DHS strips Arizona sheriff of authority to patrol for illegal immigrants

Originally posted by tyranny22
reply to post by Phlegmi

 

If the people whose jurisdiction it IS had the manpower to handle the obscene influx of illegal immigrants into the United States, I guess the sheriff wouldn't have to worry about operating outside his jurisdiction would he?

IF he doesn't lay off....he's gonna get a BIG lesson by "big brother" on what the consequences are for those that operate outside their federal, state or local jurisdiction.

Originally posted by saber13
reply to post by Erasurehead

 

"nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property"

No it applies to any person just like it says, any and all

It does not say nor shall any state deprive any American citizen of life, liberty, or property, but ANY PERSON.

So there should be no jails or prisons whatsoever?

Brilliant!

I've been the butt end of 'suspect fitting the description' and its crap. Just pure crap. I am a Hispanic male - I've been pulled over for DWM *driving while Mexican*, I've been taken out of my car and cuffed and taken to jail because the officer was just sure I had stolen this brand new Dodge Dakota I'd bought from my dad two months beforehand.

It sucks and I hate it and it doesn't matter if you break the law or not, LEO is gonna find a way to check you out if they want to, and you can't ignore flashers or its fleeing...

Whatever man. So, only one percent of LEO break the law - let's apply some Cheney doctrine to it and see how it pans out.

Arpaio may have violated someone's civil rights? one percent doctrine then....


(Note: the Cheney doctrine AKA 1% doctrine states that if there is a one percent chance of something, then it should be treated as verified and handled with sharp, overwhelming force).

Not so good on that foot, is it?

EDIT: The reality is that the law is not a hammer, a bludgeon, nor a sledgehammer - its should be applied like a stiletto - with a surgical strike and to the hilt. Many LEOs are taking their power and abusing it, IMHO Arpaio is one of them. I love a lot of what he does - pink drawers and tent cities and hard labor. Targeting a population to fish out some criminals, though, is wrong, no matter how you cut it. Its discrimination because it prioritizes one crime at the detriment of enforcing other, equally applicable laws and needed crime deterrence.

The law and its application must be even handed or its simply another way to harm the people.

[edit on 7/10/09 by MagoSA]

The Feds are gonna force Arpaio out of office and I can honestly say I don't feel all that sorry for him.He comes across as thinking he's untouchable well,"Sheriff" guess what? you are not I expect by the end of the year he will come to regret ever being elected.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
not sure where I stand on this

firstly how can you "patrol" for illegal immigrants?
someone explain this to me?

It's easy. You look for mexicans, stop then, question them, and make them prove they're citizens and if they can't, drag them off to jail.

secondly, as an aside, since illegal immigrants don't pay income tax I guess they are model americans that every citizen can learn from

Yes none of us should pay taxes so we don't have to worry about things like roads, electricity, social programs, etc...

He will conduct one in two weeks “with a new twist.” Arpaio did not go into further detail about what that means.

So now does he have to do his patrol while speaking into the loudspeaker "This is a patrol all illegal immigrants come out"?

I still think we should annex Mexico, or at least make it's status like Puerto Rico's

Originally posted by js331975
I still think we should annex Mexico, or at least make it's status like Puerto Rico's

Hell yeah! I truly believe that is our ONLY legitimate answer to saving our economy...IF Mexico will have us

If we could make that acquisition, then look out south america...we will own that too. We have raped our natural resources, so why not go for our neighbors...we have a history of it.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by Aggie Man]

When a crime is committed the police will broadcast a description of the suspect should they have one. Anyone in the area matching that description (race, clothing, build, vehicle, etc) will probably be stopped and questioned.

This is not racial profiling.

Racial profiling is where the police decide that only the black people are engaging in criminal behavior so they begin pulling over only black people for no reason other than the color of their skin.

There are specific areas where high numbers of crimes take place where the police are allowed to profile (profile as in look for various aspects common to those who engage in criminal acts).

