Is compromise possible between militant atheists and religious believers?

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Donny 4 million

 

I don't know where you get that. He claimed Stalin's excesses had nothing to do with atheism and was in fact for a "religious" belief. I merely pointed out the fact that he is lying, despite the fact he no doubt believes it himself. And, I don't really have much of a horse in this argument as I believe both sides would be better off not arguing and simply agreeing to disagree without all of this rhetoric, it only breeds conflict and atrocity as history shows.

Maybe it is just me. What I see with atheism is that it is more a political tool than it is anti Creation. It is a failed attempt at Communism as validated today. That is not to say Marxist, Leninist, Bolshevism is gone from the world stage. Stalin just drove it out of Russia and let the church return to prominence. Bolshevistic Zionism is what plagues the earth today. The ideology is the same just well discuised.

You are all missing the Point. It's true that politics was invoilved, but people are motivated by more than just politics. Beliefs have consequences....some good and some bad. Marx and Hilter believed in Darwin's natural selection and survival of the fittest. These core beliefs were used to justify the invasion of smaller countries and the murdering of millions. I already demonstrated this over and over but you just won't listen.

Sirnex: I don't care how many U2U's you bragg about getting from people who don't like my stand and who support the insults you spew at me:

reply to post by John Matrix


Get off of the Hitler issue, he was a believer in God. I gave you a quote from his own book, something *he* wrote and said himself. Atheistic belief had nothing to do with the actions and crimes committed by your fellow brethren. As much as you want to kick and scream otherwise, you just simply can not argue against the man himself, he's the end all in this debate and he owns your buttocks in this regard, so kiss the left one.

[EDIT TO ADD]

In response to the video, it is quiet pathetic that you seriously think atheists are by nature incapable of good will or deeds. I have much to say about my own life in regards to every single point made in that video. We are not evil little trolls looking to destroy everything in sight. Again, that is the Christian domain as evident from Christian actions. You people are not the chosen one's which is why your faith has been the most violent in it's rise to dominance.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by sirnex]

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Get off of the Hitler issue, he was a believer in God. I gave you a quote from his own book, something *he* wrote and said himself. Atheistic belief had nothing to do with the actions and crimes committed by your fellow brethren. As much as you want to kick and scream otherwise, you just simply can not argue against the man himself, he's the end all in this debate and he owns your buttocks in this regard, so kiss the left one.

Like I said.....Hitler's God was the Devil himself....same as yours...as indicated in the link in your own signature.

In response to the video, it is quiet pathetic that you seriously think atheists are by nature incapable of good will or deeds. I have much to say about my own life in regards to every single point made in that video. We are not evil little trolls looking to destroy everything in sight. Again, that is the Christian domain as evident from Christian actions. You people are not the chosen one's which is why your faith has been the most violent in it's rise to dominance.

Justifying yourself ? Getting a bit paranoid maybe?
Relax. It's not worth getting stressed out over.

Athiests that I know seem like good people.
Better than a lot of relgious people I know...but...

they all FEEL religious to me.
The insistence that THEY are right.
The athiests stand behind science.
The religious stand behind the Bible.
I'm a poor pagan without Bible or a total trust in the ability of science to KNOW the truth about EVERYTHING.

reply to post by silent thunder

Is compromise possible between militant atheists and religious believers?

First of all, that is quite a loaded question with the application of the word, 'militant'.

Beyond that, the only compromise that is really needed is that both the believer and nonbeliever come to accept the existence of the other as fact, and that the winning of converts is not a pursuit that is likely to yield anything worth the trouble of the effort.

In a nutshell, live and let live.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by redoubt]

Originally posted by hadriana
Athiests that I know seem like good people.
Better than a lot of relgious people I know...but...

they all FEEL religious to me.
The insistence that THEY are right.
The athiests stand behind science.
The religious stand behind the Bible.
I'm a poor pagan without Bible or a total trust in the ability of science to KNOW the truth about EVERYTHING.

Well, to be an atheist does not mean that somehow man has to be "neutral" or doubt that he is right. If we are convinced that we are right, then we say it aloud, just like religious people like to. There is no difference between us and religious people in this.

The difference is that we like to base our conviction on the evidence and proofs, rather than faith...

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Maslo]

reply to post by John Matrix


As an atheist, I neither believe in nor follow any supernatural entity as they don't exist as far as I am able to discern from the provided evidences. What Hitler followed was not the same as what I follow, attempting to equate Hitler with me is just ridiculous as I don't condone nor commit any form of murder or genocide and certainly not in the name of God.

Nor was I attempting to justify myself with the added response to the video, just simply stating that all the supposed 'good' attributes the video discusses I have actually done and accomplished in my short time already on this planet and will most likely act out on those same good qualities many more times. Your belief that atheists must some how be inherently evil and chock full of sin does nothing more than to show your ignorance towards what morality truly is. You can't even follow the word of your God, that being Jesus Christ and not the God of the OT and seeing as how he preaches a faith of love, kindness and respect, you are failing to heed his word. So either way we slice and dice it, your fudged and going to hell. Following the wrong God and not even properly following the God you think is the right one. Typical Christian.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by sirnex]

reply to post by sirnex

Then change the title of your sig, it's disgraceful and reflect very negatively on you.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


I see no reason not to honestly. If you ask me, Satan got the feces end of the stick. He gets eternal damnation for demanding being treated equal to God and for given humanity the gift of knowledge? Please, is that truly, honestly really evil? God is nothing more than an egotistical genocidal maniac demanding you worship him or risk an eternity in a hell hole he created himself for those who reject him. It's like Saddam is God's hero or something, do as I say or die!

