do, is only to make mandatory that we all that work and earn a living pay for private health care.

In my husband instance his retirement check will become a target to make sure he pay his due to private insurance if the military retirees are forced into private insurance.



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