Border cities like Phoenix have huge populations of illegal aliens and an unbelievable number of them who commit crimes. Even in cities which do not border Mexico the number of illegal aliens locked up (usually as repeat offenders who were never deported or came right back) is so high as to approach ridiculousness.

This is the only country where anyone can apply to become a full citizen in the millions of persons per year. We do more than our fair share of allowing people who want to live a better life to do so. We do not need to bring in cheap labor, people who cannot support themselves and who commit criminal acts.

If your concept of immigration is all sunshine and butterflies I suggest you try sneaking into Mexico. Go and see how they treat illegal immigrants.

Our economy is in enough trouble. Part of the reason for that is the unbelievable costs associated with our government's policy of leaving the doors wide open to illegals. Hospitals are closing because of the federal law requiring them to give care to illegals who cannot pay for it. The few border region hospitals still open pass on those losses to American citizens.

Like it or not we all pay for the few businesses who think they're saving money. In truth, the drain on the system and on all of us is astronomical. For every hard working illegal who actually pays taxes and does not drain the welfare coffers there are two dozen more who file for multiple support accounts, speed breed and do their best to game the system. Look at the government's own numbers on this and stop looking to liberal news sources. The costs are choking the healthcare system, state budgets, schools, etc.

Something needs to be done. If the federal government wants to ignore the problem then you will see more and more local solutions. The feds have reasons for allowing this flood of illegals, none of which benefit the citizens. Its problem, reaction, solution and the illegals are being used to provide a number of problems in need of solutions you will not want.

I don't like Sheriff Joe. I don't have to in order to support what he is doing and wishing more would do the same. His shortcomings in some areas do not mean everything he does is wrong.

way to keep those eyes open OP. This is a huge deal.

Unfortunately it will never get the attention it deserves here because everyone is to busy piling in the blame america bandwagon, or kissing the rump of the new Messiah who will save us all from ourselves.

It warms my heart to know that this man will do whats needs to be done in spite of Big Bush/Obama/Brother

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
not sure where I stand on this

firstly how can you "patrol" for illegal immigrants?
someone explain this to me?

It's easy. You look for mexicans, stop then, question them, and make them prove they're citizens and if they can't, drag them off to jail.

secondly, as an aside, since illegal immigrants don't pay income tax I guess they are model americans that every citizen can learn from

Yes none of us should pay taxes so we don't have to worry about things like roads, electricity, social programs, etc...

Don't confuse local taxes with federal taxes. None of your federal income tax goes to provide services. 100 percent of it is turned over to the Federal Reserve bankers to pay the interest on the national currency.

Property taxes pay for schools, police, fire and other municipal services.

Gasoline taxes pay for the interstate highways. Local streets and state highways are paid for via bonds, sales taxes, local gasoline and vehicle taxes / licensing fees and tolls.

Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security / SSI is paid for as a separate line item tax out of your income. All of these could be replaced by state programs.

The only purpose for the federal government under our system is to provide for a common defense and other needs which fall outside of the State's ability to provide. The only valid need would be to correct the balance between rich and poor states so every citizen has access to the same standard of living.

We don't need most of what the federal government provides. The states could easily establish investment and bond funds and we would see a huge increase in the quality and amount of service provided for the money. Its a fact that for every dollar the feds take out of a state only 5-23 cents comes back. In other words, they take out much more than they are able to give. Money earmarked for one thing is diverted to another, usually without a valid need other than enabling pork projects for legislators to use so they can pay off constituent contributors.

Its a corrupt and broken system in need of overhaul.

We were never meant to pay taxes on our income. 100 percent of the tax monies needed were meant to come from business profits and trade. Because the corporations control the government they managed to eliminate paying their fair share and put it on the backs of the public. As a result, you earn less and less, the power of your money declines and the entire system is in a slow meltdown.

The rich get richer and everyone else gets poorer. We don't need to just eliminate the current system, we need to replace it with something more stable and not geared towards screwing the middle class and the poor.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I have to ask you directly, what in your opinion should be done?
How do you suggest this be handled,
Youre the hypothetical go to guy that the country is looking towards to fix this problem and your solution is:..?

