reply to post by Seventh
There are certain parts of an aircraft that survive the crash no matter what, yet for some unknown reason 9/11 has been elevated to `Anything is
possible this day` status, and we are led to believe that whatever seems completely wrong regarding anything related to the planes, it is acceptable
because... `Yeah man, but this was 9/11`.
No matter what, these parts endured nothing more (apart from the Tower collapses) than the normal scenarios involving plane crashes endure, plane hits
ground, building, water, plane explodes due to it`s fuel content, crash investigators screen the site and return with x2 black boxes (1 cockpit voice
recorder, 1 data), the engines, landing gear, parts of debris, Jet fuel is neither a high explosive nor has the capabilities of completely vaporising
items made of titanium - plain and simple, 9/11 was no different to what these parts were subject to.
Firstly - Flight 93 and the COCKPIT flight recorder, I thought these recorded the voices of those in the cockpit (hence the name), so how was it
possible that the passengers can be heard on this one?.
Secondly - The Pentagon.... This part of the cockpit and engine were just two from the many parts of debris recovered from the Lockerbie disaster - A
747 cruising at 31,000 feet when a bomb on board exploded, and the remains of other aircraft including an engine from Concorde, and a burnt out plane,
burnt out due to grade A kerosene, exactly the same substance that was in the fuel tanks of all four planes from 9/11, notice the two intact engines,
if engines are vaporised then it was not jet fuel they were subject to.
Also a comparison of what happens to the vegetation when jet fuel ignites.
WTC - Where do you start with this bucketful of anomalies, the impact of WTC2, and probably the main cause of this thread, we can all see the initial
jet fuel explosion then within a millisecond BOOM!!!, as all hell breaks loose (blatant secondary upon impact explosions.).
Please do not tell us that is jet fuel exploding, it went from orange flame and white smoke to red flame and soot.
Next we have the engine that was shot from the building, let`s compare that and the Pentagon one - to three others involved in crashes including one
that plummeted to Earth from 31,000 feet above us......
Four planes - 8 black boxes, 12 landing gears, 8 engines, 28 of parts that have a nigh on 100% chance of being retrieved from crashes in accessible
places, no matter what, these were 4 planes and jet fuel, nothing more, nothing less.
You forum plane experts know all that is above is correct, why are you overlooking these points?.
*SNIP - No need for the personal attacks - Cheers, alien
While each aircraft accident is unique there are some similarities
The character of the debris fields depends on 2 major factors
Speed and angle of impact
Higher speed accidents result in greater degree of fragnmention as do
impacts at steep angle of impact
What survives is the impact more or less recognizable depends on those
factors and random chance
PAN AM 103 - the pictures you posted broke up at altitude do to bomb
in cargo compartment. Because of this were several large pieces which
impacted ground. One of which struck village of Lockerbie destroying
entire neighborhood
The explosion punched a 20-inch (0.51 m)-wide hole on the left side of the fuselage, almost directly under the 'P' in Pan Am. The disintegration of
the aircraft was rapid.
The nerve centre of a 747, from which all the navigation and communication systems are controlled, is below the cockpit, separated from the forward
cargo hold by a bulkhead wall. Investigators concluded that the force of the explosion broke through this wall and shook the flight-control cables,
causing the front section of the fuselage to begin to roll, pitch, and yaw.[citation needed]
These violent movements snapped the reinforcing belt that secured the front section to the row of windows on the left side and it began to break away.
At the same time, shock waves from the blast ricocheted back from the fuselage skin in the direction of the bomb, meeting pulses still coming from the
initial explosion. This produced Mach stem shock waves, calculated to be 25% faster than, and double the power of, the waves from the explosion
itself.[11][page needed] These shock waves rebounded from one side of the aircraft to the other, running down the length of the fuselage through the
air-conditioning ducts and splitting the fuselage open.[13] A section of the 747's roof several feet above the point of detonation peeled away. The
Mach stem waves pulsing through the ductwork bounced off overhead luggage racks and other hard surfaces, jolting the passengers.[citation needed]
Although the explosion was in the aircraft hold, the effect was increased by the large difference between aircraft cabin pressure and the outside air
pressure (the latter is about a quarter of the former). The front section of the aircraft, containing the flight deck with crew and the first class
section, broke away, striking the No. 3 Pratt & Whitney engine as it snapped off.[citation needed]
Investigators believe that within three seconds of the explosion, the cockpit, fuselage, and No.3 engine were falling separately. The fuselage
continued moving forward and down until it reached 19,000 ft (6000 m), at which point its dive became almost vertical.[14]
As it descended, the fuselage broke into smaller pieces, with the section attached to the wings landing first (46.5 seconds after the explosion)[15]
in Sherwood Crescent, Lockerbie, where the 200,000 lb (91,000 kg) of aviation fuel contained inside ignited. The resultant fireball destroyed several
houses and was so intense that little remained of the left wing of the aircraft. No remains were ever found of any of the passengers who were seated
over this section of the wing. Investigators were able to determine that both wings had landed in the crater after counting the number of large steel
flap drive jackscrews that were later found there[11][page needed] - indeed there were no finds of wing structure outside the crater itself.[16]
Aircraft at WTC were travelling from 470 mph (Tower 1) to 530 mph (Tower 2)
The impacts at the WTC left several large pieces intact - jet engine on Rector Street, aircraft seat in trunk of car, aircraft wheel embedded in
section of exterior wall on street
These pieces had travelled through building and emerged on other side
In the 1945 crash of B25 into Empire State Building one of the motors
punched all way through to land on roof of adjacent structure.
Problem was lot of the aircraft remained inside WTC - where it was exposed to intense fires and was subsequently involved in building collapse
While jet engines, flight recorders and landing gear are engineered to
resist tremendous forces are not indestructible. Aluminium alloys melt
at about 600 C (1200) and will burn if heated enough. Ever seen an
aluminium beer can after being tossed in camp fire? Not lot left...
Even heavy duty pieces like landing gear struts can be smashed into
small unrecognizable fragments if impacts are great enough
As for vegetation in jet fuel fire - seen this one up close at 3AM when
business jet aircraft smashed into my neighborhood. While fireball was
impressive there were no secondary fires from it. Vegetation was only
singed
As for debris - the one who hit in my town left few recognizable pieces
2 x 3 ft piece of tail fin, landing gear light which hit parked car. Rest
was smashed into "metallic confetti" including 2 jet engines with titanium blades, landing gear and other heavy duty pieces. This plane hit at
estimated 350 mph at 80 deg angle into hill
[edit on 7-10-2009 by alien]
You build a very good case for the fact that it was not jet fuel (kerosene) exploding, and you give great examples of other
crashes with more impact and less accessibility, yet having more debris recovered, and recovery of the black boxes. You provide photos; it seems like
a good case, but then you say it WAS 4 planes? 
. 