God is a God of love. If there is a Satan or a rebellious principal, it is an enemy of man, which seeks to pull us into separation from God, and the motive I think, is jealousy, of man's stature in God's design, being so low, and yet raised up, higher than the angels, and infinitely higher than the rebel Satan. You are duped, and deluded into taking a position which is at enmity with both God and mankind, where the motive force, is love. If you stand with Satan, you stand with hatred, and separation, but "to each his own" as they say..

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Show one evil act committed by Satan, just one. Job doesn't count as God granted Satan permission to mess with him, so he is an equal party. God created evil, not Satan, so if anyone is to take blame it is the almighty creator of *everything*.

Originally posted by John Matrix

My answer back is best explained by the molecular biologists and bio chemists featured in this video.

[edit on 9/10/09 by John Matrix]

Then, I’m afraid you really don’t have an answer.
It’s wrong about SETI
www.space.com...
It’s wrong about Meyer and Dembski
www.talkreason.org...
And Behe...poor Behe..he’s had his butt handed to him on a plate so many times it’s a wonder he can sit down.

Department of Biological Sciences at Lehigh University
The department faculty, then, are unequivocal in their support of evolutionary theory, which has its roots in the seminal work of Charles Darwin and has been supported by findings accumulated over 140 years. The sole dissenter from this position, Prof. Michael Behe, is a well-known proponent of "intelligent design." While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific.
www.lehigh.edu...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial, Behe gave testimony on the subject of irreducible complexity. The court found that "Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large."

reply to post by Donny 4 million


Do you realise who coined this term?

Bolshevistic Zionism

I'll give you a hint. He had a funny mustache and caused ALOT of suffering. Communism as part and parcel of it's rhetoric was an atheistic system. That is NOT me trying to demonise atheism though, it's a simple fact of history. To qualify one's belief system in an attempt to pretend that it is somehow magically pure from human tendencies which include his darker side is unrealistic and only opens the door for more attrocity. If there is anything that is shown in history it is that mankind can and will kill for just about anything. Hell, I am sure people have killed for peanut butter preference.

[edit on 11-10-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Pauligirl


Nice!

It's no surprise the falcuty does not endorse his beliefs in ID and they refer to Darwin's Frauds as "Seminal"?

I have no doubt there are many other science institutions that won't support Behe's position....but I don't see how you can claim he has had his butt handed to him.

He's not the only biologist that believes in ID either. There are many well known and respected biologists, geneticists, and physicists who also believe in ID.

Nice try, but if you read all my posts, watched all the videos I linked to, and read all the articles I linked to, in support of my position, you would have realized your post was not going to convince me of anything.

You won the support of the other atheists though. Enjoy your popularity with them.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by OmegaPoint

 

I see no reason not to honestly. If you ask me, Satan got the feces end of the stick. He gets eternal damnation for demanding being treated equal to God and for given humanity the gift of knowledge? Please, is that truly, honestly really evil? God is nothing more than an egotistical genocidal maniac demanding you worship him or risk an eternity in a hell hole he created himself for those who reject him. It's like Saddam is God's hero or something, do as I say or die!

Actually Satan wanted it all....he declared Himself better than God. He wanted to rule over God, the Universe, Earth, and all spiritual dimensions.
That's why Satan is limited in His powers and gets eternal damnation. Being One in Spirit with God was not enough for him

reply to post by John Matrix


Really, where does it say that?

Isaiah 14:12 I will make myself like the Most High.

How exactly does this read as making himself more than God? Sounds more like being like God or equal to God. Equality is not inherently and evil thing.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

 

Wow, I'm not sure where you got that one... Don't recall ever stating Stalin was influenced by religion. Who's lying now?

What I did say was that the influence was more political than atheistic. Marxism is a political movement, not a practice for the sole purpose of pushing atheism forward violently upon people. So, as far as I am concerned, no one still hasn't killed in the name of atheism in order to push atheism to be a dominate belief system. This still remains the domain of Christianity and monotheistic religion in general.

If you want to put words in my mouth, at least have the decency to quote me on it.

I see where you're coming from here, sirnex but the fact remains that without atheism, Marxism as a political philosophy would fail one of its own main directives - to eliminate the "opiate of the masses" i.e., religion. In fact the Christian religion in its various incarnations throughout the world has been one of the staunchest opponents of communism...My point is that no matter what the group there will always be members who are complete dickwads regardless of what they SAY they believe... that is why I never judge a person by their label - be it atheist or Christian, dogcatcher or scientist...

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by Pauligirl

 

Nice!

It's no surprise the falcuty does not endorse his beliefs in ID and they refer to Darwin's Frauds as "Seminal"?

I have no doubt there are many other science institutions that won't support Behe's position....but I don't see how you can claim he has had his butt handed to him.

He's not the only biologist that believes in ID either. There are many well known and respected biologists, geneticists, and physicists who also believe in ID.

Nice try, but if you read all my posts, watched all the videos I linked to, and read all the articles I linked to, in support of my position, you would have realized your post was not going to convince me of anything.

You won the support of the other atheists though. Enjoy your popularity with them.

Oh, I know it’s not going to convince you of anything. I’m just pointing out that he’s wrong. Why is it no surprise that the Department of Biological Sciences at Lehigh University don’t endorse his beliefs in ID–it’s because he’s wrong. Why do not other science institutions support Behe's position–it’s because he’s wrong. If he was right, it wouldn’t matter what religion he was. But he’s not right.

My being an atheist has nothing to do with my disbelief in the pseudo-science of ID. It's just not science.