And I'm not being disrespectful, I'm being serious.

reply to post by verylowfrequency


I was clocked in excess of 125mph. 127 was what his laser unit indicated. Yes he actually took me to his car to show me.

I don't blame him for coming up with gun drawn on me. After I exited the vehicle and he had cleared me for weapons, the gun went away.

Most people don't drive that fast unless they're running from the law. I was just enjoying myself. He saw the difference, recognized my ability to control my vehicle and that I wasn't a danger to anyone, and sent me on my way.

The prosecutor wanted to trump up charges of reckless endangerment amongst other violations (is wasting finite resources really a crime? seriously) and the officer testified that I was no danger to anyone on the road, was in full control of my vehicle, and knew how fast I was driving and that no other cars were even on the road. I got a $150 ticket and traffic school. In my book, that officer deserved a klondike bar.

Wait.... they can't do that right? Isn't the Sheriff one of the highest state law enforcement authorities, such to the point where even federal agents can't touch them? The govt. can B$^% and moan all they want, but they can't legally strip him of authority right?

What ever happened to the 10th amendment? I say this sheriff start gathering the state police and start literally running these DHS agents off their state. Let them go and cry to mommy govt.

reply to post by jam321


having been to 2 of these roundups, it is just a saturation of an area with a police presence. They set up a mobile command center for processing, just like they do every holiday weekend all across the nation for drunk drivers.

They don't only select brown people. Whites, Blacks and Asians are pulled over as well, their IDs are requested, as it is law in AZ to identify yourself to a LEO if legally stopped, which they all are. When the illegals try to pass a fake, or just can't give one, they are either arrested or detained until their identity can be confirmed, respectively.

I have been stopped without having my ID and have given my name and DOB to be looked up, I've also given my DL#, so it's not like there aren't options for the legal people to use.

Before I begin, I would like to state I am for immigration. I know and understand that the country was built by immigrants who came to this country to seek a better life for themselves and their families. However, I am against illegale immigration. I view the illegale immigrants who come into the country as people who have broken the law, no mater how it is viewed, they did break the law. The argument I use is that if you can forgive a person for breaking that law, then you can forgive the person who breaks into your house, and uses it for their own purpose, you would not like it nor would you be expected to, as you would demand that justice be carried out against said person, and for them to be caught and prosecuted within the full context of the law. The immigration policies of the country are messed up yes, but there needs to be a clean up of the system. I do not believe in general anemsty or forgiving of the crimes, nor do I think that the current laws need to be revised to either allow an easier access to this country or total closure of the borders. If the federal government does nothing, then you have a virtual slave labor force. Yes they may work for next to nothing, or take low paying jobs, but what about their rights as employees? An illegale immigrant has no right that we take for granted as citizens. So what the sherriff in Arizona is doing may be questionable, he is forcing the federal government to keep this issue on their minds and in the publics eye to try to resolve it.

Under our government the powers of the federal government are limited to those which the states do not reserve unto themselves.

The feds should be using ICE / Border Control agents to run investigations and sweeps for illegals and take care of deporting them but they have completely dropped the ball. They either do not perform these tasks or do so far less than is required to make an impact on the problem.

Do people not realize that we cannot support the entire third world? If we opened the borders completely its entirely possible that 80% or more of the population of Mexico would be here within a few days. In Mexico you are either wealthy or poor, there is no in between and there is very little opportunity to climb the social / economic ladder. The opportunity does exist but there are so many people due to a culture where having as many children as possible is still the norm.

Since the feds have completely failed to enforce the immigration laws it is completely within the state's rights to do so. If the governor of Arizona was not a fed / NWO lackey they would assert the state's rights under the 10th amendment, going to the supreme court if necessary.

Ultimately, the states can do just about anything they want to regardless of the feds like or dislike. There are certain instances when the interference of the feds has been a good thing, civil rights for example but since then the feds have dictated policies unto the states which are not just, fair or legal.

The county can continue to perform these sweeps by simply adjusting the methodology to avoid accusations of racial profiling. Declaring specific areas of the county to be "high crime zones" due to the large numbers of illegal aliens living or working there is one option. When it comes down to it, the feds will lean on the state and the state will lean on the county. It will be up to the county government and the residents how far and how hard to take this fight.

Personally, were it my county I would be willing to take the fight as far as needed to make the feds back off. I would start by withholding payment of earmarked taxes collected and administered by the county for starters until ICE began to perform the task of deporting illegals to the level required. If I couldn't go after the illegals directly I would go after the businesses who hire them. I would also work with the local food stamp and welfare offices to find and prosecute any illegals collecting benefits and deny those who collect them as acknowledged illegals.

I would make the schools require English in order to participate. When the students who can't speak English go truant I would use the truancy laws to go after the illegal alien parents.

Enact strict traffic enforcement and pass a law impounding the vehicles of any illegals caught driving. Enforce number of passenger limits, riding in the back of trucks, seat belts, pollution laws and vehicle inspection.

Perform sweeps of mechanic's shops and close down any that sell inspection stickers.

Perform sweeps of laundries, restaurants, construction, landscaping, etc.

Trust me, there's numerous ways to attack the problem if the people are willing to back the Sheriff.

One way or another they would be leaving. In the back of a deportation bus or on a greyhound to find an easier city to leech off of. Link up with other counties willing to fight back and you would see a real impact on this problem.

Illegal immigrants have a lot to answer for. The massive financial drain on the economy and the tax evasion they perpetrate affect us all at some level. Being a LEGAL immigrant myself I very much resent the way these maggots play the system and achieve what took me years and thousands of dollars to do by just jumping a fence etc.

However... This idiot of a Sherriff needs to wind his bloody neck in. The guy has no right to thumb his nose at the DHS like that. I'd never heard of this amendment that allows him to carry on like that until now. Its kind of alarming to think that certain cops can just steamroll over accepted procedure and bend the laws into whatever shape they want. Cops have way too much power these days as it is, are we just now to let them make it up as they go along? Disgraceful. This guy needs to calm down and realise he cant just turn his neighbourhood into nazi germany because he feels like it.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I imagine if Arizona is anything like parts of Northern Virginia, all one would have to do is go to a 7-11 in the morning and round up the group of Hispanics drinking beer and cat-calling women, while standing out front soliciting day work.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


when you see 20 guys sitting outside of a home depot ... that is what is called a sweep for illegal immigrants ... im really not trying to incite race here ... i can see the racial profiling thing ... really i can ... but truth is 19 of those 20 are illegally in the country

Its a huge problem in Arizona ... contractors survive on finding these guys so that the hired help gets lumped in with supply cost making refinishing your basement cheaper than dirt... not to mention the profit margin for contractors who do this

It subverts free market ... as well as paying illegals like dirt... its China but in America see?

Originally posted by Erasurehead

Originally posted by BaronVonGodzilla

Originally posted by Erasurehead


The Federal government is overstepping their authority again by ordering the state of Arizona to stop enforcing the law. They are citing some racial profiling nonsense as the reason to stop it.

Illegal immigrants are breaking the law so they should be arrested and deported. Sheriff Joe Arpaio is doing his job and the people of the state support him.

At least it looks like he is not going to listen to Janet Napolitano and he open border policies.

I might've known you'd take the side of the most corrupt cop in America.

What he was doing was illegal to begin with, he is responsible for many cruelties and deaths, he is a bad man and if you really cared about this country, you'd care that what he did was illegal to begin with. But you will ignore that.

Please educate me about what "cruelties and deaths" the sheriff is responsible for.

Tell me what is illegal about enforcing immigration laws..

What is illegal about a cop stopping a random person on the street and searching them for illegal drugs on the suspicion that they look like drug users?

I mean SHEESH, the cops are just enforcing the drug laws!